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Shawn, Dorian, Kevin talk AAS in two part Interview

Aikman56

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Yeah one amp dont do shit. Sorry if we were getting off topic with the pharma UG debate... But I agree that these guys are not being honest, even though i respect them i know they took more than they are leading us to believe.

Pharma or no pharma, they were huge. And i dont care that they lie, i know why they do... Its irresponsible to just say i did all these drugs bc stupid teenagers will think its the road map to becoming the next Dorian Yates and it aint !!!

Superior, Superior genetics, great diet, perfect training, and a good drug regimen. If you dont have the genetics though doing the rest of that wont get you to be the best in the world....

I don't know about that part...Dillet trained like a 9-year-old girl with a stubbed toe.:p
 

Growman

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Do NONE of you realize that the guys were talking about their first damned cycle? READ.

I know they were talking about there first cycle, but i read all the articles in the magazine when they said what they took later on in there careers.

I really dont care what they took. I believe they took a little more than they said they did, but i dont think they took 7,000-10,000 mg like some guys think.

Levrone said it right there, his highest stage weight was 257. I feel with his genetics he could have achieved that size with less than 7-10g.

But at the end of the day its not my business....
 

Growman

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I don't know about that part...Dillet trained like a 9-year-old girl with a stubbed toe.:p

LOL i cant speak for every aspect of every pro's career. I can only assume you need those things to be in check to be the best. If he trained that shitty i assume he had the other aspects in check. And he never became the best in the world, but did reach the top level.

You trained with him or read that shit somewhere?
 
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ThreeSixFive

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You are right about that. Dude could not pose, he was huge though.

Yeah, absolutely huge but when I watch videos of him posing in the Olympia all I can think about is how many places he probably lost just by not even having a clue about how to pose. Sad stuff.
 

Aikman56

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LOL i cant speak for every aspect of every pro's career. I can only assume you need those things to be in check to be the best. If he trained that shitty i assume he had the other aspects in check. And he never became the best in the world, but did reach the top level.

You trained with him or read that shit somewhere?
Never trained WITH him, but was in the same gym where he was training in '97 and sometime when I was in college ('99-'03), but if I gave you a date, I'd be making it up!

He was HUGE, but weak as shit. Trained like he posed...everything was shaky one he had any kind of weight. Everything cables or machines. I was crestfallen...I just couldn't believe it.

And posed like one too.
Truth...like watching a 2-minute seizure.
 

comedycentral

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I don't think I'll bother reading part 3 as 1 and 2 were so shite. Classic safety answers there all giving. I can't see why they even bothered to do the article. It's hardly ground breaking information. They could have just e mailed in saying yes we used PEDs during our competitive career.
 

Knight9

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PART 3

The Lowdown on Drugs: Part 3
Kevin Levrone, Shawn Ray & Dorian Yates Speak Out





It’s hard to find a top amateur, much less a pro these days, who does not use growth hormone and insulin along with AAS (anabolic-androgenic steroids). Was it the same way when you competed? Do you feel they are both necessary for the look we see today at the highest levels?

SR: The sad thing is that so few of the upcoming generation even want to discuss or read about training and nutrition. They are obsessed with drugs, probably because that meshes with the “instant gratification” mentality of the world today.

DY: I used GH during my contest phases. The first times I used it were for the 1991 Night of Champions and Mr. Olympia shows. I used four IU a day while I was dieting, and I can’t say I noticed much difference adding it in. For my off-season in 1992, I doubled that to eight IU per day consistently, and saw better results. I had hit a plateau, and it helped kickstart me to the next level. I made very substantial gains that year, but unfortunately I overdieted for my first Mr. Olympia win (1992), so they were never seen. I knew I would be the biggest guy up there anyway since Haney was retired, so my concern was to be as shredded as possible.

For 1993, I did everything the same as I had the year before, including the gear and the GH, but wasn’t so overzealous with my prep. As a result, it appeared as if I had made a tremendous leap in size from the previous year. What you really saw were the gains I had made over two off-seasons.

