Masteron causing joint pain?

[pesty4077]

Try dropping the Masteron at three times a week and replace with same dose with NPP. See if that helps.

 

[cmryan]

LATS what about using something like raloxifene, it’s an estrogen agonist/antagonist. It actually increases bone density so it’s not antagonistic in bone. I don’t know if that means it’s agonist in joints though...maybe somebody smarter can chime in...

Tamoxifen kills my joints even at 20mg day but raloxifene at 60mg/day is fine. Only ralox is prescribed for osteoporosis, not tamox

Is there any data indicating if it's better than nolvadex in regards to blood clots?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Is there any data indicating if it's better than nolvadex in regards to blood clots?

Ralox is only one prescribed long term. They aren’t prescribing tamox long term. I’m not sure if that is only because of the blood clot issue or not though.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

You beat me to it. Raloxifene has been shown in multiple studies to benefit healthy and supple collagen. I'll link them later.

Word! I’d like to hear what you think. Here’s a study that is semi promising. They concluded ralox doesn’t increase synthesis of type I collagen in tendons/ligaments which accounts for 90% of tendons/ligaments but it does increase type III collagen which only accounts for around 10% but relates to elasticity. While increasing type III collagen had been related to DECREASES in tendon strength, the researchers note that since the subjects were post menopausal women the raloxifene could have just been increasing type III collagen to normal levels and this wouldn’t create tendon weakness.

https://www.ors.org/Transactions/56/1117.pdf

 

[goback2013]

Primo seems to have a detrimental effect on my joints. I don't know if it's causing any damage but my joints were extremely tight. Foolishly I went against your advice and was running 600mg following the shortsighted mindset of, I have it why not use it? Dropped the Primo to 300mg and the joint issues have pretty much subsided all together.

I see the same with DHB... knees tighten up after a week of 200mg...
it seems my body reacts best to .. 10mg of test, trest, injectable dht each ed.
thinking of trying GH at 1-1.5iu per day.. but for now, i'm feeling good on the above self-prescribed hrt protocol.

 

[LATS]

Yeah.. we all have different reactions to various compounds.. I can run primo at higher amounts and have no joint issues.. others say they get issues.. of course many things change if you already have joint issues.. I have bad arthritis in my left shoulder.. so mast, lately, is causing me issues.. where as before it didn't.. age and wear and tear can exacerbate the compounds effect more..

 

[LATS]

Try dropping the Masteron at three times a week and replace with same dose with NPP. See if that helps.

Yeah I thought of that.. but npp.. as much as I love it.. always nails my little Irishman.. and momma Lats is a daily girl.. she hates npp

 

[pickapeck]

Ralox is only one prescribed long term. They aren’t prescribing tamox long term. I’m not sure if that is only because of the blood clot issue or not though.

I'm older so in the three decades around 1980s through 2000s Nolvadex was prescrin=bed long term for women in remission for breast cancer and to women with the bra gene variants that predisposed them to breast cancer. These new improved drugs pop up frequently through the decades especially when the old ones go off patent.

 

[pickapeck]

Word! I’d like to hear what you think. Here’s a study that is semi promising. They concluded ralox doesn’t increase synthesis of type I collagen in tendons/ligaments which accounts for 90% of tendons/ligaments but it does increase type III collagen which only accounts for around 10% but relates to elasticity. While increasing type III collagen had been related to DECREASES in tendon strength, the researchers note that since the subjects were post menopausal women the raloxifene could have just been increasing type III collagen to normal levels and this wouldn’t create tendon weakness.

https://www.ors.org/Transactions/56/1117.pdf

Someone should put these old women on rolox on the step mill with a sugar pill control group and see who pops an achilles tendon first.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Someone should put these old women on rolox on the step mill with a sugar pill control group and see who pops an achilles tendon first.

I know right, let’s get those oldies cranking out some strict military presses. I want to see them rupturing blood veins in their eyes they’re hammering it so hard. Might as well put them on hgh and testosterone just like us too...for science... lol

 

[xpoc]

OK I have a confession. I am not longer just a TRT guy. I have never used anything other than my Dr. scripted test at 200mg per week. (OK occasionally I would bump up to 240 for a few weeks at a time). Well I did a bunch of research and decided to include a TRT PLUS run for 10 weeks. The "PLUS" I decided was primo at 400 per week. So the only 2 substances I am taking are test x 200 and primo x 400. No Hcg at this time and I dropped my AI. I went and had my blood work done after 6 weeks of using primo. The big takeaways: HDL went from 60 to 28. Estrogen went from 34 to undetectable (it says < 5). My joints ache like a SOB. Gains are meh.... I started at 188 and now weigh 191 but obviously that fluctuates day to day. I will say I am just as lean or a smidge leaner so adding a few lean pounds is significant since I am north of 50. But the risk outweighs the reward so I will likely not do it again.

 

[Type-IIx]

OK I have a confession. I am not longer just a TRT guy. I have never used anything other than my Dr. scripted test at 200mg per week. (OK occasionally I would bump up to 240 for a few weeks at a time). Well I did a bunch of research and decided to include a TRT PLUS run for 10 weeks. The "PLUS" I decided was primo at 400 per week. So the only 2 substances I am taking are test x 200 and primo x 400. No Hcg at this time and I dropped my AI. I went and had my blood work done after 6 weeks of using primo. The big takeaways: HDL went from 60 to 28. Estrogen went from 34 to undetectable (it says < 5). My joints ache like a SOB. Gains are meh.... I started at 188 and now weigh 191 but obviously that fluctuates day to day. I will say I am just as lean or a smidge leaner so adding a few lean pounds is significant since I am north of 50. But the risk outweighs the reward so I will likely not do it again.

