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JUST a though....

Got Juice

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Kilo Klub Member
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I was laying in the tanning bed tonight bored because they were playing country music so i had the volume down, so i started to let my mind wonder.
:D
i always have been told since day one, first thing after your workouts immediately drink a protein shake and some carbs, etc.

so i started thinking into it a bit and honestly it sounds good, like you are replenisihng your fatigued muscles and filling them with the good stuff they need, protein. if you get this into your body say 30 minutes after your workout is your muscles really going to be able to absorb the food your giving them and actually BENEFIT from it?

i mean in my opinion they are going to be so fatigued and not really in a "recovery" phase yet, i just wonder it it matters that much.. i was just thinking as long as you eat sometime before bed you would probably not see much of a difference in overall results and maybe the post workout drink is a little over exaggerated. im sure some smart a$$ will come on here and post a 2 page reply to why im 100% wrong, but thats what i want.. haha:D

anyways, just a little topic to keep the boards flowing and throwing out some ideas,

later,
 
I'm not going to give you any scientific b.s., but I can say makes sense to me. I always consume @ least some sort of carbs/protein on my way out of the gym. I think the entire reasons "the experts" suggest consuming calories immediately following workouts has to do w/ transport of whatever u ingest. When your bustin ass in the gym your also depleting yourself of the basic valuble muscle building elements like carbs, fats, and protein. Not to mention vit. and minerals. To me it just makes sense to me to feed your body when it's hungry.
 
The Importance of Post Workout Nutrition

By Dr. John M Berardi, Ph.D.
First published at www.fitdv.com, Apr 2002.



Invest Your Time Wisely

You don't need to be a resource management specialist to know that time is the most valuable finite resource that you have. And as you well know, there's a very limited amount of it to go around. So if you're smart, you'll figure out ways to get the greatest return on the investment of your time.

While this may be well recognized and applied in many aspects of modern life, it confuses me as to why people seem to ignore this when it comes to their exercise training. From what I see on a daily basis, it's clear to me that most people in the gym are wasting their time investment. They're spending precious hours engaged in strength or endurance training programs that yield little or no results? Need proof? When was the last time someone in your gym made any noticeable physical progress? In fact, when was the last time that you made any significant physical progress? Exercise training has the potential to yield huge returns on any given time investment. Isn't it a shame that most people don't ever see this magnitude of return?

Despite this disappointing reality, I'm here to tell you that hope is not lost. In fact, there's a very easy way to capitalize on your investment. You see, in most cases the exercise is not the problem. The problem is that people fail to invest in the other important commodity that, in combination with exercise, yields the biggest returns. They're buying the cart without the horse, the lemonade stand without the lemonade. They're spending their time focused on only the exercise program while ignoring the importance of a sound nutritional program.

Now I could write a dozen articles focused on straightening out the nutritional problems of the world. But those articles are for another day. In this article today, I intend to focus on what is, in my opinion, the most important aspect of exercise nutrition - eating during the post-workout period. The knowledge of how to eat during this time will maximize your efforts in the gym and yield the biggest returns on your time investment.

Remodeling and The Post-Workout Period

Exercise, both strength and endurance training, is responsible for countless health and aesthetic benefits. However the exercise itself is a significant physiological stressor. Perceived symptoms of this "stress" are often mild and include muscle soreness, the need for extra sleep, and an increased appetite. These symptoms let us know that the exercise has depleted the muscle's fuel resources, caused some minor damage, and that the muscle is in need of replenishment and repair. While the words depletion and damage may sound like negative things, they're not if they only stick around for a short period of time. You see, these changes allow the muscle to adapt by getting better at the exercise demands placed on it. Therefore if you're doing endurance exercise, the muscle will become depleted and damaged in the short run, but in the long run it will super compensate, building itself up to be a better aerobic machine. And if strength training is your thing, you'll tear down you're weaker muscle fibers in favor of building up bigger, stronger ones. In all cases, exercise essentially tears down old, less adapted muscle in order to rebuild more functional muscle. This phenomenon is called remodeling.

While the remodeling process is much more complex than I can describe here, it's important for me to emphasize that this remodeling only takes place if the muscle is provided the right raw materials. If I plan on remodeling my home I can hire a guy to tear down a couple of walls, a guy to clean up the mess, and a guy to come in and rebuild better walls than the ones that came down. But if I don't give that guy any bricks, how's he going to get anything done? If I don't give him the bricks, all I'll have in the end is a much smaller, unfinished house.