As for insulin, I only used it in 1997 for the off-season leading up to my sixth and final Mr. Olympia win. I got bigger than ever, but it wasn’t quality muscle, and my midsection was distended. Some do believe you need to use all the things out there at your disposal. For me, insulin had a negative overall impact on my physique. It kept me from getting into my usual condition that I prided myself on. Raw mass is not the same thing as quality muscle tissue.I got a bit bigger, but at the expense of my separation, crispness and clear muscle separations. I see that same lack of separation constantly today with the guys, as well as the distended abs. I’m not sure what mechanisms are responsible. You could theorize the guts come from internal organ growth, but if that were the case, my belly would still be big.

KL: GH was still fairly new on the scene when I started competing as a pro. People made a big deal about it, and there was a lot of hype surrounding it. Now I need to clarify what I said about not changing anything about what I used, because I did try GH twice. When I won the Arnold Classic in 1996 at 257 pounds, I used it twice a day every day for the last four weeks right up to the show. I also used insulin for that show, two IU of Humulin R after my workout with a meal, and with one more meal later on. Out of convenience, that’s when I took my GH too. Those did help me add over 15 pounds of bodyweight, but it wasn’t quality muscle, just like what Dorian experienced. To me, I looked a little soft and watery even though I won. I used both again the next year for the Arnold, and that time it threw my condition off so badly that I placed eighth. That was the lowest I ever placed in any contest, and the only time I was ever out of the top six as a pro. So I said screw this stuff. I did the Mr. Olympia that year looking sharp as usual, and then hit seven Grand Prix shows in Europe. I won all of those except the one in Russia that Ronnie came out for. All of this told me that GH and insulin were detrimental to my physique. They blew out my midsection and blurred out my clear cuts. They will get you bigger, but not better. To me, better is better than bigger!



What was a typical drug cycle for you in your competitive prime— let’s say pre-contest and off-season?

SR: There was never anything “typical” about my approach to competition. It was different every year, as I like change and variety. There was never a specific time or drug that interested me to the point where I had to watch the calendar as if it were a guide for contest training and preparation. I trained year-round for the Mr. Olympia, sometimes more intent than others. I had my rest periods and so on, but I never “charted” the time for which a cycle was going to take place as if it dictated my journey. I never counted calories, weighed my food, took measurements of my body parts or let the scale guide my progress. Nor did a cycle of drugs dictate when it was time for me to get ready for a show. I never had a “switch” that I had to click to get ready— I was always getting ready year-round.

The introduction of steroids would only come into play when I was in a process of trimming the fat while trying to retain the muscle. Different drugs were made for very different purposes, therefore there was never a “typical” drug cycle because I never needed or used the exact same drug for every aspect of my body-sculpting phase. A “car” analogy is useful here. A car is used to get from point A to point B. However, the individual buying the car has vastly different reasons for buying a “specific” car, i.e., size, looks, make, model, speed, interior space, etc. There are thousands of cars made to help give each individual who is interested in buying a car an option for the one that is suitable for him.

DY: Let me stress this is not a recommendation to anyone, only what I used. This would be the course I followed circa 1993 in the final 12 weeks before the Mr. O contest:


WEEKLY
test propionate – 300 milligrams
Parabolan (French trenbolone, came in 76 mg/ml ampoules) – 152 milligrams
Primobolan – 500 milligrams


DAILY
anavar – 50 milligrams
growth hormone – 8 IU

I typically also did three eight-week cycles in the off-season, and those would be made up of basics like Deca and D-bol. I would do four weeks at peak dosage, then taper down over the next four weeks before taking four weeks off and repeating. Here is the typical four-week peak off-season cycle:

WEEKLY
testosterone – 750 milligrams
Deca – 500 milligrams


DAILY
Dianabol – 50 milligrams

As I stated a couple of years back when I put those in my column, I’m sorry if these doses disappoint those of you who were expecting something more extreme.

KL: It was a simple progression. My very first cycle was just test cyp, one shot a week. I am guessing I was doing 400 milligrams per week. After I won my state show and decided I wanted to turn pro, which I did the following year, I bumped things up a bit. I took the test up to 600 milligrams a week, and added in 400 milligrams of Deca and two Anadrols a day, which is 100 milligrams per day or 700 milligrams per week. That was my off-season cycle where I put on 30 pounds between the 1990 and 1991 amateur shows. For my prep, I would add in two amps of Winstrol V, which came in 50-milligram amps, twice a week, so that’s 200 milligrams a week of Winny. At four weeks out from the show, I dropped the test, the Deca and the Anadrol. The test and Deca were long-acting, so they kept working for another couple of weeks I’m sure. At two weeks out from the show, I started taking 20 milligrams per day of Halotestin tabs. So I would go into the shows on Winstrol and Halo. The longest my cycles ever were was 12 weeks, and that was later on. They were usually eight weeks in the early years.



