Over Rated Big time.

Alex A · Jul 4, 2009

I really believe that gear is not for everyone. Especially those who are not disciplined with their diet and training.

Personally, i have always advocated beginners not even mess with the stuff until they pay their dues in the gym and then follow a diet that works and get into a position that they need something to get them to the next level

High level competitors use because they have their diet and training in check and want to be as competitive as every one else. Beginners and people just wanting to get in great shape should first bust their ass for a long long time, then consider use..

I dont want to offend any sponsors here by saying this but... In the long run, but when people see results they are going to be much happier.

I find that most beginners who are not on a solid diet and training plan make very little gains on cycles.. Also, people with high bodyfat wont see the results that others claim because many of the benefits of being "on" are hidden by the bodyfat.

People should think long term.. the progression should be...master your diet and training, pay your dues by training hard .....for a long time.. then consider the next level....

There are many serious people on this forum that preach the exact same thing as me.

chris250 · Jul 4, 2009

Great post Alex, but im afraid that it will fall to deaf ears...In this world today, everyone whats it yesterday...They want the easy way out, they want 20 inch arms without busting there ass in the gym and eating every 2-3 hours...they want those 20 inch guns, last year not have to wait 4 years of hard, busting your ass training and eating...

But again great post and yes I agree

chris

iprimate · Jul 4, 2009

Alex A said:
I really believe that gear is not for everyone. Especially those who are not disciplined with their diet and training.

Personally, i have always advocated beginners not even mess with the stuff until they pay their dues in the gym and then follow a diet that works and get into a position that they need something to get them to the next level

High level competitors use because they have their diet and training in check and want to be as competitive as every one else. Beginners and people just wanting to get in great shape should first bust their ass for a long long time, then consider use..

I dont want to offend any sponsors here by saying this but... In the long run, but when people see results they are going to be much happier.

I find that most beginners who are not on a solid diet and training plan make very little gains on cycles.. Also, people with high bodyfat wont see the results that others claim because many of the benefits of being "on" are hidden by the bodyfat.

People should think long term.. the progression should be...master your diet and training, pay your dues by training hard .....for a long time.. then consider the next level....

There are many serious people on this forum that preach the exact same thing as me.

Not everyone has the luxury of a "long time". What if you started late, i.e. in your late 30s, long after your prime? What if you have been knocked out of action for years by major disease or accident? What exactly is a long time? 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? As John Maynard Keynes once said, "In the long run we are all dead."

abolish the weak · Jul 4, 2009

one thing that helped me

I tried this and it really showed me how much can be done with hard work and diet. Try just doing a test only cycle for 8-10wks while dieting. Even if you've run all kinds of stacks in the past, just try a low dose 4-500 mg/wk cycle of test and diet your ass off. Most people would be amazed at the results just being on a little test and good diet will do for them. Ok, NOW..... after your 8-10 wks of test only throw in some shit like winny or tren and watch how damn freaky you get!! This is exactly what I did this year, I had friends asking me what I was on and I just told them 400mg/wk prop and they were like "Dude, get the fuck outta here your lying" The sad part is I have a friend who has all the money he wants to blow on gear and GH. He is running 5iu's/day GH, primo, test, tren, winny, proviron, aromasyn, and I think 1-2 more compounds. I'm not even on half that right now and I look way further along with my prep than he does. So his excuse is there is something I'm taking I'm not telling him about. The reason he looks the way he does is because he eats too fucking much and I told him that. Alex is right on the money about this one, the gear is def overrated. Granted it will give you a harder look when dieting but its main purpose is to preserve muscle during fat loss. And to help grow in off season.

