My observation from watching national level shows

Dusty Hanshaw · Dec 9, 2009

After watching every national level show for the last few years and analyzing the pics and placings I feel as if the judges are talking to the athletes but their voices are falling on deaf ears. What I have noticed is that guys come in and nail it one year. With the best look of their career they place second through fifth and put the bodybuilding world on notice that they are a true contender for a pro card.

After that it seems like a lot of these guys decide that what they had that day was what the judges are looking for so they bring it again. The only problem is that they are competing six months or even a year later with the same physique (assuming they can get the same conditioning twice) and their placing drops.

My point is not that the judging is bad but that we have to remember that at the highest level not only are you competing with the other athletes but it seems like you are competing against your previous best as well. I feel like the judges are begging the athletes to show them big changes from one show to the next. My most recent example (who I chose because I am impressed by him) is Tamer El Gundy. I think that although he faced stiffer competition at the Nats than the USA's the judges really just did not want to see him there looking just like he did at the USA's. I feel he would have been better suited to have taken an entire year off to get to the top of the LHW class and then bring that trademark conditioning at 198 lbs and show the judges that he addressed the area's that held him back (controversially) from snagging his pro card.

Why does it seem like some guys forget that as amateurs there are very few if any that are in the refinement stage of their careers. We all still need to make BIG changes to hang with the guys at the next level so why do we stop making those changes while trying to get there? I feel like you should be trying to make obvious changes from one show to the next in order to show progress and to earn the right to keep improving at the next level.

What are your guys thoughts on this???

Dusty

Dusty Hanshaw · Dec 9, 2009

I want to add that I think at next years Nats Brad Davis will prove my theory and either snag his card or be banging loudly at the door.

tflexxin · Dec 9, 2009

that's a great observation. I think the guys that are the big name guys ARE competing both against the competition as well as their own last performance. Example, Trey was really off this year. Supposing he shows up next year considerable better, yet not as good as a no-name. He will beat the no-name guy. With 40 guys for the judges to look at, it's very difficult for them to quicky reduce the field into top 6, and undoubtably every year guys get unfair placings.

Tamer should have taken the year off, come in with another 7-10lbs of muscle at the top of the class, and the judges would have rewarded him.

pesty4077 · Dec 9, 2009

Dusty, I was talking with Tamer at The Excalibur. I told him that I like his physique, but the 2 guys that beat him where much bigger, he agreed, I think he will focus on size this year. 10 pounds on him and he will be hard to beat. I know personally myself, I was too small too compete with some of these guys. Sometimes a takes a couple of years for good size gains. If not winning a title, at least set goals for being better every year.

joshbarnett · Dec 9, 2009

branch warren in the pro ranks is a perfect example of being rewarded for making large improvements to his physique...

AWN2004 · Dec 9, 2009

Dusty Hanshaw said:
After watching every national level show for the last few years and analyzing the pics and placings I feel as if the judges are talking to the athletes but their voices are falling on deaf ears. What I have noticed is that guys come in and nail it one year. With the best look of their career they place second through fifth and put the bodybuilding world on notice that they are a true contender for a pro card.

After that it seems like a lot of these guys decide that what they had that day was what the judges are looking for so they bring it again. The only problem is that they are competing six months or even a year later with the same physique (assuming they can get the same conditioning twice) and their placing drops.

My point is not that the judging is bad but that we have to remember that at the highest level not only are you competing with the other athletes but it seems like you are competing against your previous best as well. I feel like the judges are begging the athletes to show them big changes from one show to the next. My most recent example (who I chose because I am impressed by him) is Tamer El Gundy. I think that although he faced stiffer competition at the Nats than the USA's the judges really just did not want to see him there looking just like he did at the USA's. I feel he would have been better suited to have taken an entire year off to get to the top of the LHW class and then bring that trademark conditioning at 198 lbs and show the judges that he addressed the area's that held him back (controversially) from snagging his pro card.

Why does it seem like some guys forget that as amateurs there are very few if any that are in the refinement stage of their careers. We all still need to make BIG changes to hang with the guys at the next level so why do we stop making those changes while trying to get there? I feel like you should be trying to make obvious changes from one show to the next in order to show progress and to earn the right to keep improving at the next level.