Bro not wanting to change your mind, just consider that you may have had different results with more research. TNE to help with the estro and dial it in, with consideration of the short term lipid and largely reversible cardiac changes. Everyone has different risk tolerance (and it should go down dramatically with age).

 

[xpoc]

Bro not wanting to change your mind, just consider that you may have had different results with more research. TNE to help with the estro and dial it in, with consideration of the short term lipid and largely reversible cardiac changes. Everyone has different risk tolerance (and it should go down dramatically with age).

Hey man I sent you a PM. I know a lot about training (been at it since 1984) but I don't know jack about anabolics. I have the TRT thing down pretty good, but outside of that I only know things in generalities from what I read here.

 

[Type-IIx]

Just now seeing you've been lifting since the eighties like a bad ass my risk tolerance would be zero since any cardiac changes and lipid changes could be VERY VERY bad. I wouldn't stray from TRT.

 

[xpoc]

Just now seeing you've been lifting since the eighties like a bad ass my risk tolerance would be zero since any cardiac changes and lipid changes could be VERY VERY bad. I wouldn't stray from TRT.

yeah thats my plan i guess. unfortunately ;-(

 

[pickapeck]

OK I have a confession. I am not longer just a TRT guy. I have never used anything other than my Dr. scripted test at 200mg per week. (OK occasionally I would bump up to 240 for a few weeks at a time). Well I did a bunch of research and decided to include a TRT PLUS run for 10 weeks. The "PLUS" I decided was primo at 400 per week. So the only 2 substances I am taking are test x 200 and primo x 400. No Hcg at this time and I dropped my AI. I went and had my blood work done after 6 weeks of using primo. The big takeaways: HDL went from 60 to 28. Estrogen went from 34 to undetectable (it says < 5). My joints ache like a SOB. Gains are meh.... I started at 188 and now weigh 191 but obviously that fluctuates day to day. I will say I am just as lean or a smidge leaner so adding a few lean pounds is significant since I am north of 50. But the risk outweighs the reward so I will likely not do it again.

In my experience I need more aromatizables in there with Primo in the mix. You need some estrogen for good lipid profile and healthy joints. I would do 300-400 test and 300 primo instead of what you are doing.

 

[Drax]

I shall now refer to my deca as: Jointbolon, and mast shall now be deemed as: Serratuscrampteron.

...for what it's worth, all dht derived gear (with the exception of drol <3 ) has given me extreme cramps everywhere. And sometimes randomly. Can't use them. I suck, I know already.

 

[warlock]

In my experience I need more aromatizables in there with Primo in the mix. You need some estrogen for good lipid profile and healthy joints. I would do 300-400 test and 300 primo instead of what you are doing.

a ratio of 1 to 1 (test/primo) considerably lowered my E2. I think 300mg test and 200mg of primo would be a better option than 300mg test/300mg primo, at least for me.

 

[BIGMURPH]

I know masteron doesn't " directly " lower estrogen.. but more along the lines of blocks or compete with it in specific tissue or receptors.. that being we also know that estrogen receptors play a part in joint health of cartilage etc in the joints.. could estrogen cause these receptors to not do their job in regards to joint health.. ?

Lately I've been having joint issues.. nothing new.. im fossilized.. but lately it's been in joints that usually never bother me..
now, I am a fan of masteron and primo.. I have upped my mast a bit the last couple months .. but still only 300mgs a week.. but my test is also at 300mgs.. so even though I'd be willing to bet my e2 is in decent range I have to wonder if the mast may be " blocking" the estro in my joints from doing its job..

Interesting outlook it definitely dries out your joints and body im more familiar with primo and they don't work the same but both definitely dry me out physically dehydration and I depend upon coconut water to keep me hydrated plus losing the water retention from e2 and drying joints I get it in my elbows and shoulders.
I believe that it definitely pulls water out of the body I believe just threw hydration it might help vita coco 32oz a day is my savior

Good luck and good gains brother hope that you get better I hate dry joints probably why I love nandrolone lol

 

[LATS]

OK I have a confession. I am not longer just a TRT guy. I have never used anything other than my Dr. scripted test at 200mg per week. (OK occasionally I would bump up to 240 for a few weeks at a time). Well I did a bunch of research and decided to include a TRT PLUS run for 10 weeks. The "PLUS" I decided was primo at 400 per week. So the only 2 substances I am taking are test x 200 and primo x 400. No Hcg at this time and I dropped my AI. I went and had my blood work done after 6 weeks of using primo. The big takeaways: HDL went from 60 to 28. Estrogen went from 34 to undetectable (it says < 5). My joints ache like a SOB. Gains are meh.... I started at 188 and now weigh 191 but obviously that fluctuates day to day. I will say I am just as lean or a smidge leaner so adding a few lean pounds is significant since I am north of 50. But the risk outweighs the reward so I will likely not do it again.

The takeaway to some of this is pretty obvious.. I love primo.. one of my favorites by far.. but the " safest" route for some of us may be to just use as much test as can be tolerated without having to use a anti e.. and keeping the test / estro ratio intact.. so for many that may just be 300mgs of test and some gh.. again adding in some things now and again may not hurt.. but things crushing the hdl will have to go bye bye.. most studies show test having the least impact on hdl.. as long as a anti e is not used.. and yes great gains can be made using a mere 300mgs of test and gh.. rotate in some " sane" insulin use every now and then for ypu go getters and you have a decent.. " safe" cycle.. believe it or not this is used way more often in the off season by some pretty sizeable guys..