New MD article with John R dave p and bruce n

JustWannaBeHuge · Jul 29, 2003

has anyone read the new MD? there's an interview with dave p. john romano and bruce neller. just wondering what everyone thought about bruce neller's suggestion for a first cycle.

in case ya didn't see it. it went something like this. (i didnt buy the mag, just going from memory, so if i am wrong at anypoint, anyone that read it, please point it out)

but he said,
1st week= 3gms of test
2-4th weeks=1.5gms test
and 5-10? weeks=1 gm. test

i believe thats right, but as i said, i may be a lil bit wrong. his reasoning is, that noone gains like they do offa the 1st cycle, so might as well take full advantage of it.

just curious what other's opinions are. i didn't have the chance to read the entire article, i should have bought it, but iwas running late and didnt realize the time.

also say that someone has been clean for over a yr, and they were wanting to juice again, would you give them this idea, or tell them to go slowly?

i personally have grown to like the longer cycles as it seems alot of other guys have too, from that other thread on here.

so fellas, what ya say?
JW

PHIL HERNON · Jul 29, 2003

Please

Dont believe everything you read.

titan · Jul 29, 2003

That is a foolish way to look at it.
3 gms is rediculous for a beginner.

JustWannaBeHuge · Jul 29, 2003

I don't believe everything i read. i took alot of classes in journalism so i know better. but at the same time, i know that not everyone starts taking juice when they reach their natural limits, they dont want until age of 30, and they don't start off taking 500 mgs a week.

i was just asking what others thought about it, as i know there are guys here that frontload, and i may get bashed for it, but i have frontloaded 3 gms but i did 1gm for the rest of the cycle. it wasn't my first, as this was done back in nov.
and i was also on for over 6 months back in 2001going into 2002. which was the same time i went and had the blood work done and everything came back good, so i didnt screw anything up.

JW

Fathead · Jul 29, 2003

Bruce Kneller

AKA Brock Strasser is an absolute dipshit and reminds me of some other gurus on the boards and in the mags. You could put in a thimble what he actually knows compared to Dave P and Romo.

drgoodbody · Jul 29, 2003

That's Bruce's "Gramabol" cycle - he had an article a long time ago at T-mag about it. I don't recall it being a first cycle, but rather it being a cycle for anyone who is serious about putting on size in a hurry.

Ahhhhaaaaa....Here is the article by Bruce:
------------------------------------------
Just like Nana suggested...Gramabol

It seems that everyone has a different version of the "best cycle" for mass gains. What is your opinion on the best 'roids for getting as huge as possible? While you're at it, what's the best way to cycle them?

Dan Duchaine once said that "if you can't grow on Deca and D-bol, you just can't grow." Maybe Dan was right. However, my opinion is a little different, as I maintain that "if you can't grow on testosterone, you just can't grow." Testosterone is the best, overall mass builder from a strictly utilitarian perspective. Sure, I like Anadrol, but it is tough to find, often causes headaches or nausea, and is expensive as hell, at least for the Syntex stuff. You also end up losing quite a bit of muscle mass after you come off of it.

D-bol is pretty good, too. But if I could pick one steroid for mass gains, it would be a testosterone...probably testosterone cypionate (or Sostenon 250, if you can't get plain cypionate). I like high doses. Not crazy-ass, Paul Borresson/Governor-type of doses, but certainly I like doses in the gram-a-week range. And I like a ten-week cycle when using testosterone. If it were legal in the states, this is exactly how I would do a mega-mass builder:

Week 1
• 3,000 mg of testosterone per week
• 100 mg of clomiphene citrate every other day

Weeks 2-10
• 1,000 mg of testosterone per week
• 50 mg of clomiphene citrate every other day

Weeks 11-14 (post-cycle)
• 50 mg of clomiphene citrate per day

So, for this cycle, you'd need 12 grams of testosterone (that's 48 amps of Sostenon 250) and 128 of those 25-mg Clomifin capsules (or 64 of the 50-mg jobs).

What's my logic? Well, the big dose of testosterone in the first week is to get your blood levels of the stuff really high, really quickly, so that it has an immediate effect. The clomiphene is there to deal with the estrogenic issues during and after the cycle and to minimize the HPTA crash post-cycle. If you're retaining too much water and look like a bloatbag, you can use 50 mg of Clomid every day during weeks 2-10. This is a fairly inexpensive cycle, costing maybe $650 to $850 or so. And I'm willing to bet that most people would gain well over 35 pounds of mass from this, along with serious increases in strength.

This ain't for the faint of heart, and it ain't subtle in the least because everyone is going to know that you're a juiceball. But if you don't care about what people think, then this is the cycle for mass building. You'll feel like Superman on this cycle, and you'll notice the gains within 21 days (you'll really see quite a bit, and so will everyone else). You can use other steroids, for sure, and you can come up with all types of whacked-out stacks that will probably work. But, hey, if you're going to spend all sorts of serious cash on weird-ass gear, why not add in some testosterone?

Testosterone is the Miracle Whip of all juice—it goes pretty darned good with everything. Besides, why spend a down payment on a Porsche and go through the trouble of finding four different types of gear when you can get the same, or better, results from using plain old testosterone?

