sleep apnea

gnpower · Feb 21, 2003

Has anybody had the surgery to correct this? If so what were the results? I'm getting tired of sleeping with my damn cpap machine, the darth vader jokes from the wife, etc. Also dropping weight won't help as I've had this condition ever since I was a skinny teenager. Thanks.

Armageddon · Feb 21, 2003

My grandfather had some kind of medical procedure, although I couldn't tell you what. He sleeps like a baby these days though.

vampire · Feb 21, 2003

well, since I'm a respiratory therapist, I guess I'll chime in on this. First of all do you have obstructive sleep apnea or central sleep apnea? Being that you said you have had this condition "since you were a skinny teenager", leads me to believe that it would be central sleep apnea. If you do have the central, surgery cannot help this as it is a neurological problem that causes you to stop breathing in your sleep. On the other hand, obstructive sleep apnea is most commonly caused by obesity, and since you stated that you had it even while being skinny, I suppose there is an outside shot that you may have been born with an anatomical obstruction of your airway. In this case, surgery probably could help you. Have you ever had a sleep study done? This would tell you whether your sleep apnea is obstructive or central. Anyway your best bet is to consult your doc, preferably a pulmonologist

xcelbeyond · Feb 21, 2003

I had a sleep study done in about 1997. At the time, I was sooo tired all the time - I could sleep standing up!

They wired me up like Frankenstein and monitored me overnight. I guess I have the obstructive apnea as I now have a CPAP machine that I use to sleep that keeps the air passageway open so I don't quit breating. The study also showed that I was getting oxygen deprived and "had" an oxygen machine as well. When I switched insurance companies years ago, the new company wouldn't pay for it so I haven't been on oxygen!

I wonder if the surgery to reduce the ulvila (sp?) will help me. I thought when I got down to 5% BF it would go away but my wife makes sleep with the CPAP. Without the CPAP she says I snore like a buzzsaw and quit breathing all the time. She's the reason I got the test done as she was waking up all the time whenever I quit breathing. She actually said this started after/about the same time as my first cycle - which would be around 1985. Her description is "when you gained all that bulk" as she didn't know I was using.

She doesn't think I'm using now - as she found and threw out a shit load of stuff

xcel

wolverine · Feb 21, 2003

My dad has it something fierce. Wakes up like 400 times a night. He had the surgery back in the late 80's and it didn't help one bit. Took his adenoids and uvula out and shave the throat I believe. He now sleeps with the CPAP machine and hates it, but at least he can breath at night.

mike man · Feb 21, 2003

Yep!

I've had it and here is what I went thru and stated about the procedure on animals board awhjile back:

I just had my tonsils, adnoids, and uvula removed about 2 and a half months ago. Still not fully recovered yet. I had to take a month off of work (in a manufacturing facility) and the daily pain over the first 3 weeks was excruciating. I lost 24lbs total and 20lbs of it was over an 8 day period after the surgery. I've been back in the gym for about 6 weeks and gained back about 15lbs. I was on when I had the surgery and never came off during the recovery. I can't imagine how much weight I would have lost if I had come off the drugs too!
It is THE worst thing I've ever been thru and the percacets only worked the first 3 days. But taking the tylenol after helped tremendously. I went thru 12 or so a day. Only thing I could eat for the first 2 weeks was chicken soup at room temp. Anything else was either too hard on my throat or burned like a mother!
But I'm glad I got it done as my sleeping disorder (or rather lack of sleep) is reduced almost to no disorder now. I still wear a CPAP breathing apparatus while sleeping at home cause the surgery never did fix my nasty snoring problem. My girl makes me wear it. lol.

gnpower · Feb 22, 2003

Thanks for all the replys.
Mike Man, thats what I didn't want to hear. LOL. Shit, the pain sounds bad, but 25 lbs sounds like the worst part. Did the doc know you were on during the surgery? I always thought you had to be clean for a while before the surgery, as your blood doesn't coagulate (sp?) as well when using. Also, how many mg and what were you on? How long ago was this and did they use lasers or what?
Vampire, I had a sleep study because the doctor thought there was no way I had the apnea, and it turns out it was obstructive. The test was the same as Xcel had, all wired up, and halfway through they put the CPAP on me to see if that fixed it.

mike man · Feb 22, 2003

gnpower

They just used the scapel to remove all the excess tissues. I researched the risks involved while taking stuff and felt that there was no real need to tell the doc of my use. Other than the higher red blood cell count it should have no bearing on the outcome of the surgery.
I did run into one painful problem 2 days after the surgey though. During the surgery, the doc missed a vessel that he was supposed to cauterize. It bled slowly non-stop for the two days following the surgery. I was constantly choking on built up blood clots the size of a golf ball sometimes. Spitting them up and swallowing what I could stand. I had to make an emergency room visit at 2:30AM and finally got home at 5AM after throwing up tons of blood and actually having a convulsive like seizure in the ER. But in the end it was worth it for me.
I was taking 300 mg test, 300-400mg EQ, and I think some dbol.
Nothing too high since I knoew I was going in for the operation and couldn't workout for awhile.

bigarms · Feb 23, 2003

I had this surgery in 97.....it never worked for me. I would not try this first. I sleep with the CPAP machine now even though I have had surgery and was the only way to solve sleep apnea. A friend of mine ( a medical doctor) had this done twice. This did not work for him and the only thing he got out of surgery was a palet that is too short. He has trouble eating, because food and liquids go up into his nose. I am glad I stopped after one try.