The same holds true with exercise remodeling. In particular, during the exercise bout and immediately following it, exercise breaks down our muscle carbohydrate stores and our muscle protein structures. Then, the immune system comes in to clean up the mess. And finally, signals are generated to tell the body to rebuild. However, as I hope you can now see, without the proper protein and carbohydrate raw materials, this building can't take place. You'll be left with muscles that never reach their potential.

So with this analogy, I hope it's obvious that this post-exercise period is not a time to take lightly. Remember, you spent a significant amount of time in the gym breaking down the muscle for a good reason. You want it to be better adapted to future demands. So to realize full return on your time investment, you need to give the body the raw materials it needs, namely protein and carbohydrates.

Feeding Hungry Muscles

As I mentioned earlier, all trainees (male or female), regardless of their chosen mode of exercise, must take their post-exercise nutrition seriously in order to provide the muscle with the raw materials it needs. As all types of exercise use carbohydrates for energy, muscle carbohydrate depletion is inevitable. Therefore a post-workout meal high in carbohydrates is required to refill muscle carbohydrate/energy stores. However any ol' amount of carbohydrates will not do. You need to consume enough carbohydrates to promote a substantial insulin release. Insulin is the hormone responsible for shuttling carbohydrates and amino acids into the muscle. In doing this, carbohydrate resynthesis is accelerated and protein balance becomes positive, leading to rapid repair of the muscle tissue. Therefore, by consuming a large amount of carbohydrates, you will promote a large insulin release, increase glycogen storage, and increase protein repair. Research has shown that a carbohydrate intake of 0.8 to 1.2 grams per 1 kilogram of body weight maximizes glycogen synthesis and accelerates protein repair. However, unless you've had a very long, intense workout, 1.2g/kg may be a bit excessive as excess carbohydrate can be converted to bodyfat. Therefore I recommend 0.8g of carbohydrate per 1 kilogram of body weight for speeding up muscle carbohydrate replenishment while preventing excess fat gain (van Loon et al 2000a).

In addition, since muscle protein is degraded during exercise, the addition of a relatively large amount of protein to your post exercise meal is necessary to help rebuild the structural aspects of the muscle. After exercise, the body decreases its rate of protein synthesis and increases its rate of protein breakdown. However, the provision of protein and amino acid solutions has been shown to reverse this trend, increasing protein synthesis and decreasing protein breakdown. Researchers have used anywhere from 0.2g - 0.4g of protein per 1 kilogram of body weight to demonstrate the effectiveness of adding protein to a post-workout carbohydrate drink (van Loon et al 2000b, Roy et al 1998). As an increased consumption of the essential amino acids may lead to a more positive protein balance, 0.4g/kg may be better than 0.2g/kg.

While your post-workout feeding should be rich protein and carbohydrate, this meal should be fat free. The consumption of essential fats is one of the most overlooked areas of daily nutritional intake but during the post workout period, eating fat can actually decrease the effectiveness of your post-workout beverage. Since fat slows down transit through the stomach, eating fat during the post workout period may slow the digestion and absorption of carbohydrates and proteins. As your post workout feeding should be designed to promote the most rapid delivery of carbohydrates and protein to your depleted muscles, fats should be avoided during this time.

Finally, another important factor to consider is the timing of this meal. It is absolutely crucial that you consume your post-workout meal immediately after exercise. As indicated above, after exercise, the muscles are depleted and require an abundance of protein and carbohydrate. In addition, during this time, the muscles are biochemically "primed" for nutrient uptake. This phenomenon is commonly known as the "window of opportunity". Over the course of the recovery period, this window gradually closes and by failing to eat immediately after exercise, you diminish your chances of promoting full recovery. To illustrate how quickly this window closes, research has shown that consuming a post-exercise meal immediately after working out is superior to consuming one only 1 hour later. In addition, consuming one 1 hour later is superior to consuming one 3 hours later (Tipton et al 2001, Levenhagen et al 2001). If you wait too long, glycogen replenishment and protein repair will be compromised.

In conclusion, when you decided to start exercising you decided to give up a specific amount of time per week in the interest of getting better, physically. However, if you haven't spent the necessary time thinking about post-exercise nutrition, you're missing much of the benefit that comes with exercising. I assure you that once you start paying attention to this variable in the recovery equation, your time in the gym will be much better invested.

Whole Food vs. Nutritional Supplementation

Anchored firmly atop their calorie-counting soapbox, nutritionists have traditionally asserted that whole food always trumps supplemental nutrition. For them I have only one sentiment:

Always…it is a meaningless word. -Oscar Wilde

While I wholeheartedly believe that complete, unbleached, untreated, and unprocessed whole food should form the basis of any sound nutritional regimen, there are some instances in which supplements can actually be superior to whole food. In the case of post-exercise nutrition, I believe that liquid supplemental nutrition is far superior to whole food for the following reasons.