Side effects? I'm willing to bet that the side effects from a gram of testosterone per week aren't much different or more severe than what you'd see with just 400-500 mg a week. But the gains that you see on a gram...whoa! Big difference!!! Just call this the Gramabol cycle and get a toupee.
--------------------------------------------

DrG

drgoodbody · Jul 29, 2003

BTW - notice that this is a very 1990's article, he's got you taking Clomid

as opposed to Arimidex or Letrozole or Aromasin or anything more modern.

Clomid as an anti-e.... it's so 90's.....

DrG

MikeS · Jul 30, 2003

To front load a 1st cycle is not necessary IMO. It hits you pretty quick in comparison to future cycles (dont you all remember?!). Now Id never just start with sust (that takes so long its silly).
Also I have a long term plan while cycling. In other words if I do this cycle, what will it take for me to get gains 3 cycles down the road? So if you start with such ridiculously high doses, where do you go from there next cycle, after your body and receptors have been acclimated to a certain dose? So Id do moderate dose like 500-600mg test plus maybe 300mg deca. And make gradual increases/changes with each new cycle.

An example of how I plan for future cycles:
I felt Id burnt out at about the 1.5-2g wk doseage (plus orals).
So instead of going to 2.5-3g and getting a little extra kick, I did the next 2 cycles low dose AS with a front load. Less than 1g wk. And I added slin, then 2nd one gh&slin. Well Im getting some of the best gains in a long time; Im on the 2nd low dose cycle. And my so-called AS tolerance (body/receptors) has lowered considerably Im sure. So if I wanted I could go to 2g the next cycle and it would probably rock. This is the design for me to maintain longetity in my 'supplementation'.

Remember the 'Anabolic Roundtable' from the old Muscle media?
Thats what MD is doing with this article-I like it. Dave P is a brilliant guy, and Im not to keen on alot of so-called gurus like Borreson/Kneller/BRobberts. Plus Dave P is a real cool guy as is John Romono.

Maverick · Jul 30, 2003

Well here is my opinion

I like to read MD as I find it the best magazine out right now, but this article is pure ignorance. 3,000mgs of test for a first timer??? Where do they come up with this stuff. I wish I had my own magazine becuase I would rip the hell out of this.

Maverick

PHIL HERNON · Jul 30, 2003

Maverick

You are right! You need to do that! There is no one more qualified to do that than you! Well, maybe Doggcrapp. You two should talk!!!

LATS · Jul 30, 2003

personally, anything over a gram a week scares me.. i just do not want to travel that road.. if i go to two grams a week will i get twice the gains...no. i MIGHT gain a little more but, the sides would diffinitely increase. i always start with the old stand by..up my protein if ai feel i am not going anywhere. it is all about what the gear can do for your protein assimulation..you can only assimulate so much no matter how many grams of test you take in...there are limits to everything....

Maverick · Jul 30, 2003

Phil

Bro you know the mag is in the works. baby steps my friend. But you know you'll have a rant page where you can speak out on all the BS in bodybuilding.

Maverick

PHIL HERNON · Jul 30, 2003

This is why I love Lats

LATS said:
personally, anything over a gram a week scares me.. i just do not want to travel that road.. if i go to two grams a week will i get twice the gains...no. i MIGHT gain a little more but, the sides would diffinitely increase. i always start with the old stand by..up my protein if ai feel i am not going anywhere. it is all about what the gear can do for your protein assimulation..you can only assimulate so much no matter how many grams of test you take in...there are limits to everything....

All this pyramid BS dosnt really matter.

eye_candy · Jul 30, 2003

Nuts

1st cycle was 250mg test week, net gains were 25lbs in 8 weeks( 30-35ish total) so I would say big dose is not needed and I am no gentic wonder.

mike man · Jul 30, 2003

Re: This is why I love Lats

PHIL HERNON said:
All this pyramid BS dosnt really matter.

PHIL, what do you mean by this? I'm guessing take a straight dose throughout?

Dad · Jul 31, 2003

John Romano??

I don't know the other two guys well - Pulumbo competes currently, though his comment about non-aromatizing steroids not causing hypothalamic suppression is totally wrong. But John Romano??

As far as I know this guy's claim to fame was being married to Shelley Beatie, and writing a cookbook. A "Steroid Guru?" Since when, and on the basis of what? The guy has never competed, has he?

Amazing!

PHIL HERNON · Jul 31, 2003

Dad, good point

I have never seen him on stage.

xcelbeyond · Jul 31, 2003

Re: John Romano??

Dad said:
As far as I know this guy's claim to fame was being married to Shelley Beatie, and writing a cookbook. A "Steroid Guru?" Since when, and on the basis of what? The guy has never competed, has he?

I saw Shelley compete for her first time - at a contest I was competing at also. She won her class and won the overall - a beauty to say the least!!

xcel

MikeS · Jul 31, 2003

John used to be a pretty top ranked ameture in the 80s. He is a friend-we worked together on the MD BUSTED article alot, and have met and chatted on the phone. He, and Rick Collins, are the most important public voices (IMO) on the ridiculous AS laws.
I believe his AS knowledge is basically as a user with a good 'ear to the streets', he has been around forever also. He has also been on this board per my invite.