Dorian, you are well aware of the reaction that column got. People outright called you a liar and say you downplayed your doses to appear as if you didn’t rely on large amounts to look the way you did.

DY: Well look, that cycle I listed above for prep was from 1993, and it was roughly 1,500 milligrams total. I never said I didn’t increase it at times over the years that followed. I was very meticulous, and kept records of all my workouts, meals and drug regimens. At one point, I did use as much as 2,500 milligrams per week in my off-season, but I didn’t see any further benefits than I had with 1,500. Again, everything I had was real and potent. Parabolan came in 76-milligram ampoules, and it was very strong. Nobody I ever talked to used more than three of those a week. I hear about guys now using 1,000 milligrams a week of tren, which is outrageous. If you have gifted genetics, you really won’t need mega doses. I honestly believe Ronnie Coleman was truly natural when he turned pro in 1991 at 215 pounds.

The guys who come to me taking the highest dosages are typically frustrated amateurs who lack the genetics to become pros. They try to make up for it by using tons and tons of gear, but it doesn’t work that way. Drug dealers want you to believe anyone can be a pro bodybuilder, even compete in the Mr. Olympia, if only you are willing to take more and more drugs. It’s not true, and the guys who need to hear that are in denial and refuse to listen. It’s like you’re crushing their dreams, but meanwhile they are playing havoc with their health for what?



What were your favorite compounds for the off-season and pre-contest? Were there any drugs you personally never cared for?

SR: I won’t answer that, and here’s why. As a bodybuilder who loved the “purity” of bodybuilding, i.e., training, competition, posing, preparation and camaraderie, using and taking steroids was never an enjoyable aspect for me— either taking them or discussing them. I had a personal disdain for all forms of drugs in our sport, as I saw them as a necessary evil that coexisted with my first love. The last thing I want to do is rattle off things I used, as I feel that would only be seen as an endorsement for them and steroid use in general, and would encourage certain individuals out there to seek out various compounds because “that’s what Shawn Ray used. If it’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me too!” No, I won’t play into that.

DY: I’ll answer. Equipoise or EQ was something I liked for any part of the training year. Good old D-bol was the first drug I ever used, and it’s still my sentimental favorite. All the guys in the USA loved Winstrol. I thought it sucked! The injection sites were always very painful for a while, and I just didn’t think it was anything special.

KL: Test cyp, Deca and Anadrol always worked well for me. Those were the basics, just like basic lifts— you couldn’t really go wrong with them. I can’t say I ever tried anything that I didn’t respond to or reacted badly to, for the simple fact that I didn’t try a whole lot of things.
 

Knight9

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PART 4

The Lowdown On Drugs - Part 4
Kevin Levrone, Shawn Ray & Dorian Yates Speak Out!





In this fourth and final part of this groundbreaking series our three Hall-of-Famers discuss health precautions and dangers, Synthol, and drug deaths. Read on.

What precautions did you take to minimize any negative consequences of using gear? Did you work with a doctor who knew what you were doing to monitor your health?

SR: The number one precaution I took was always ensuring the pharmacology I used came from a pharmacy, which is not an option for most these days. I had my blood work checked and monitored throughout my career, and of course my doctor knew I was a professional bodybuilder seeking extra attention to details, as my personal health was always more important to me than my personal wealth and success as a world-class athlete. I always knew that my time as a pro athlete would be relatively short in the big picture of my life as a whole.

DY: I approached my family doctor and told him I was using gear to compete at a high level in my chosen sport. Thankfully he was not judgmental. He agreed to monitor me to make sure I was healthy. There are health risks involved in using AAS, and they increase the longer you use them. I accepted that risk, and my health was as good as could be expected. My blood panels did reveal the usual stressors, with increases in liver enzymes and lowered HDL levels from using orals. At my heaviest, usually when I was 280-290 pounds, my blood pressure was borderline high. But here I am at 54 years old, retired from bodybuilding for over 17 years now. I continue to get health screenings. I have no organ growth except for a slightly enlarged “athlete’s heart,” which is very common. My prostate is normal. Maybe I am just lucky, but I also believe keeping my use moderate had something to do with it.