Liquid meals are palatable and digestible

Typically, after intense exercise, most people complain that eating a big meal is difficult. This is understandable as the exercise stress creates a situation where the hunger centers are all but shut down. However, as you now know, it's absolutely critical that you eat if you want to remodel the muscle, enlarge the muscle, or recover from the exercise. Fortunately liquid supplemental formulas are palatable, easy to consume, and can be quite nutrient dense, providing all the nutrition you need at this time. In addition, since these formulas are structurally simple (I'll save the biochemistry for another article), the gastrointestinal tract has no difficulty processing them. Your stomach will thank you for this.

Liquid meals have a fast absorption profile, whole food is just too slow

The latest research has demonstrated that liquid supplemental formulas containing fast digesting protein (whey hydrolysates and isolates) and carbohydrates (dextrose and maltodextrin) are absorbed more quickly than whole food meals. To put this into perspective, a liquid post-exercise formula may be fully absorbed within 30 to 60 minutes, providing much needed muscle nourishment by this time. However, a slower digesting solid food meal may take 2 to 3 hours to fully reach the muscle.

Liquid meals take advantage of the "window of opportunity", whole foods may miss it

The faster the protein and carbohydrates get to the muscle, the better your chances for muscle building and recovery. Current research has demonstrated that subjects receiving nutrients within one hour after exercise recover more quickly than subjects receiving nutrients three hours after exercise. Liquid nutrition is making more sense, isn't it?

Liquid meals are better for nutrient targeting

During the post exercise period, specific nutrients maximize your recovery. These include an abundance of water, high glycemic index carbohydrates, and certain amino acids (in specific ratios). It's also best to avoid fat during this time. So the only way to ensure that these nutrients are present in the right amounts is to formulate a specific liquid blend. Whole foods may miss the mark.

Post-Exercise Choices

So your workout is over and it's time to reach for your post workout meal. What do you reach for? Here are a few examples of good post-workout choices in order of effectiveness.

1) A specifically formulated recovery drink

1 serving Biotest Surge - (305 calories) - 25g Protein, 50g Carbohydrate, 0.5g Fat


2) A homemade recovery drink

1 serving whey protein + 2 servings Gatorade - (369 calories) - 25g protein, 66g Carbohydrate, 0.5g Fat


3) A whole food recovery meal

12 oz of skim milk + 1 serving Vector - (358 calories) - 18g protein, 65g Carbohydrate, 2.8g Fat

References

Levenhagen et al. (2001). Postexercise nutrient intake timing in humans is critical to recovery of leg glucose and protein homeostasis. Am.J.Physiol Endocrinol.Metab. 280(6): E982-993.

Tipton et al. (2001). Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am.J.Physiol Endocrinol.Metab. 281(2): E197-206.

Roy et al. (1998). Influence of differing macronutrient intakes on muscle glycogen resynthesis after resistance exercise. JAP. 84(3): 890-896.

Van Loon et al. (2000a). Maximizing postexercise muscle glycogen synthesis: carbohydrate supplementation and the application of amino acid or protein hydrolysate mixtures. Am J Clin Nutrition. 72(1): 106-111.

Van Loon et al. (2000b). Ingestion of protein hydrolysate and amino acid-carbohydrate mixtures increases postexercise plasma insulin responses in men. J Nutr. 130(10): 2508-2513.
 
chocolate gaterade hmmmm maybe i need to invest in synthetek's protein
 
Alright this is all true, but i have found my workout maxamized by drinking an INTRA-workout drink. I have done this for a year now with great success. Funny, i do it precontest and the scale doesnt move. I drop 8-10% bodyfat and the scale doesnt move, i musta added some muscle on a DIET haha.

First go around was last year when i did 40g dextrose + BCAAs + a little whey+creatine during my workout. Pumps were sustained alot longer, strength maintained alot longer during my workouts with fatigue onsetting a LOT slower than normal.

This year i am using SizeOn by the company i work for (gaspari). It was formulated to be taken DURING your workout. It has a special carb (which i cant devulge til we get the patent) that is absorbed quickly and is extremly efficient at loading glycogen, a newly developed form of creatine that is having studies done right now to prove its superiority to all other forms, and ATP disodium (if you dont know ATP you shouldnt be on here haha). These are the ones i feel are MOST important to the products effectiveness, but there are others that contribute such as taurine, insulin mimicers, etc... I add some BCAAs on my own to this formula and sip on it through my workout. Strength stays HIGH entire workout, pumps are just SICK and full and last for over an hour (i have to be careful i go over an hour without even noticing).