What are your guys thoughts on this???

Dusty

In a nutshell this is how I kinda feel about things.....

This sport is about muscle. It's bodybuilding and you need to have enough of it while maintaining the correct proportions AND you need to be in fantastic condition. If you prove to the judges that a given weight you can accomplish whats been typed above, your next showing you need to be showing up with either more muscle or better conditioning or a combo of both.
I've been to the Nationals and the USA's several times and I can tell you from being about ten rows back from the stage that at level you can't be off even by a hair because 1-5 and now-a-days 1-10 are fantastic athletes. Even if you come in at your all time best, you gotta beat it next showing. Not just match it. The expectations that the athletes are expected to meet are pretty tough considering how hard this sport really is.

SmallTownIron · Dec 9, 2009

Dusty Hanshaw said:
After watching every national level show for the last few years and analyzing the pics and placings I feel as if the judges are talking to the athletes but their voices are falling on deaf ears. What I have noticed is that guys come in and nail it one year. With the best look of their career they place second through fifth and put the bodybuilding world on notice that they are a true contender for a pro card.

After that it seems like a lot of these guys decide that what they had that day was what the judges are looking for so they bring it again. The only problem is that they are competing six months or even a year later with the same physique (assuming they can get the same conditioning twice) and their placing drops.

My point is not that the judging is bad but that we have to remember that at the highest level not only are you competing with the other athletes but it seems like you are competing against your previous best as well. I feel like the judges are begging the athletes to show them big changes from one show to the next. My most recent example (who I chose because I am impressed by him) is Tamer El Gundy. I think that although he faced stiffer competition at the Nats than the USA's the judges really just did not want to see him there looking just like he did at the USA's. I feel he would have been better suited to have taken an entire year off to get to the top of the LHW class and then bring that trademark conditioning at 198 lbs and show the judges that he addressed the area's that held him back (controversially) from snagging his pro card.

Why does it seem like some guys forget that as amateurs there are very few if any that are in the refinement stage of their careers. We all still need to make BIG changes to hang with the guys at the next level so why do we stop making those changes while trying to get there? I feel like you should be trying to make obvious changes from one show to the next in order to show progress and to earn the right to keep improving at the next level.

What are your guys thoughts on this???

Dusty

Dusty, I am along the same pages as you. I feel that a lot of guys are not coming in bigger and better year after years. But a lot of guys are maintaining.

For example, take two guys:

Guy #1: Is the biggest and most likely the best shape in the show, but he is no better than his previous shows.

Guy #2: Comes in much harder, bigger and better than his previous shows. BUT may not be as "up to scale" as GUY #1.

Guys #2 will win in my eyes since he has shown much more improvements and stand out more than GUY #1.

b-boy · Dec 9, 2009

"hollywood" glen is another example, he kicks ass at the jr. USA's with great shape and conditioning and then comes into nationals without that conditioning, although his shape alone and muscle bellies could have gotten him in the top 15 the judges didn't let it happen cause he was so much off his last look, to get top 5 he would have needed to be better than jr. USA's and he comes in looking sub-par (for him) and doesn't even make top 15 and he was backed by MD bigtime!

I appreciate the kind words about me dusty, me and mountaindog1 are working hard on bringing up weakness and im doing my part by staying in pretty good conditioning and training balls to the wall to make it happen. I have so much confidence in john that it aint even funny, he has really taken the time to sit down study me and map out a game plan for next year including which shows he thinks i should hit and thats what im going with. Im putting full effort into my offseason this year and mirroring myself from shelby in the disapline department.

hey toopoo if your reading this, the bet is on bro!

ronnie0072 · Dec 9, 2009

i agree

latimus · Dec 9, 2009

yah I completly agree. shoot look at lee banks. I thought he beat jeff long but lee seemed to look the same as he did last year and jeff long finally nailed it. hence why jeff got the nod and the procard.

VNV · Dec 9, 2009

SmallTownIron said:
Dusty, I am along the same pages as you. I feel that a lot of guys are not coming in bigger and better year after years. But a lot of guys are maintaining.

For example, take two guys:

Guy #1: Is the biggest and most likely the best shape in the show, but he is no better than his previous shows.

Guy #2: Comes in much harder, bigger and better than his previous shows. BUT may not be as "up to scale" as GUY #1.