KL: I started working with my doctor in 1991, as soon as I set the goal of winning the Nationals. I told him what I was doing, and he agreed to do what he could to make sure I was as healthy as possible.



What side effects did you experience, and did they usually go away once you ended your cycles?

SR: The only side effect I ever felt, and I felt it every time I used, was the sense of completeness! I had to turn up the volume on everything I did physically in the gym. Again, I had to make the drugs work for me by working harder! Simply used alone, drugs are not enough “stimulus” for them to work they way I needed them to work going into competition against guys who outweighed me by 50 pounds and stood six inches taller! I consciously trained at a higher level and was acutely aware of my diet to ensure the focus was on the desired end result of the consumption of the drug being used.

DY: Like I said, I saw increases in my blood pressure and liver enzymes, and a reduction in my good cholesterol. The lower HDL was the most concerning to me, as it is a risk factor for heart problems. But that came back up to normal. I live my life differently now. When I was a competitive bodybuilder, I never had even one glass of alcohol all those years. I never wanted to stress my body any more than I already was with the gear.

KL: Call me lucky, but I never had any side effects. I never had gyno, never lost my hair, didn’t even get zits. I suppose I had a little water retention when I was heavy, and my liver enzymes went up when I was using orals like anyone else, but those all went away once I ceased the cycles.



One frightening drug that does seem a bit newer on the scene is the fat-burner DNP, which has supposedly been responsible for several deaths. When did you first hear about it, and did you ever have any experience with it yourself?

SR: DNP, to my knowledge, was not around during my time. If it was, I can’t tell you what it did or who used it.

DY: It’s actually nothing new. It’s been around for something like 100 years. No one I knew used it, nor did I. It’s basically a poison that elevates your body temperature. I used clenbuterol in my prep to burn body fat, and that was more than enough. I never used thyroid meds. I didn’t need them. I was always naturally lean and never had trouble dropping weight. Sometimes I would lose fat so fast it was annoying!

KL: I never heard of it until maybe a year ago, if that.



SEOs like Synthol are supposedly very widely used now to enhance the fullness of areas like the shoulders and arms. At times it’s easy to spot, while there must be many others who did it in such a way where it isn’t so obvious. Do you feel that in a sport where in terms of drugs, “anything goes,” synthol is acceptable? Or would you consider it on par with pec or calf implants, and thus unacceptable?

SR: This is a “grown man’s sport.” If guys want to use synthol, by all means the can. However, there are consequences and a lot of unknowns about the long-term effects of its use, whereas steroid use is temporary and the human body does eventually restore itself back to normal once use has ceased. I personally feel bad for the synthol users that they feel the need to take such risks. However, use of this product is symptomatic of bigger issues with the user than the desire to be recognized as one of the world’s best bodybuilders.

DY: I saw guys starting to use that in the late ‘90s. I never used it. That’s not bodybuilding anymore. You’re not building muscle with any of your own effort— you’re just fluffing it up with oil. It doesn’t ever look right to me, which is why I don’t even consider it an unfair advantage.

KL: I used to beat guys who used it, like Nasser. I believe Flex has gone on record saying he used it too. All I know is, nothing beats hard work and genetics. Synthol makes body parts look distorted and it washes out the fine details you should be able to see. I’m just really old school. I say let the muscle speak for itself. I see it as more of a disadvantage when guys use it, because they look stupid and everybody sees how fake it is.



We have seen a rash of deaths in recent years among current and past bodybuilders, usually involving heart attacks. What do you think is to blame, and are you personally concerned that you might not live as long and healthy a life as you would like due to your own past steroid use?

SR: It goes without saying that many of these guys would still be alive if not for the consumption or preoccupation with steroids. Enlarged hearts, obesity and so on are all factors in some of these premature deaths. It should serve as a cautionary tale as to getting health checkups, maintaining good health post-competition as well as a warning about the abuse of anabolic steroids. We can point fingers at a lot of things when it comes to the death of a bodybuilder. If one died in a car accident, the press would focus on the size of the athlete killed in the crash as a reason he didn’t survive!

Clearly, there are way too many athletes dying too soon, and the only thing we can do as athletes is pay attention to the warning signs, get checkups on and off-season, monitor our health with blood work and EKGs and if using, use in moderation.