Now post workout i take in a 50g whey shake with a little dextrose, but i gotta say i am BIG on INTRA workout shakes. I feel they are insanely effective, there are alot of guys who also believe in this, and SizeOn is the first formula specified to use during your workout so there isnt a ton of people with experience in this.... but i can tell you this.... the feedback we have had is nothing short of amazing. We get over 50 calls a day just telling us how much they love the product, and i havent seen a bad word spoken on it yet (knock on wood). Now im not here to promote the product, but rather to state IMO the importance of an intra-workout shake. Give it a try for a week or two.... see if im right... decide for yourself... il almost promise you will love me for it... everyone i have had try it were happy they did :D
 
I have been using what you call INTRA workout drinks for 3 months now and its amazing how much more mass I've added and how pumped I get throughout my workouts. Usually use a couple of scoops N Large 2. Good stuff!
 
I shake up a 32oz gatorade with 5 grams of creatine during a workout. I'm a very big believer in "give your body what it asks for" so after a workout (anywhere from 20 minutes up to an hour) I will get extremely hungry and I will eat then...HUGE. I feel that's my body's cells telling me "we need nutrients". If I don't get that meal, I will wake up the next morning tired and fatigued.

p.s. TP4U, I get bloated from creatine... I mean my stomach get's huge and gassy. Have you ever gotten this, and where can I get some creatine that won't have this effect? I've tried a few that claim they don't have the bloating but they do. PM if you want.
 
OuchThatHurts said:
I shake up a 32oz gatorade with 5 grams of creatine during a workout. I'm a very big believer in "give your body what it asks for" so after a workout (anywhere from 20 minutes up to an hour) I will get extremely hungry and I will eat then...HUGE. I feel that's my body's cells telling me "we need nutrients". If I don't get that meal, I will wake up the next morning tired and fatigued.

p.s. TP4U, I get bloated from creatine... I mean my stomach get's huge and gassy. Have you ever gotten this, and where can I get some creatine that won't have this effect? I've tried a few that claim they don't have the bloating but they do. PM if you want.

OK well since im paid to know this shit... i can explain a lil if you want more PM me. Creatine Gluconate is basicly designed by Bruce Kneller, and it is the fastest acting and longest lasting form ever created. We are currently paying for a big study to prove its superiority to ethyl ester. There is also insulin mimicers in there as well as a bunch of other ingredients that work together to really make this product tha shyt. If your at the arnie il give you a killer deal if you wanna try it. Lemon Ice is the best flavor by far haha. Sip on it during your workout and ul feel the full effects, iv learned if i try to chug it i get a lil bloated stomach feelin, but sippin it works like a charm. the more water you use, the better it works
 
TP4U,

I tried the SixeOn (Berry, they were out of lemon). HOLY SHIT! Amazing stuff! I felt like I had a full body pump the entire rest of the night after my 7pm workout (legs/back). I also had good energy and strength on every set. Good stuff! I don't know what's in there but I know I will being using this stuff from now on! Thanks for the suggestion! That's the first time I've taken an OTC supp that you can actually feel on the first serving. Tell me a bit about Gaspari's other products.

Thanks TP4U!!!!!!!
 
cut the shit... where can I get some of this stuff now???

hahaha

[edit] I'm joking but I loves the creatine... but hates the bloat
 
Last edited:
It seems to me that pre-workout nutrition can be as important as post-workout. If a person makes sure that they have a full-enough pre-workout meal, they won't be starved for calories, protein, and carb. immediately after the workout. The pre-workout meal should last through the workout, thus filling in the time gap between the end of the workout and the first post-workout meal. This means that assuming an able pre-workout meal, the post-workout meal only needs to be digesting by the time the pre-workout meal is done. So, depending on the pre-workout meal, some may want their post-workout meal immediately after the workout, or perhaps later, like half an hour.

Just my take on timing.
 
VNV,

I was just thinking the same thing the other day. I do that now. Now that I drink intra w/o I don't rush home to have my post w/o shake. Just take my time and get it in about 30 minutes after my last set....
 
n4dmoney said:
TP4U,

I tried the SixeOn (Berry, they were out of lemon). HOLY SHIT! Amazing stuff! I felt like I had a full body pump the entire rest of the night after my 7pm workout (legs/back). I also had good energy and strength on every set. Good stuff! I don't know what's in there but I know I will being using this stuff from now on! Thanks for the suggestion! That's the first time I've taken an OTC supp that you can actually feel on the first serving. Tell me a bit about Gaspari's other products.

Thanks TP4U!!!!!!!

No sweat bud. If you wanna know more about how it works shoot me an email [email protected] make sure you let me know who you are. Its in such high demand nobody can seem to keep it in stock. Your missin out on the lemon tho lol.
 

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