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Mike Israetel volume reccomendations

pesty4077

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Where, in the past 4 pages, have you read anyone say "well it worked for Levrone and _______" ???
Everyone here has basically said, EVERYTHING WORKS.

Mike looks terrible and the vast majority of his audience are not bodybuilders, they are newbie if not very intermediate lifters juuust getting into lifting.
They often dont know intensity (being they are very new to lifting) and therefore RIR works best because they have no idea how to "train hard."
Listening to him debate Jordan Peters was terrible. I also dont know a single person who he helped thats worth a damn.
That is why I posted that link of him talking about protein. All his minions, who look like crap, saying you don't need to eat more then 1.6 grams of protein per kg. For who? Not for people who want any sustainable muscle size, that is for sure.

I made a comment I would lose muscle if I ate only that much protein. One of his minions then replied I don't know what I am talking about and Mike knows better. I then told him I would take my 42 years of training and knowing myself over anything Mike would tell me about how much protein I need.

These people would jump off a cliff if these gurus told them. They have no common sense and never question when it doesn't sound right. Nobody out there is 100% right about everything, but these people think they are Gods, hence believe anything.
 

Type-IIx

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That is why I posted that link of him talking about protein. All his minions, who look like crap, saying you don't need to eat more then 1.6 grams of protein per kg. For who? Not for people who want any sustainable muscle size, that is for sure.

I made a comment I would lose muscle if I ate only that much protein. One of his minions then replied I don't know what I am talking about and Mike knows better. I then told him I would take my 42 years of training and knowing myself over anything Mike would tell me about how much protein I need.

These people would jump off a cliff if these gurus told them. They have no common sense and never question when it doesn't sound right. Nobody out there is 100% right about everything, but these people think they are Gods, hence believe anything.
Agree strongly.

Especially for mitigating muscle protein breakdown (catabolism) and enhancing body composition and fat loss while providing for basic metabolism, higher protein intakes are required. Now while I agree with a view that AAS use actually reduces protein requirements, this is inapposite the subject matter here (btw, insulin increases protein requirements in my view; stil unrelated).

The Morton, et al. meta-analysis on this matter (protein requirements) on which Israetel so strongly relies was comprised mainly of data on the acute effects in skeletal muscle protein synthesis (what about all of the other functions and tissues that use protein?), and was not comprised of subjects that were in contest preparation for bodybuilding, where protein needs increase dramatically due to protein leveraging (effects on satiety), TEF, nitrogen retention (attenuating muscle protein breakdown), not to mind a reduction in energy balance having to come from somewhere (i.e., fats and carbohydrate), etc.

This data speaks to the average recreational resistance training subject rather than the extremes of, for instance, bodybuilding contest prep. I think it was a decent paper on the mean (and may set some minds at easy with respect to an average minimal effective dose of protein), but really demonstrates the weaknesses of focusing on the mean average at the exclusion of all else.
 

LATS

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I've said it many times before.. training should match your personality and lifestyle..
If you have a active job.. manual labor etc then absolutely you should not be doing high volume .. your job is draining your glycogen stores and calories.. to try and then do high volume is ridiculous.. a low volume , lower calorie expenditure style is best.
I know a guy who has a bit of a demanding job.. so when I set up his routine we did saturdays.Saturdays.. Sundays and weds .. on weds it was mainly a maintenance equipment day of taking care of heavy machines.. but not much physical exertion.. it worked great for him and he even competed on this schedule..
If your a guy who just doesn't have the drive to dig real deep ( trust me.. plenty out there) I would do a high volume program to make up for the lack of intensity..
Personality has a ton to do with it. There are many top level guts who don't rain super intense. Lots of sets .. etc. Is the way to go with them.. if your a " demon on wheels" in the gym and love intensity then a lower volume program to avoid overtraining is a better way to go..
Life style and personality is a major influence on training.. or at least should be.. its never a one size fits all
 

Type-IIx

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Where, in the past 4 pages, have you read anyone say "well it worked for Levrone and _______" ???
Everyone here has basically said, EVERYTHING WORKS.