Guys #2 will win in my eyes since he has shown much more improvements and stand out more than GUY #1.

You're going to give the guy who's not as "up to scale" as his competitor the win because he made improvements?

That's ridiculous.

SmallTownIron · Dec 9, 2009

My point is, that the judges are expecting guy to come in bigger, harder and better and not coming in looking the same as they always have.

joshbarnett · Dec 9, 2009

this is why dexter placed where he did...

betito · Dec 9, 2009

It´s like showing if you are ready or not for the pros, if you show up 3 consecutive years looking the same you have no business turning pro, because a lot of these guys would need to improve by leeps and bounds to be noticed at a pro stage... nowadays everybody is happy because the 202 class is a class where they can fit and compete and do well... THAT´S DELUSIONAL AND A TON OF SHIT! the guys at the 202 are crazy good and and the field is so stacked that some incredible guys don´t place at all... Tamer would look anorexic nest to Jose Raymond, Branden would look fat next to Correa, shit David Henry was top 2 and 3 at open shows and now he is getting 3rd at some shows and I´m mentioning some of the top amateurs, a ton more say they are aesthetic when they just lack muscle... Kevin English weighed 201 ripped to the bone, depleted and dehidrated, then he carb loaded and competed at 215, if you are the same height and weight 20 pounds less he will probably blow you away like it was nothing...

rickyboy36 · Dec 9, 2009

Dusty Hanshaw said:
After watching every national level show for the last few years and analyzing the pics and placings I feel as if the judges are talking to the athletes but their voices are falling on deaf ears. What I have noticed is that guys come in and nail it one year. With the best look of their career they place second through fifth and put the bodybuilding world on notice that they are a true contender for a pro card.

After that it seems like a lot of these guys decide that what they had that day was what the judges are looking for so they bring it again. The only problem is that they are competing six months or even a year later with the same physique (assuming they can get the same conditioning twice) and their placing drops.

My point is not that the judging is bad but that we have to remember that at the highest level not only are you competing with the other athletes but it seems like you are competing against your previous best as well. I feel like the judges are begging the athletes to show them big changes from one show to the next. My most recent example (who I chose because I am impressed by him) is Tamer El Gundy. I think that although he faced stiffer competition at the Nats than the USA's the judges really just did not want to see him there looking just like he did at the USA's. I feel he would have been better suited to have taken an entire year off to get to the top of the LHW class and then bring that trademark conditioning at 198 lbs and show the judges that he addressed the area's that held him back (controversially) from snagging his pro card.

Why does it seem like some guys forget that as amateurs there are very few if any that are in the refinement stage of their careers. We all still need to make BIG changes to hang with the guys at the next level so why do we stop making those changes while trying to get there? I feel like you should be trying to make obvious changes from one show to the next in order to show progress and to earn the right to keep improving at the next level.

What are your guys thoughts on this???

Dusty

Bro..i have never competed myself,nor do i know alot about sows.But do you really think the judges remember you from the last time especially if you were 15th or so?.I mean there must be hundreds of guys they see in a given year and to remember exactly what your conditioning and weight were seems to me a bit hard to grasp?Plus,is it always the same ones who judge you?

Im not disputing what you are saying,im just trying to understand how a judge can judge you from what he saw before.I thought it was more or less being compared to others on stage that made your placings.

eroc613 · Dec 10, 2009

rickyboy36 said:
Bro..i have never competed myself,nor do i know alot about sows.But do you really think the judges remember you from the last time especially if you were 15th or so?.I mean there must be hundreds of guys they see in a given year and to remember exactly what your conditioning and weight were seems to me a bit hard to grasp?Plus,is it always the same ones who judge you?

Im not disputing what you are saying,im just trying to understand how a judge can judge you from what he saw before.I thought it was more or less being compared to others on stage that made your placings.

Your right, you don't know much about bodybuilding.

tflexxin · Dec 10, 2009

VNV said:
You're going to give the guy who's not as "up to scale" as his competitor the win because he made improvements? That's ridiculous.

NOO, he's saying that is what WILL happen, not what he thinks SHOULD happen. Point being, guys are being rewarded for being better than their last outing rather than simply being compared to the other athletes.