Rpe rant

[Baphomet36]

So I’ll be the contrarian here…

I very very rarely max out or go to “true failure”.

We use accelerometers heavily. I know for instance if I am moving 535 on dead’s at 1.75meters per second I can dead 600 as a max. 555 at 1.75 meters per second squats to a 645 dead for me.

We have new tools and tricks allowing us to minimize the potential of injury and maximize output.

This allows me to train multiple high output CNS events without overly taxing my system multiple times per week and often per day.

Only things I got failure and beyond is band assisted pull and push ups. Sets of 75 pulls and 250+ Push with bands (and proper form) leave one absolutely demolished.

Your goal isn’t hypertrophy though if I’m not mistaken

 

[Baphomet36]

I think you're mischaracterizing and conflating some of these points. Mike Israetel never says "don't go to failure or beyond." Whoever told you that has never really seen any of his videos or read his work and are the ones parroting bullshit. RIR is a tool in gauging progression. Mike explains a typical 5 week training block would look something like:

Week 1: 2 RIR
Week 2: 2 RIR - add weight or reps and sets
Week 3: 1 RIR - add weight or reps and sets
Week 4: 1 RIR - add weight or reps and sets
Week 5: Failure and post failure techniques on the last set of each exercise. Add weight or reps and sets
Week 6: Deload
Week 7: Repeat block, but start with close to the same weight you ended block on.

Doing HIT is great and works well. But don't kid yourself, nobody and absolutely NOBODY goes to absolute failure and beyond every training session and continuously makes gains. CNS takes a fucking hit and you need to recover.

I grew up idolizing Dorian and I know HIT works. But people forget Dorian used RIR as well. He's talked about it frequently. His training blocks looked something like:

Week 1-5 or 6: 1 set each bodypart to absolute failure, with post failure techniques every set
Following 2 weeks: 1 or 2 RIR, "Just short of Failure."
Then repeat.

Not sure why your are ranting. There are a lot of different ways to train and make progress.

That’s not really rir that’s called a deload for recovery.

 

[buck]

Such things don't get me bent out of shape as i really don't watch much if it. I find most podcasts are to help the poster get a following. And most posting is just generally garbage or just a rebranding of something that has been around for some time. I find the basics cover most everything from training, food nutrition etc. There are a few very knowledgeable people that are more cutting edge. But it doesn't take a lot of watching to catch most of the meaning behind their system.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

With all this talk about nervous system stress from training too close to failure or whatever, people might as well use a device that measures HRV (think it is heart rate variability). Then you actually know when you need to back off. Everyone is different. I know for me every day is different... Depending on how much sleep you got, how recovered, etc.

Fred Hatfield already covered this 40 years ago for bodybuilding with his ABC training.

 

[qbkilla]

Mike is a pretty big fucking human, as is the Chinese guy and jarrod feather….yea yea cue huge doses comment

Powerlifters have been doing this RIR shit for years…..

5x5 at 65% pretty easy
3x5 at 75-80%…a little tougher
1x 90% AMRAP….try to meet god….

Add 10lbs to your working max, repeat.

Mike just applied it to bodybuilding specific exercises, and uses double progression.

Also, before shitting on volume waving. PLs from years back also waved volume. Called step loading. Usually accessories…..

2x10 RDL week 1
3x10 RDL week 2
4x10 RDL week 3
Repeat

Are you saying programs like starting strength are similar? They are in they don't go to failure, but I don't believe they use RIR they just require you to add weight each week. The 5x5 for example is a very simple program that does not use failure and works. But no one is actively trying to manipulate reps in reserve and saying "I am going to do a set and end it this many reps short of failure". They simply add weight each week. Same with gvt.

 

[qbkilla]

And I am all for periodization, but I think it should be kept simple. Deloads, you feel beat up, don't enjoy each workout but dread it, time for a deload. Maybe play with frequency or rep ranges, reduce volume when calories are low. But I think saying this week is 7;rpe, next is 8, then 9, then add a set still at rpe 9, then failure, then start over at rpe 7, to me that is overcomplicated like others have alluded to.

 

[Performance Based]

Your goal isn’t hypertrophy though if I’m not mistaken

You 100% are correct sir.

If I up my food intake and add 500mg test I shoot up from 215ish to 240 in around 2-3 months with the same training principles. Same same but different (in my james franco voice).