Athletes need to have a strong identity and clear comprehension of the following: Why am I taking steroids? How long will I take them? What will I do after I am done? Know the line between use and abuse. Strong issues face the user if he is not properly aligned with “real life” and life after competition.

DY: Like I said several times already, as high-level bodybuilders, we took a calculated risk. I live healthy now, and that’s all I can do. I do feel for all those who passed before my time. They were all my brothers in sport. Saying it’s all heart attacks isn’t fair or accurate. My good friend Sonny Schmidt had cancer, Paul DeMayo overdosed on recreational drugs, and I believe prescription drugs were responsible for Mike Mentzer’s passing too. Momo Benaziza died from diuretics, which are different from steroids in that they can kill you immediately. I’m not sure if it was ever known what killed Andreas Münzer, but it wasn’t a long-term chronic thing like heart disease. He died shortly after a contest like Momo did. Diuretics were used quite a bit in the ‘90s and still are, which is very rough on the kidneys. There is no denying that using large amounts of gear for years and years is dangerous, especially to the heart. But it’s been shown that for men in need of it, TRT has positive applications and can reduce the risk of certain chronic conditions.

KL: I’m not personally concerned, because I was moderate in my use and took more time off drugs than most if not all my peers. Only medical examiners could really tell you what killed all these guys. The one thing that’s used that’s more dangerous than anything else, like Dorian said, is diuretics. Steroids and GH might lead to problems and could kill you eventually, but diuretics can kill you in a matter of a couple of hours. I was there in Holland and saw Momo Benaziza die. But you know what? We have yet to see one Mr. Olympia champion die prematurely. Why is that? I tend to think they weren’t as extreme in their use as some people want to think they were. It’s the guys who don’t have the best genetics that go overboard and take the bigger risks in an attempt to compensate and catch up to the more gifted guys. It’s tough for some guys to accept that some of us have better genetics and just respond a lot better to gear than the average person.



Speaking of which, I am assuming you are all on HRT. What is your current prescribed dosage that you use to maintain healthy test levels, and do you also use GH?

SR: I haven’t touched or taken a drug since I left the contest stage in 2001; it was part of why I retired in the first place. Drugs became the least likeable aspect of competing and I simply could not see myself competing another year knowing that using them would be a part of the next year in my life. I walked away and never looked back.

DY: I am prescribed 200 milligrams of testosterone enanthate per week. This is not by choice. Once I retired, I was very much looking forward to never using steroids again, as well as dropping a good amount of bodyweight so I could finally wear some stylish clothes! Bodybuilding was something I did for myself, not for anyone else, and I wanted to be the best at that sport which I showed a talent for. Once I was no longer competing, I saw no reason to ever use gear again. I was also trying to start a family with my wife at the time. Of course, my test levels and sperm count were both low right after I retired in the fall of 1997. After 18 months, we were finally able to conceive a child. But after two years off gear, my T levels were still in the very low-normal range. I spoke with my doctor, and he put me on a TRT regimen to take me to the higher end of normal. This actually reduces the chance of heart disease compared to having lower T. I don’t use GH. The only reason guys my age use it is to stay leaner, and I am able to do that with no problems anyway.

KL: I use the testosterone pellets for my TRT. Those are implanted a few inches into my glutes, and release very slowly over a period of months. They are designed to give you an even TRT dose of about 200 milligrams a week. I haven’t touched GH since 1997.



So many retired bodybuilders feel the need to continue cycling heavy doses of gear and stay huge long after they stop competing. Why do you think they do that? None of you three have. What made you choose to not bother with that?

SR: I believe I was given a gift: A gift of health and fitness, a sound mind and body. The older I got, the more aware I became of that gift. I didn’t want to take it for granted and felt very fortunate to not have any health-related issues upon retiring. To be honest, I felt very fortunate to have been able to walk away on my own terms the way I made a conscious decision to undertake the crazy idea that I could one day be considered among the sport’s best-built bodybuilders ever. As for the others, again, I never considered the “others.” They simply happened to share the same passion for the sport of bodybuilding I did, but I always felt that was where our similarities ended— as I was always knew I was much more than simply a bodybuilder, and that I was meant to do other things with my life as well.