witefall · Jul 4, 2009

abolish the weak said:
I tried this and it really showed me how much can be done with hard work and diet. Try just doing a test only cycle for 8-10wks while dieting. Even if you've run all kinds of stacks in the past, just try a low dose 4-500 mg/wk cycle of test and diet your ass off. Most people would be amazed at the results just being on a little test and good diet will do for them. Ok, NOW..... after your 8-10 wks of test only throw in some shit like winny or tren and watch how damn freaky you get!! This is exactly what I did this year, I had friends asking me what I was on and I just told them 400mg/wk prop and they were like "Dude, get the fuck outta here your lying" The sad part is I have a friend who has all the money he wants to blow on gear and GH. He is running 5iu's/day GH, primo, test, tren, winny, proviron, aromasyn, and I think 1-2 more compounds. I'm not even on half that right now and I look way further along with my prep than he does. So his excuse is there is something I'm taking I'm not telling him about. The reason he looks the way he does is because he eats too fucking much and I told him that. Alex is right on the money about this one, the gear is def overrated. Granted it will give you a harder look when dieting but its main purpose is to preserve muscle during fat loss. And to help grow in off season.

I agree 100%.

Lenny · Jul 4, 2009

I am gonna just say amen to that Alex! Get your body right on those levels first, then consider the next level. Again, it is never to late to get it right...we learn from mistakes we make and go back to the nitty gritty part of bodybulding - CONSISTENT, HARD WORK both in the gym and at the dinner table!

Happy 4th July Promuscle....enjoy!

railslave · Jul 4, 2009

abolish,i agree, but wow, i have lost alot of bf off of low dose test and a good routine so far. but...my diet is pretty good. not the best, but pretty darn good

UglyDucklingSyndrome · Jul 4, 2009

I agree with what Alex is saying, I also agree with Abolish. I never touched anything until after 5-6 years of training, along with a lot of research. The fact is there are always going to be exceptions to the rules(even though there aren't any rules kind of). I certainly don't think a 19 year old kid should be cycling huge stacks, but that's just my opinion.

The best I have ever looked was off! Because my diet was so on. A lot people "bulk" and justify an unhealthy diet while on. But to each their own because what it all comes down to is each one of us learning our bodies by trial and error with different foods, training and supplements. Some people just have a much better grasp on themselves than others.

railslave · Jul 4, 2009

nvm that i shoulda add my med history but i dont feel like rolling in a chapter today

Alex A · Jul 4, 2009

Lenny said:
I am gonna just say amen to that Alex! Get your body right on those levels first, then consider the next level. Again, it is never to late to get it right...we learn from mistakes we make and go back to the nitty gritty part of bodybulding - CONSISTENT, HARD WORK both in the gym and at the dinner table!

Happy 4th July Promuscle....enjoy!

Lenny, you worked your ass from a teen man... Chris250 too... grinding away, day after day in the gym.. Many others...

Those with less than great genetics( most of us) and those getting a late start.. I would still follow the progression i mentioned earlier.....

I love this kind of thread because... some awesome people start telling their stories of how they built up their physique.

Its rare you hear the story about the guy who ate shitty, didn't do cardio, half assed his workouts but then after his first cycle he became a shredded monster and kept all his gains..

b-boy · Jul 4, 2009

holy shit im laughing my ass off at this thread!! LMAO... OMG! Alex first off to you bro, great thread and i agree 110% with everything you said! my laughing is done at the rest of the thread after your post, hey everyone go read chris250's post and what he says (not laughing at you chris, your post was the eyeopener in the humor though) then read the other comments. see if you find the humor as i did

if you can't then i will just keep laughing to myself... hey chris im going to pm you bro...LOL

ps.

