Is HRT for Life???

[thewarrior23]

I was doing research and looks like men who can go on hrt (test) sometime in there 40s'. My research told me that most will use a small dose of adex to control the Estrogen sides. Research also showed me that most men will stay on hrt very long term, 20+ years as long as BW comes back good.

I say all that to ask this, so does that mean AI's really dont ever lose there effectivenss like other meds do ( heart meds ect.)????

I read one article What do we know about the mechanisms of aromatase inhibitor resistance?

It talks about how AIs lose effectiveness over time, well at least lose there effectivenss on tumors, but in HRT your not dealing ith cancerous tumors rather just an increase of estrogen from an increae in test,but like i said men will stay on adex for years with hrt with no problems..

So I ask...
Do AI's lose effectiveness over time??

 

[ojs]

Most HRT clinics use tomaxifen. And that never stops working. All it has to do is find and bind to the receptor and voila!!! The extra estrogen floats around and can do nothing.

Experienced HRT doctors, as far as I know, don't use adex. It turns your blood lipids upside down if you're on very long. And the whole point of HRT is to enhance a longer better life, not a heart attack!!

I've been on HRT for almost 12 years.

 

[teenylittlesuperguy]

I was doing research and looks like men who can go on hrt (test) sometime in there 40s'. My research told me that most will use a small dose of adex to control the Estrogen sides. Research also showed me that most men will stay on hrt very long term, 20+ years as long as BW comes back good.

I say all that to ask this, so does that mean AI's really dont ever lose there effectivenss like other meds do ( heart meds ect.)????

I read one article What do we know about the mechanisms of aromatase inhibitor resistance?

It talks about how AIs lose effectiveness over time, well at least lose there effectivenss on tumors, but in HRT your not dealing ith cancerous tumors rather just an increase of estrogen from an increae in test,but like i said men will stay on adex for years with hrt with no problems..

So I ask...
Do AI's lose effectiveness over time??

The problem with treating estrogen dependent tumors with an AI is that the tumor will fight back. So the Ai loses effectiveness against the tumor because the tumor is evolving and adjusting the AI therapy. I do not believe that the same problem presents itself in cases of hypogonadal HRT.

Just my opinion though. I am also interested in a response.

 

[Kaladryn]

Most HRT clinics use tomaxifen. And that never stops working. All it has to do is find and bind to the receptor and voila!!! The extra estrogen floats around and can do nothing.

Experienced HRT doctors, as far as I know, don't use adex. It turns your blood lipids upside down if you're on very long. And the whole point of HRT is to enhance a longer better life, not a heart attack!!

I've been on HRT for almost 12 years.

Nolvadex comes with several risks, blood clots, cancer, and, believe it or not, there is a study showing nolvadex decreases IQ.

3rd generation AIs are only hard on lipids if you lower E2 too much, getting the dosage just right is the key.

 

[ojs]

Nolvadex comes with several risks, blood clots, cancer, and, believe it or not, there is a study showing nolvadex decreases IQ.

3rd generation AIs are only hard on lipids if you lower E2 too much, getting the dosage just right is the key.

My lipid profile goes to the toilet after being on .25mg EOD of Adex for 12 weeks. What's E2?
...I'm always learning.

 

[Jello]

My lipid profile goes to the toilet after being on .25mg EOD of Adex for 12 weeks. What's E2?
...I'm always learning.

It's estradiol.

Estrogen The  search For Understanding

 

[ojs]

It's estradiol.

Estrogen Thesyntherol search For Understanding

Thanks.

3rd generation AIs are only hard on lipids if you lower E2 too much, getting the dosage just right is the key.

So how exactly do you accomplish this? It seems you would need weekly blood work. I could see using Adex while on cycle. But not for years at a time.

....I would use Nolvadex on HRT.

 

[thewarrior23]

as one guy said the AI will effedctiveness with a tumor over time, this I get but for lets say someone who is using gear adn just never comes off your not fighting a tumor...so in that case do you think as long as your on gear using an AI your g2g or do you think that lets ssay 5 years of straight gear, the the AI will no longer work with your body b/c your body found a way to upregulate things or something???

 

[PsyT]

OJS, how much nolvadex do you use in ratio to test?

I just got on 10mg nolvadex ED and dropped my AI dosage down to 10mg aromasin EOD. Im on 300mg of test though so clearly not HRT. My joints feel better on the nolva/aromasin combination.

 

[Researchstop]

as one guy said the AI will effedctiveness with a tumor over time, this I get but for lets say someone who is using gear adn just never comes off your not fighting a tumor...so in that case do you think as long as your on gear using an AI your g2g or do you think that lets ssay 5 years of straight gear, the the AI will no longer work with your body b/c your body found a way to upregulate things or something???