I would sound the foundation/principles of training are remarkably simialar despite your endeavor. I may be getting old, these rickety old knees, but I don't see the utility of putting 3x your bodyweight on a bar and moving it when you can simulate than same load/intensity with less risk for damage.

Once again, completely cool to say... "Your just old"

 

[juggy38]

The problem is that the vast majority of Mike's audience is young lifters...and he's teaching them points that are only understood by semi-advanced ones. In order to understand what RIR is, you need to understand failure. And most 24 year olds dont. Therein lies the problem. Big, advanced dudes dont listen to Mike lol

Are you saying programs like starting strength are similar? They are in they don't go to failure, but I don't believe they use RIR they just require you to add weight each week. The 5x5 for example is a very simple program that does not use failure and works. But no one is actively trying to manipulate reps in reserve and saying "I am going to do a set and end it this many reps short of failure". They simply add weight each week. Same with gvt.

No, starting strength is for 19 year olds that learned the iron game from terrible highschool football coaches and they want to continue.

Im kinda just enlihhting the fact that Israel’s methodology isn’t new. And it works.

Many block PL programs move from low volume easy weeks, to moderate volume memdium weeks, to high volume soul crusher weeks.

Then you fuck around with bands and ex girlfriends and repeat


It works….im not saying it’s the best, I’m saying it has its method to the madness. And this is a guy who Does DC style workouts.

 

[Hatchet]

Thats why I ignore that nonsense. There's like 3-5 people I listen to when it comes to training, and still tweak their idea's to fit my own.
(And they are not BB's).

Wendler, Coan, etc.

 

[1fst400]

That’s not really rir that’s called a deload for recovery.

This tells me you don't know what a deload is. Going just shy of failure for two weeks is not a recovery period. Take it from the guy how tore both his bicep and tricep off the bone. He's stated further he should have stayed further away from failure than he did for those two weeks. That, my friend, would be a deload.

 

[1fst400]

The problem is that the vast majority of Mike's audience is young lifters...and he's teaching them points that are only understood by semi-advanced ones. In order to understand what RIR is, you need to understand failure. And most 24 year olds dont. Therein lies the problem. Big, advanced dudes dont listen to Mike lol

A couple of strange comments here. Kind of an interesting take about age - Haney was 24 when he won his first Olympia and there are way too many bodybuilders now in their early 20's that are too jacked for what you're saying to be true. How do you know who his audience is? Also, do you not see Charly and Jarrod with him, not to mention other big m'fers he trains with on his videos. I mean, what do you consider "big, advanced dudes?" Avatars on a BB forum?

 

[Baphomet36]

This tells me you don't know what a deload is. Going just shy of failure for two weeks is not a recovery period. Take it from the guy how tore both his bicep and tricep off the bone. He's stated further he should have stayed further away from failure than he did for those two weeks. That, my friend, would be a deload.

tells me you don’t. I’ve got his journal i can read through it and see all his work outs. Yates never used some rir and Leroy still doesn’t.
Hell go read what Skip and Dante and Scott Steveson all recommend for a deload. Do I need to post it for you?

Here’s Skip buddy leave a couple reps in the tank

 

[TheOtherOne55]

A couple of strange comments here. Kind of an interesting take about age - Haney was 24 when he won his first Olympia and there are way too many bodybuilders now in their early 20's that are too jacked for what you're saying to be true. How do you know who his audience is? Also, do you not see Charly and Jarrod with him, not to mention other big m'fers he trains with on his videos. I mean, what do you consider "big, advanced dudes?" Avatars on a BB forum?

You're using Haney as your singular example? Please...
And what "too jacked" early 20's guys are you refering too? You're cherry picking in the worst way.

Simply go look at the likes and comments on Mike's social media pages, its that simple.
If you think top-level BBers are listening to Mikes techniques then you simply arent paying attention to his content.
I cant help you there bud.

 

[qbkilla]

Another thing to mention, some people have alluded to mike having size and the feather kid, do we assume they built their size using an RPE scale each set? Not saying they don't, but perhaps some of these content guys who are openly selling 'knowledge" may not actually train using the complex protocols they advocate. Or they may now, but most likely did not start training this way when they made their fastest gains.

 

[Cerberus777]

tells me you don’t. I’ve got his journal i can read through it and see all his work outs. Yates never used some rir and Leroy still doesn’t.
Hell go read what Skip and Dante and Scott Steveson all recommend for a deload. Do I need to post it for you?