I know phil hernon will see the humor...LOL

steele · Jul 4, 2009

good questions

iprimate said:
Not everyone has the luxury of a "long time". What if you started late, i.e. in your late 30s, long after your prime? What if you have been knocked out of action for years by major disease or accident? What exactly is a long time? 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? As John Maynard Keynes once said, "In the long run we are all dead."

bodybuilding, no matter what age, is a progressive endeavor. so train til you hit a plateau then adjust diet or training til you hit another plateau then add hormones or modify diet to keep breaking plateaus.

my 2 cents. -STEELE

mexbeast · Jul 4, 2009

i agree wiyh you man idont eve discuss the isue with anyone under 25 or anyone new to lifting, of the subject i was looking at a ironman mag october 2002 page 207 and look a familiar face alex a wining 3 titles as a lw 143bls, i just thought that was cool , anyway may i ask what you wiegh this days?

whiteknucks · Jul 4, 2009

i would not recommend taking anything untill you are at least 25 yrs old and know how to eat and train. but after that is said and done....

without gear you are short changing yourself BIGTIME...just look at natural comp pics and npc novice pics...theres the proof!

jay_dub · Jul 4, 2009

I'll admit I took drugs way before I should have, but luckily I havent wasted too much time in the process and finally have gotten my shit together.

Alex, like Chris said, its already fallen on deaf ears, this thread you started about staying CLEAN turned into a discussion on 500mg "low dose" test cycles. Ouch.

pesty4077 · Jul 4, 2009

iprimate said:
Not everyone has the luxury of a "long time". SOME DO STUPID THINGS PUTTING THEIR HEALTH AT RISK What if you started late, i.e. in your late 30s, long after your prime? I PERSONALLY KNOW GUYS STARTING IN THEIR 40'S, 50'S THAT LOOK GREAT WITHOUT AAS What if you have been knocked out of action for years by major disease or accident? THAT IS PROBALLY LESS THAN 2%What exactly is a long time? 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? HOW ABOUT 30 YEARS?As John Maynard Keynes once said, "In the long run we are all dead."

THAT MIGHT BE TRUE, BUT WERE YOU HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE IN THAT TIME?

Designbuilt · Jul 4, 2009

b-boy said:
holy shit im laughing my ass off at this thread!! LMAO... OMG! Alex first off to you bro, great thread and i agree 110% with everything you said! my laughing is done at the rest of the thread after your post, hey everyone go read chris250's post and what he says (not laughing at you chris, your post was the eyeopener in the humor though) then read the other comments. see if you find the humor as i did if you can't then i will just keep laughing to myself... hey chris im going to pm you bro...LOL

ps.

I know phil hernon will see the humor...LOL

I saw that too. The first post was stay away from drugs, the second post was that no one would listen, and most after were proving Chris' point. Starting with how to properly use drugs.

It's best to explain sometimes, I've tried to joke about domestic sources sending fake customs letters and some genius thought that I was being serious, and went on to say how I was helping to prove the lifter meathead theory or some crap like that.

Designbuilt · Jul 4, 2009

chris250 said:
Great post Alex, but im afraid that it will fall to deaf ears...In this world today, everyone whats it yesterday...They want the easy way out, they want 20 inch arms without busting there ass in the gym and eating every 2-3 hours...they want those 20 inch guns, last year not have to wait 4 years of hard, busting your ass training and eating...

But again great post and yes I agree

chris

X's 2. But the women are just as lazy, I've had girls who while eating ice cream, ask me if I can "get them hormones to help them build muscle and lose fat"

h8tr3d · Jul 4, 2009

im not sure if "everyone" wants to be a ripped mass monster, or do contests. I agree, people should educate themselves about gear extensivly before use. I think a lot of peoples goals differ from person to person. A lot of power lifters will use gear to get crazy strong, so they can lift more. They dont have the best diets. Some people just want to be "heavier", and cant get ther without the use of gear. So they use it to aid them in gaining weight, like AIDS patience do. I guess, if your into developing a ripped, contest worthy physique, then your training and diet should be first, then the gear last.

witefall · Jul 4, 2009

I completely agree with Alex for those beginning training on NOT using gear until you reach your natural genetic potential.

But I also agree with Abolish, that Test at a moderate dosage with a good diet is very productive for someone that didn't start out the way the OP suggests.

Beyond that, I don't understand how the thread became so funny.