Mike looks terrible and the vast majority of his audience are not bodybuilders, they are newbie if not very intermediate lifters juuust getting into lifting.
They often dont know intensity (being they are very new to lifting) and therefore RIR works best because they have no idea how to "train hard."
Listening to him debate Jordan Peters was terrible. I also dont know a single person who he helped thats worth a damn.
YES! With respect to training, everything (provided sufficient effort) works for hypertrophy until you reach your genetic potential. There are optimal approaches that get you there more quickly. Of course, the playing field changes with AAS, rhGH, rhI, allowing one to break through their genetic potential (but still subject to genetic responses to various factors).
 

danieltx

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Where, in the past 4 pages, have you read anyone say "well it worked for Levrone and _______" ???
Everyone here has basically said, EVERYTHING WORKS.

Mike looks terrible and the vast majority of his audience are not bodybuilders, they are newbie if not very intermediate lifters juuust getting into lifting.
They often dont know intensity (being they are very new to lifting) and therefore RIR works best because they have no idea how to "train hard."
Listening to him debate Jordan Peters was terrible. I also dont know a single person who he helped thats worth a damn.
Israetel has said many times it's taken him 21 YEARS (maybe 22 at this point) to achieve the physique he has now. That's absolutely insane. You could take an untrained individual, put them on a good bodybuilding diet / training / gear protocol, and have them likely surpass Israetel in 5 years. Yeah he spent a good portion of that natural but that just shows how poor his training and diet was for so long.
 

juggy38

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Very odd structure.

Greg Nuckols is one of the hosts of stronger by science. He is very strong and has more pl genetics but he doesnt appear to even try to follow his own diet advice.
Israetel does live the bbing lifestyle etc. Just think he overcomplicates things and makes it sound like hes a astrophysicist and has a basically made up degree, Its not in exercise science/physiology, I think he called is "sports science". His wife is an actual MD so who knows maybe he feels the need to keep up with her or something. I also get he needs to make a living, and its not like hes a snakeoil salesman. He also doesnt pretend hes natural or anything either.


Did you make it through college?
 

juggy38

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Israetel has said many times it's taken him 21 YEARS (maybe 22 at this point) to achieve the physique he has now. That's absolutely insane. You could take an untrained individual, put them on a good bodybuilding diet / training / gear protocol, and have them likely surpass Israetel in 5 years. Yeah he spent a good portion of that natural but that just shows how poor his training and diet was for so long.


Man, I agree. I listen to “data driven strength” podcast….mostly because I enjoy the insanity of these guys trying to dissect powerlifting. They have BAR speed meters per second per rep shit.

I’m not shitting on them, just it’s kinda the point we are talking about here.


I enjoy their passion for PL and they are nerds who enjoy lifting, so we get science dissection.

But the ogors who win PL meets, are basic bitches. 5x10, 4x8, 5x5, 6x3, 8x2….Deload win meet.
 

Pheedno

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Israetel has said many times it's taken him 21 YEARS (maybe 22 at this point) to achieve the physique he has now. That's absolutely insane. You could take an untrained individual, put them on a good bodybuilding diet / training / gear protocol, and have them likely surpass Israetel in 5 years. Yeah he spent a good portion of that natural but that just shows how poor his training and diet was for so long.
Perhaps his genetics and application of his own training principles are sub optimal? The Jared and Charlie guys, who I assume are doing the same training, seem to be pretty well developed at a young age
 

MR. BMJ

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Where, in the past 4 pages, have you read anyone say "well it worked for Levrone and _______" ???
Everyone here has basically said, EVERYTHING WORKS.

Mike looks terrible and the vast majority of his audience are not bodybuilders, they are newbie if not very intermediate lifters juuust getting into lifting.
They often dont know intensity (being they are very new to lifting) and therefore RIR works best because they have no idea how to "train hard."
Listening to him debate Jordan Peters was terrible. I also dont know a single person who he helped thats worth a damn.
Is that available anywhere? I don't think I ever knew about them debating. Thanks.
 