Here’s Skip buddy leave a couple reps in the tank

Deloading a week or two is normal. I personally prefer to gage progression where I fail. Fail at 15th rep, shoot for 16th this time. When I feel beat up, not progressing. Every 12-14weeks I'll leave a rep in the tank for a week or 2 and start over.

 

[Baphomet36]

Deloading a week or two is normal. I personally prefer to gage progression where I fail. Fail at 15th rep, shoot for 16th this time. When I feel beat up, not progressing. Every 12-14weeks I'll leave a rep in the tank for a week or 2 and start over.

I like that approach. I’ll usually take 5-7 days off and then do a week like that.
JP kinda says the same thing as what you are I believe

 

[Performance Based]

Properly applied de-loads are something I personally have struggled with for quite some time.

Prefacing this with I am not a bodybuilder.

Batching is a relatively new modality to me that has been really coming through the community lately. Day usually consists of performance based cardio, strength/durability, and a skill based sessions.

6 weeks of sprints followed by six weeks of distance runs. Maintain one sprint session per week during distance block and one distance run per week during sprint blocks. Off days of running are tempo based swims. One week off in between segments of pure low impact swims.

For strength 6 week powerlifting segments coupled with the sprint phase to 6 week bodyweight. Same principle of 1 and 1 in the respective weeks.

Skills based training I have utilized this for quite a while. IE two weeks of clinch work taking precedence (each and every rep includes), etc.

For me personally the deload segment must take care of CNS fatigue, allow for peaking for an event if necessary, give my skeletal and connective system a break and stave off injury.

When I have ran properly applied deloads I will say the modalities have frequently changed based off my personal needs at that given time.

There simply isn’t a one shoe works best modality

 

[qbkilla]

Deloading a week or two is normal. I personally prefer to gage progression where I fail. Fail at 15th rep, shoot for 16th this time. When I feel beat up, not progressing. Every 12-14weeks I'll leave a rep in the tank for a week or 2 and start over.

Why not take an entire week off or hit the gym twice that deload week with high reps? I feel like the way you described risks not actually allowing recovery. My mindset, if I take a deload I want to make sure I accomplish recovering so I can get in another all out 8 weeks. I'd rather be cautious and do to little than risk not backing off enough.

 

[qbkilla]

Properly applied de-loads are something I personally have struggled with for quite some time.

Prefacing this with I am not a bodybuilder.

Batching is a relatively new modality to me that has been really coming through the community lately. Day usually consists of performance based cardio, strength/durability, and a skill based sessions.

6 weeks of sprints followed by six weeks of distance runs. Maintain one sprint session per week during distance block and one distance run per week during sprint blocks. Off days of running are tempo based swims. One week off in between segments of pure low impact swims.

For strength 6 week powerlifting segments coupled with the sprint phase to 6 week bodyweight. Same principle of 1 and 1 in the respective weeks.

Skills based training I have utilized this for quite a while. IE two weeks of clinch work taking precedence (each and every rep includes), etc.

For me personally the deload segment must take care of CNS fatigue, allow for peaking for an event if necessary, give my skeletal and connective system a break and stave off injury.

When I have ran properly applied deloads I will say the modalities have frequently changed based off my personal needs at that given time.

There simply isn’t a one shoe works best modality

I do like deloads in general and periodization but I think in bodybuilding people periodize sometimes just to say they did. And maybe over think it. I think the comparison usually given is Olympic athletes but I think they are apples and oranges.

If my goal is size, and I run the same simple split for a year with deloads as needed, progress strength wise, rotate exercises I can no longer get stronger......is this inferior to

Low volume block, high volume block, deload, low rep strength block, metabolite training block, etc?

I don't know the answer but IMO DC got it right vs what we are being told now days by the IG content sellers

 

[Cerberus777]

Why not take an entire week off or hit the gym twice that deload week with high reps? I feel like the way you described risks not actually allowing recovery. My mindset, if I take a deload I want to make sure I accomplish recovering so I can get in another all out 8 weeks. I'd rather be cautious and do to little than risk not backing off enough.

I've tried that. I tend to skip a day or 2 (DC 2 way) and then just lift "light" until I feel ready. I just progress better. Now life sometimes gets in the way and I have to take a week off. I come back a little weaker. And staying active at my age keeps things from getting stiff.