DY: With most if not all of those guys, they feel the need to stay larger than life for psychological reasons. They are so invested in being a particular size and weight that it becomes their identity and they are terrified to give that up. And obviously, you can’t maintain that extreme mass without gear, and I mean beyond TRT doses. They are addicted not so much to using gear as they are to the huge physique and the attention and acceptance they get from it. Me, I don’t really give a shit. I see guys posting comments like, “Dorian is only 250 pounds now! He’s so small!” Whatever. I did what I did. I was the best bodybuilder in the world for six years, and that part of my life is over now. If I had tried to maintain all that mass this whole time, I bet I would have had a heart attack and might very well be dead by now. But I’ve been living my life well, and plan on being around a lot longer.

KL: I think it’s just too hard for some of these guys to walk away from being that character of the huge bodybuilder that people are amazed by. It takes a strong man to put the syringe down for good and stop playing that role. So they hold on to the past, and keep living in the past, because a future where they don’t get that attention and respect for their body is just too scary. I don’t want to be that 60-year-old guy you see at shows wearing a tank top, a weight belt and carrying his gallon jug of water around with him. That’s just sad. Let it go! I created my character out of pain and suffering. I lost my father when I was 7, and my mom when I was still young too. I had nothing else to hold on to, so bodybuilding became my escape and my world for a long time. But I was able to walk away from it. I like who I am now as a man, and as a father to my son. My legacy as that bodybuilding champion lives on in photos, videos and in the memories of the fans from those years. So I didn’t need to cling to it anymore.

This has been the most open and illuminating discussion on drug use in bodybuilder by three of the sport’s icons. Let us know your thoughts on this unique series.
 

Knight9

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Damn I really hate Shawn Ray's responses. He didn't say ANYTHING specific about his usage and his answers are all mostly douche-laden.
 

AnimalNitro

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Great series by MD. I believe the doses Dorian threw out there. Doesn't seem too far fetched.

DY: With most if not all of those guys, they feel the need to stay larger than life for psychological reasons. They are so invested in being a particular size and weight that it becomes their identity and they are terrified to give that up. And obviously, you can’t maintain that extreme mass without gear, and I mean beyond TRT doses. They are addicted not so much to using gear as they are to the huge physique and the attention and acceptance they get from it. Me, I don’t really give a shit. I see guys posting comments like, “Dorian is only 250 pounds now! He’s so small!” Whatever. I did what I did. I was the best bodybuilder in the world for six years, and that part of my life is over now. If I had tried to maintain all that mass this whole time, I bet I would have had a heart attack and might very well be dead by now. But I’ve been living my life well, and plan on being around a lot longer.

KL: I think it’s just too hard for some of these guys to walk away from being that character of the huge bodybuilder that people are amazed by. It takes a strong man to put the syringe down for good and stop playing that role. So they hold on to the past, and keep living in the past, because a future where they don’t get that attention and respect for their body is just too scary. I don’t want to be that 60-year-old guy you see at shows wearing a tank top, a weight belt and carrying his gallon jug of water around with him. That’s just sad. Let it go! I created my character out of pain and suffering. I lost my father when I was 7, and my mom when I was still young too. I had nothing else to hold on to, so bodybuilding became my escape and my world for a long time. But I was able to walk away from it. I like who I am now as a man, and as a father to my son. My legacy as that bodybuilding champion lives on in photos, videos and in the memories of the fans from those years. So I didn’t need to cling to it anymore.

Thought this was the best part of the article. Walking away is something all of us will struggle with eventually
 

massnup

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Damn I really hate Shawn Ray's responses. He didn't say ANYTHING specific about his usage and his answers are all mostly douche-laden.

Yea they shoulda just kicked his ass out of the room, he was about worthless!
 

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This has been the most open and illuminating discussion on drug use in bodybuilder by three of the sport’s icons. Let us know your thoughts on this unique series.

Illuminating discussion? :naughty:
Sounds like all 3 were together back in the day, planning these types of answers to drugs/hormones. Sticking to the same answers 15+ years later.

Dorian mentions using clenbuterol in part 4, but does not mention it in part 3 of his usage. Anything else he might have forgotten to add in part 3?

Don't recall hearing any words in this series about Formebolone/Esiclene, sleep aids, stimulants, and other peptides. :lightbulb:

Thanks for posting part 3 and 4, Knight.
 

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    Blue-Eyed Devil

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