No, AI's don't lose effectiveness enough to make difference in "most" men. There are exceptions I'm sure, but I don't know any. I know men who have used an AI to raise their test levels since 2000. There are several studies 5 to 10 years in length, some with over 4000 subjects, showing the opposite of that study posted.

 

[ojs]

OJS, how much nolvadex do you use in ratio to test?

I just got on 10mg nolvadex ED and dropped my AI dosage down to 10mg aromasin EOD. Im on 300mg of test though so clearly not HRT. My joints feel better on the nolva/aromasin combination.

There are plenty of members on this board that are more current and know more about this than I do. My approach is pretty old school.

If it were me on 300mg of test, 10mg of Nolva and 10mg of Aromasin EOD, I'd drop the Aromasin for about a week. And what I'd be looking for is whether the sock lines on my ankles get deeper or not. If they get deeper, I'd put the Aromasin back in. If they didn't get deeper I'd just leave it out.

I always prefer the K.I.S.S. system when it's applicable over using too scientific an approach. Science is great for talking about the general population. But all too often it doesn't apply to a particular individual.

 

[strongrhino]

I really don't believe a couple hundred mg's of test a month (usual HRT) will lose effectiveness over time. The way to monitor this is through bloodwork checking specifically test levels and test/epi test ratios. The numbers may change as we age and natural production halts- that is when adjustment of dosages are made. Also frequent prostate and cholesterol numbers must be monitored as well as BP. True Hrt dosages are quite low guys with some getting that Androgel or patch which is crap.

 

[maldorf]

Taking a true HRT dose of 100-150 mg/wk you wont need an AI. The idea behind a true HRT regime is to put you into the normal range of a male and if this is the case estrogen is going to be under control. Its when you push it and demand to put your total test outside the normal limit that the estrogen starts to creep up. Ive seen 2 HRT docs and neither one has me on any kind of AI or nolvadex etc. My estrogen is normal since im only taking 120 mg/wk.

 

[ojs]

I really don't believe a couple hundred mg's of test a month (usual HRT) will lose effectiveness over time. The way to monitor this is through bloodwork checking specifically test levels and test/epi test ratios. The numbers may change as we age and natural production halts- that is when adjustment of dosages are made. Also frequent prostate and cholesterol numbers must be monitored as well as BP. True Hrt dosages are quite low guys with some getting that Androgel or patch which is crap.

I've been on prescription HRT for almost 12 years. The dosage is based on your blood work. It can be anywhere from 100gm a month to 400mg E5D. My prescription is 400mg E5D.

I get my blood work done twice a year. I go from doing a cycle right into HRT. There's no PCT for me.

 

[renewlyf]

Looks like it is working well!

I've been on prescription HRT for almost 12 years. The dosage is based on your blood work. It can be anywhere from 100gm a month to 400mg E5D. My prescription is 400mg E5D.

I get my blood work done twice a year. I go from doing a cycle right into HRT. There's no PCT for me.

I'm 44 and working toward where you are OJS. Your and insperation and a valuble member to this board.

 

[PsyT]

OJS, whats your test levels at (total and free) if you dont mind me asking?

 

[strongrhino]

I've been on prescription HRT for almost 12 years. The dosage is based on your blood work. It can be anywhere from 100gm a month to 400mg E5D. My prescription is 400mg E5D.

I get my blood work done twice a year. I go from doing a cycle right into HRT. There's no PCT for me.

exactly. I "self administer" HRT at 300mg En/week get blood done every 6 months at ANY LAB TEST and I am in the high normal range good psa, cholesterol, and BP in check. At 42 still gaining size no PCT at all. Balls are big and full.

 

[ojs]

OJS, whats your test levels at (total and free) if you dont mind me asking?

When? Off everything? On HRT? Or on cycle?

 

[ScottMcD1]

When? Off everything? On HRT? Or on cycle?

Well if you have them all... then I'd be interested.

 

[Kaladryn]

Taking a true HRT dose of 100-150 mg/wk you wont need an AI. The idea behind a true HRT regime is to put you into the normal range of a male and if this is the case estrogen is going to be under control. Its when you push it and demand to put your total test outside the normal limit that the estrogen starts to creep up. Ive seen 2 HRT docs and neither one has me on any kind of AI or nolvadex etc. My estrogen is normal since im only taking 120 mg/wk.

Many people who have taken a lot of AAS develope "hyper-active aromatase" and may require a VERY low dose AI on HRT (.25mg adex E3D or less). Maldorf is correct, true HRT is 100-150mg/week. 200mg+ per week is definitely going to be supraphysiological, meaning you are taking low dose AAS, not doing HRT.