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No more misunderstanding please!

Eagle

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Oct 25, 2002
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I know Enry from some other boards, and we are two VERY different persons.
And I find it peculiar that we have the same IP, as we write from to different european country, very far from eachother (as far as I know).

My doubts about the use of syntherol where true ones.
A friend wanted to use it but was concerned about possible damages/sides.
I am in the medical field and in the bb so and he asked my advice.

Silica – following what synthetek wrote to me, silica is not added to soften the fascia (as somebody write in this board) but is present in the coconut oil from which syntherol is made, and it has not been possible to avoid small amounts in the synt.
They wrote it is present in very small amounts, with no clinical significance, still they had to list it in the ingredients by law.

Acidity of the free fatty acids – free fatty acids (ffa) are pretty acid compounds, comparable to ascorbic acid and alike.
So the synth is not “oil” but is an acid oil, which probably reacts with the living muscle tissue and irritates it.
I have no idea whether this could be an issue for long term and big amount use.

Lidocain – I thought I read the name in the ingredient list, yet I could be wrong. If this is the case I apologize.

Having said that, my friend is trying the syntherol.
He’s doing forearms, his weakest part.

First we studies the fascial compartment of the forearm.
There are some 22 muscles, and everyone is enveloped in a fascia.
Still, when after a trauma, a man get what is called “compartment syndrome” to the forearm (meaning a too big increase in the pressure due to bleeding under the fascia within the muscles, and subsequent ischemia of the muscle, nerves and all other structures lying under the fascia), surgeons do split only 3 main compartments: the anterior one, the posterior one and the deep one (between the to bones).

So, if the aim is to stretch the “main” fascia to reduce the pressure against muscles and allow them more room to growth, it would be enough to inject into the anterior AND the posterior compartment, no matter which muscle one injects.

The deep compartment was regarded as too dangerous, due to the great number of nerves and blood vessels to avoid to get to it.

Still, to rotate the injection points targeting different muscles is going to be used, just in case the effect is gonna be more “local”, to maintain the origianl and natural shape of the forearm.

The amount of oil to be used was calculated in about 200ml PER SIDE to have an increase in girth of about 3 cm, supposing the oil is staying in place long enough to have a “sum effect”.

We use 25g needles, 5/8 long.
Small multiple slow injections, not more than 0,5 – 0,75 ml per site.

We just started a week ago and we have already some probs to solve.

Injecting in the “posterior” compartment (the extensor of the wrist and the brachio radialis) is no problem at all.
Some light pain, sth like doms, which goes away in about 24 hours.

Injecting in the “anterior” compartment is much more painful during the injection but, MOST IMPORTANT, my friend develops (we have tried 2 times so far) a sort of acute inflammation of the whole compartment, from the wrist to the elbow (the injections where made about 5 cm below the elbow level).

Redness, swollen, pain, expecially when extending the wrist and fingers.
Pain and the rest disappear in about 3-5 days….

We don’t really know what to do now.
May be we should try to inject a little more deeper, maybe we could try to evaporate the benzilyc alcohol before injecting.

It looks like, in the anterior compartment, the tissues are very “soft” and the oil can spread pretty musch up and down, and possibly irritating some structures in some (to me) unknown ways.

My friend had a similar situation when he injected a 2 ml test prop in the forearm, and this leads us think is may be the alcohol and not other components of the synth.

Any sensible advice is welcome!


PS – People writing that injecting something, and in big amounts, in the muscles should be regarded as possibly dangerous as breathing I HOPE were joking.

Ps n 2 – people who does not care about what they are injecting provided it works are invited NOT to reply. Thank you.



Eagle ;)
 
Last edited:

bigarms

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Ps n 2 – people who does not care about what they are injecting provided it works are invited NOT to reply. Thank you.

Are you a moderator or simply make your on rules????
 

Eagle

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bigarms said:



Are you a moderator or simply make your on rules????

It was a wish NOT a rule.

The word "invited" had a very clear meaning, you can look it up if you are not familiar with it.


Eagle ;)
 

homonunculus

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Eagle said:

PS – People writing that injecting something, and in big amounts, in the muscles should be regarded as possibly dangerous as breathing I HOPE were joking.

Eagle ;)
Eagle,

Very interesting experiment you're working on there.

I quote the above b/c the comparison of the *carcinogenesis* of breathing was with the *carcinogenesis* of *silica* in and of itself, in particular. The reference, I believe, was not to the *general dangers* of injecting a large bolus of substance X compared to those of breathing. While it started off (I think) in jest, breathing is indeed carcinogenic, as we are all breathing in carcinogens right now.

As far as your experiment goes, it seems that the flexor compartment of the forearm is more highly innervated (median and ulnar vs. radial nerves), both muscularly and cutaneously (or appears so in my Netter's). There also appears to be more large blood vessels. This would provide the structure (nerves) and blood supply to set up a strong inflammatory response.

A suggestion. If your intent is simply to stretch the compartment, not necessarily any muscle in particular, you might try inserting a long needle (1.5-2") at an oblique angle (maybe 45?) to inject the SEO. While injecting, slowly pull the needle out about 1 inch, keeping it deep enough to avoid a sub-q injection. This will be deep enough for safety, but spread the bolus over a larger volume of the compartment, as well as potentially put it into both deep and more superficial muscles.

I take it you're massaging the site after injection, etc. Ice and anti-inflammatories will help as well, of course.

-Randy
 

Eagle

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Re: Re: No more misunderstanding please!

homonunculus said:


Eagle,

Very interesting experiment you're working on there.
....
A suggestion. If your intent is simply to stretch the compartment, not necessarily any muscle in particular, you might try inserting a long needle (1.5-2") at an oblique angle (maybe 45?) to inject the SEO. While injecting, slowly pull the needle out about 1 inch, keeping it deep enough to avoid a sub-q injection. This will be deep enough for safety, but spread the bolus over a larger volume of the compartment, as well as potentially put it into both deep and more superficial muscles.

I take it you're massaging the site after injection, etc. Ice and anti-inflammatories will help as well, of course.

-Randy

Thank you for the kind reply.

Injecting deeper and at different depths (within the same injections) is one of the procedures I thought to try.

I probably wont inject WHILE pulling out, but I will go all the way to the deep, ASPIRE, inject small amounts, 0,2 ml, draw back some mm, ASPIRE, inject again 0,2, and so on.....until I am superficial enough.

But I have to wait for the pain and swelling to go away.

Ice I never tried, I will.



Eagle ;)
 

homonunculus

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Good idea...

Never hurts to err on the side of caution (well, it might just a hurt a bit in this case...).

When I've tried this approach, I haven't aspirated b/c I go so slowly that I can feel the change in resistance to flow if / when the needle's end passes through a vessel. (I can also feel the give when I hit an vessel on the way in.) I'm just as likely to aspirate and change the needle depth just enough to inadvertently put it back into an artery or vein (this is usually a 1-handed maneuver). When I go slow, even if I am in an artery, very little would be injected before I have stopped or withdrawn the needle to a more superficial depth.

BUT - a big but - SEO is a different deal. I have no idea how it coagulates in the blood stream. Given that it doesn't exit the site in the same manner as an oil-based injection, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a greater risk of creating an embolism. I think you're being very prudent in your caution.

I've also never done a forearm injection. I prefer to build my forearms the old-fashioned way. I EARN that muscle mass in the privacy of my own home behind closed doors... LOL ;)

-Randy
 

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