Saw this on IG - "what your first cycle should look like"

[Biggerp73]

Saw this post on Instagram from a "coach"/self-proclaimed "guru"..







.... Anyone else think this is a really bad example for what a first cycle should produce? Especially a 12-18... MONTH cycle?

I mean if I looked like the guy on the left while natty, I probably wouldn't use AAS to begin with. But if I spent a year on AAS and only ended up with the physique on the right, after starting with the physique on the left, I'd be devastated. You don't go on AAS, especially not for over a year, to make such modest improvements. I know when I was blasting AAS I would be depressed if I didn't look like a juiced up bodybuilder. Throwing away my health/money to look like a normal dude? No thanks.

 

[Reno911]

Looks like here we go with another Victor thread. I said it before in other threads: keep an open mind, take the good, disregard the bad, look at all angles, and use what you agree with and try to learn and grow.

I do feel that Victor has some good points to offer. I've had a couple consults with him and they were definitely worth the $$$ IMO.

 

[MightyJohn]

Depends on dosages

 

[VaginaBoob89]

that's great if it's 500mg-1g of test only... maybe some gh/insulin when he says he only means "only human use drugs". No idea if that means pharm grade or just only bioidentical hormones. If he means only pharm grade and compounds other than test/gh/insulin, then yeah I agree with the OP this is definitely not smart. There's no reason you couldn't be on test+gh+insulin only as first cycle for 18+ months just keeping dosages reasonable. But if he's playing with deca/tren/eq/ment/whatever over those 18 months... no thanks.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

LOL, this looks like something I'd see in my SPAM folder.

 

[Cito33189]

I feel like I could have done that in 6 weeks with some test tren and winstrol.

 

[juggy38]

Idk….that’s pretty significant back growth, and you got to understand victors starting cycles usually look like…

250mg test, 150mg mast, 25mg proviron for 3/4 weeks, then 250/250/25…3-4 weeks….250/300….

But yes Victor posts some very interesting thoughts. One I always think about how he hates EQ. He says it always belongs in the trash can

 

[qbkilla]

simple marketing. coaching, clicks, followers = cash flow

 

[Mr OZ]

speaking strictly about his physique, the guy on the right looks great

 

[Biggerp73]

speaking strictly about his physique, the guy on the right looks great

He does, but the guy on the right doesn't look like the guy on the left plus 18 months of AAS. I would rather be the guy on the left completely natural than the guy on the right with over a year of steroids.

 

[Biggerp73]

I feel like I could have done that in 6 weeks with some test tren and winstrol.

4-5 weeks

 

[KillerStack]

If you do low dosages you get low results. Duchaine thought a first cycle should be no less than 600mg of test and up to a gram. You only get one chance with first exposure so make use of it. I agree with that. Is this "first exposure - unique results" a fact? Maybe not but I think there might be something to it.

I agree with the 12-18 month long cycle. Why cycle off if you are gaining? Let it "solidify." Though I wonder why Victor talks about going off after 18 months. He also says there is no reason to go off if you aren't really stressing some system - just a slow increase in dosages over time.
Maybe someone here knows more about this.

Knowing what I know now my first cycle would have been test, gh, insulin. I would have done orals maybe 8 weeks on and a number of weeks off. I would probably have incorporated even tren that first year. You could put on 95% of your ultimate muscle mass in that year, instead of taking a decade or whatever, playing with shorter "cycles" at suboptimal dosages.

 

[Tomgrass]

I agree after 10 years on doing bulks cuts i see that nothing comes close to this first two years. No amount of gear gonna give me progress like this newbie gains.

 

[Pheedno]

Looks like 20+lbs of lean tissue to me(from years of evaluating comparison photos with clients), which is great for a year -18 months. It's also tissue without fluff and is likely manageable to maintain.
I have no opinions on what the best cycle is. Its likely vastly different from person to person. Not from a physiological standpoint but with respects to other life circumstances and sustainability practices

 

[Golden]

What causes victor and others to avoid running test at an increased amount and rely on mast, primo, etc? Is it just down to the higher conversion to oestrogen?

I’ve heard them talk of it being a safer approach but I’ve also read @DOGGCRAPP write about test as the parent hormone being better for the body (not his words exactly- I just couldn’t remember the exact term used)

 

[b-boy]

What causes victor and others to avoid running test at an increased amount and rely on mast, primo, etc? Is it just down to the higher conversion to oestrogen?

I’ve heard them talk of it being a safer approach but I’ve also read @DOGGCRAPP write about test as the parent hormone being better for the body (not his words exactly- I just couldn’t remember the exact term used)

If your going to talk about people PLEASE at least know what the fuck they are saying.
Victor's moto: use as much test as YOU PERSONALLY can handle. You up the test dosage until you start to see side effects then you know what YOUR maximal test dosage is. It may bee 350mg or 1200mg per week.

 

[b-boy]

Saw this post on Instagram from a "coach"/self-proclaimed "guru"..



View attachment 147714



.... Anyone else think this is a really bad example for what a first cycle should produce? Especially a 12-18... MONTH cycle?

I mean if I looked like the guy on the left while natty, I probably wouldn't use AAS to begin with. But if I spent a year on AAS and only ended up with the physique on the right, after starting with the physique on the left, I'd be devastated. You don't go on AAS, especially not for over a year, to make such modest improvements. I know when I was blasting AAS I would be depressed if I didn't look like a juiced up bodybuilder. Throwing away my health/money to look like a normal dude? No thanks.

LMFOA are you fucking stupid? That motherfucker put on straight lean muscle tissue he is bigger and way leaner in the after pic. I guess guys like you are use to looking like puffy bloat face acne ridden power lifters. Most guys first cycle using the common bro approach just seem to get puffy as fuck, gain a lot of scale weight that they usually lose the majority of when they cycle off, then do the same song and dance again only acrueing very little actually "lean muscle tissue"
Sure there are some guys in the sport that you see on Instagram that you see gain a fuck ton of lean mass from one show to the next but the true majority of gym rats....that ain't YOU.

THIS POST IS NOT AN ATTACK ON YOU PERSONALLY, just your thought process of the before and after pics that you posted.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I dunno, I feel like this whole thread is just a messy attempt at a humble brag.

 

[Golden]

If your going to talk about people PLEASE at least know what the fuck they are saying.
Victor's moto: use as much test as YOU PERSONALLY can handle. You up the test dosage until you start to see side effects then you know what YOUR maximal test dosage is. It may bee 350mg or 1200mg per week.

Ok mate, I’ll use Broderick Chavez in the same context then as I heard him mention his test gets set at around 3mg /kg and the rest is made up from other, non test compounds

 

[Biggerp73]

LMFOA are you fucking stupid? That motherfucker put on straight lean muscle tissue he is bigger and way leaner in the after pic. I guess guys like you are use to looking like puffy bloat face acne ridden power lifters. Most guys first cycle using the common bro approach just seem to get puffy as fuck, gain a lot of scale weight that they usually lose the majority of when they cycle off, then do the same song and dance again only acrueing very little actually "lean muscle tissue"
Sure there are some guys in the sport that you see on Instagram that you see gain a fuck ton of lean mass from one show to the next but the true majority of gym rats....that ain't YOU.

THIS POST IS NOT AN ATTACK ON YOU PERSONALLY, just your thought process of the before and after pics that you posted.

Not a personal attack?

The guy made good improvements.

But not "first cycle" improvements, especially not "18 month cycle improvements."