My suggestion is to try CPAP before deciding on surgery. Surgery is not a 100% solution.

xcelbeyond · Feb 23, 2003

Amazing how many have sleep apnea here! I was led to believe that it was "overweight" people that are most susceptible. I guess with all the muscle we have, we must be overweight?!?

xcel

gnpower · Feb 23, 2003

Excel I have always heard that apnea was caused by excessive weight, but I think that applies more to the typical fatass with a turkey neck. As far as my apnea goes it was just as bad at 145 lbs when I was 18, as it is now that I'm 25 and have got as heavy as 245. I also have never been over 12% bf, can always see at least the outline of abs. Although I would be considered quite overweight for my height of 5'10". Our being overweight I don't think is nearly the same as the average slob. When they get all that fat piled around the neck it helps to collapse the airway. It all comes down to bf% I think.
When I last talked to my doctor about the surgery available he said it had about a 50-50 chance of success. I guess that I was just wondering about personal experiences and if there were any new options avaiable. Thanks everyone for the input.

xcelbeyond · Feb 23, 2003

Re: Yep!

mike man said:
It is THE worst thing I've ever been thru and the percacets only worked the first 3 days. But taking the tylenol after helped tremendously. I went thru 12 or so a day. Only thing I could eat for the first 2 weeks was chicken soup at room temp. Anything else was either too hard on my throat or burned like a mother!
But I'm glad I got it done as my sleeping disorder (or rather lack of sleep) is reduced almost to no disorder now.

mike man: I had a similar problem with pain killers from my rotator cuff surgery. EVERY type of pain killer KEPT ME AWAKE - I couldn't get ANY sleep! That included halcion (sp?)

Could you have had protein drinks? It seems that if you're not taking in enough calories, esp protein, you lose muscle mass. I realize that "no excercise" plays a role in the loss but not as BIG a role as the calories/protein.

xcel

mike man · Feb 23, 2003

xcel

The doc said I could eat whatever I could stand, but the problem was in the fact that I was so nauseated most of the time from the pain and blood trickle, that I really couldn't force myself to eat much of anything. Chicken soup was the only thing I found I could stand. Absolutely nothing solid. I did try the shakes and couldn't do it. I was also sooo fearful of throwing up and tearing more of the stitches that were in my throat. I already had the bleeding problem in the first 2 days and I did not want to risk another ER visit. He had to go in and cuterize the bleeding spots that first ER visit. And even though I was still on pain killers, it was too excrutiating for me.
I can honestly say it was the most painful thing I've ever had done. If I had known it was going to be that bad for me, I would never have had it done.
The doc did say that I was one of his worse case scenario patients. lol. I was like "Thanks?"
Like I said earlier, I still use the cpap machine every night. I feel my sleep is improved compared to when I don't use it.
But getting back to your question of the weight loss, it was definitely from lack of protein and nutrients in general. I figured my total calories for the first WEEK after the surgery and it was less than 2500 for the whole week! That is only about half of what I was trying to take in before the surgey, so one can expect that type of wt loss on such low calories.
It may have been a good thing for me though looking back, because the 6 weeks following my total recovery I gained back 5-10lbs more wt than what I had originally lost plus was a tad bit leaner.
All of that body wt recovery while only using very moderate anabolic assistance.

C_Horse · Feb 24, 2003

friend's experience and a question

my buddy had that surgery in college. He was miserable before it, wrecked two cars sleeping in the middle of the day. He was real happy with the outcome.

While on the subject - sometimes when I wake up that uvula is stretched out waaay longer than it oughta be. The whole next day everytime I swallow it goes halfway down my throat. It'll be all swollen and red and hurts like a mother. Seems to be worse when I'm bulking. Is that a symptom of apnea or just some wierd shit? - CH

mike man · Feb 25, 2003

C horse

I've found that to be the case after a night of severe snoring. I think the uvula gets so battered thru the snoring that it causes it to swell up to huge proportions. I had that happen to me many times before I got the surgery. I had mine removed also.

gnpower · Feb 25, 2003

C horse, yes this is the case with me too. Mine swells up like a mofo if I sleep on my back for a couple hours without my machine. If you think you have it, have your girl listen while you are sleeping deeply to see if your breathing stops periodically (throat closing). You can have apnea even if you don't snore.

Armageddon · Feb 25, 2003

I don't sleep on my back at all, for some reason I can't sleep that way. However if I do end up that way or even on my sides sometimes, I've been told that I sound like a freight train. Does snoring mean theres some kind of disorder or is it just when the breathing function is interupted.

gnpower · Feb 25, 2003

Others please correct me if I'm wrong but snoring doesn't hurt a thing, just is annoying to others. The reason apnea is dangerous is because it deprives your body of oxygen, and over time affects your internal organs. Also you don't get restfull sleep as your constantly waking up just enogh to come out of the deeper stages of sleep (hundreds of time a night usually). I was always tired, falling asleep at work, school, and while driving. It's not like just feeling a little tired, but like an almost uncontrollable deep sleep is coming on. No fun.

xcelbeyond · Feb 25, 2003

I believe gnpower hit the nail on the head. Like I said in my post - I was so friggin' tired that I could literally fall asleep standing up. I had to quit working out from lack of energy. That's when I decided to look into it.

xcel