MasteroniPepperoni

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RIR ? I have some cool abbreviations for my recommendations. I studied very hard on these techniques too. May want to take out a notepad y’all

SUAT - SHUT UP AND TRAIN
FSTS - F*CK SCIENCE TRAIN SAVAGE
IIR - Intensity is everything
Lol, but seriously, the 70s guys had it right. Training is instinct and an art
 

qbkilla

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Speaking of Paul Carter, thoughts on his ig post that shrugs vertically do nothing for the "upper traps"? I tried doing what he says do work the "upper traps" using a machine to do trap rows and feel nothing, like it's not even an exercise when compared to traditional shrugs?

Are there even upper and lower traps or are traps like the chest where it's a single muscle and you can't work upper and lower fibers?

Seems to me like many have used normal fb, bb shrugs to build high traps so what he says may be BS.
 

jeroendebleser

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Speaking of Paul Carter, thoughts on his ig post that shrugs vertically do nothing for the "upper traps"? I tried doing what he says do work the "upper traps" using a machine to do trap rows and feel nothing, like it's not even an exercise when compared to traditional shrugs?

Are there even upper and lower traps or are traps like the chest where it's a single muscle and you can't work upper and lower fibers?

Seems to me like many have used normal fb, bb shrugs to build high traps so what he says may be BS.
I only do shrugs for traps and they always grew just fine. (I can't do deadlifts or squats anymore due to lower back damage/surgeries)

So I'm calling BS on that.
 

Sixfoottwo

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Speaking of Paul Carter, thoughts on his ig post that shrugs vertically do nothing for the "upper traps"? I tried doing what he says do work the "upper traps" using a machine to do trap rows and feel nothing, like it's not even an exercise when compared to traditional shrugs?

Are there even upper and lower traps or are traps like the chest where it's a single muscle and you can't work upper and lower fibers?

Seems to me like many have used normal fb, bb shrugs to build high traps so what he says may be BS.
I follow him on IG even tho I think he's an ass, but didn't he say that the bulges we see as upper traps are actually the middle traps?

I don't know, I posted this in another topic earlier but all these guys want to reinvent the wheel and I kinda think it's annoying. For decades enormous backs have been build with deadlifts but now all the sudden they do nothing for hypertrophy. We should only train in the 5 to 7 rep range since all the rest will only mess up your cns and blabla.
 

qbkilla

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I follow him on IG even tho I think he's an ass, but didn't he say that the bulges we see as upper traps are actually the middle traps?

I don't know, I posted this in another topic earlier but all these guys want to reinvent the wheel and I kinda think it's annoying. For decades enormous backs have been build with deadlifts but now all the sudden they do nothing for hypertrophy. We should only train in the 5 to 7 rep range since all the rest will only mess up your cns and blabla.
To me it was kind of vague. He didn't mention getting them to stand up I don't think but he insinuate that if you want high traps do shrugs in the transverse plane like he demonstrated as that hite upper traps.

But then I searched every other source says the exact opposite of him. That shrugs in the transverse plane hit middle traps and normal shrugs ( how everyone does them) hit upper traps.
I just know I attempted them how he demonstrated felt nothing it was like I was wasting my time. I can see incline shrugs maybe I feel them but nothing is like vertical traditional shrugs IMO
 

Golden

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I’ve been watching some of John meadows clips from YouTube. He mentions some new ‘gurus’ saying rear laterals don’t hit rear delts, etc. I’m all for progress but some of these people just trying to reinvent the wheel for the sake of it. Same thing with isolating the lats, How deadlifts don’t build the back, etc. variation is good but chins, lat pull downs, bent rows and deadlifts have built many decent backs then and will continue to now
 

cal

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Did you make it through college?
Made it through Law school very easily Big fella. Alot harder than "sports science". He doesnt have a degree in exercise science. But I dont go around calling myself Jurist Doctor ever.
 

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