Sleeping aids

[Dave Perez]

Trazadone made me feel like a zombie the next day

 

[m314]

I was looking into this last week and came across these four which aren't too difficult to obtain:

Trazodone (50mg)
Hydroxyzine (Vistaril, 25mg)
Eszopiclone (Lunesta, 3mg)
Quetiapine (Seroquel, 12.5mg)

Only have experience with the first two and like trazodone more. Hydroxyzine I tried recently and stacked with Benadryl (normally take 75-100 mg every night) but lowered the Benadryl to 25 mg. Had about 6 nightmares in the span of an hour and woke up to take more Benadryl. Thought for sure I'd end up in the loony bin if I had to endure another 8 hours of those nightmares.

Lunesta works well at first. It's physically addictive, though. I went through a phase where I was taking it every night. I got to the point where I was starting to feel like shit every afternoon. I'd feel worse and worse through the evening, then I'd take the pill at bedtime and feel better. It took me a while to realize that I was going through withdrawal on a daily basis.

I don't get that effect now, since I take it once a month at most. It works well as long as I don't make it a regular thing.

 

[Creation]

ill never understand why they prescribe benzos for sleep when there are quite a few meds that arent habit forming like benzos

 

[PMULS]

Lunesta works well at first. It's physically addictive, though. I went through a phase where I was taking it every night. I got to the point where I was starting to feel like shit every afternoon. I'd feel worse and worse through the evening, then I'd take the pill at bedtime and feel better. It took me a while to realize that I was going through withdrawal on a daily basis.

I don't get that effect now, since I take it once a month at most. It works well as long as I don't make it a regular thing.

Yikes. Thought for sure it wasn't habit forming until I looked it up again. Found this:

Eszopiclone may be habit-forming and should be used only by the person it was prescribed for. Lunesta should never be shared with another person, especially someone who has a history of drug abuse or addiction.

You may have withdrawal symptoms if you stop taking this medication after taking it over several days in a row. Do not stop taking this medicine suddenly without first talking to your doctor. You may need to use less and less before you stop the medication completely.

---------

I'll have to read up on the other one I haven't tried...

 

[Knight9]

If anyone is interested.. (sleep health and importance)

 

[Rogue]

Getting intensive sleep is crucial to health and growth. It take an effort to plan it, benefit from it and use it as part of the things we do. Use the 'sleep aids' as a tool to help you reset. After that you wont need much. We take sleeping for granted, when were tired we sleep. You don't eat a meal only when your hungry do you?
Be regimental about your sleep and you WILL make gains. In the early 90's Victor Richards once told me in a heavy Caribbean accent "The body thrives off regularity". and those words stuck by me ...

 

[KillerStack]

Getting intensive sleep is crucial to health and growth.

Reminds me of Arnold's philosophy of training yourself to not needing as much sleep as a regular person. Because you can sleep when you're dead and can get a lot more done, and experience more things if you don't sleep. But I've seen data where even one hour less than the optimal starts having a multitude of negative effects on health and performance. I see sleep as quality time

 

[Swifto]

Never been a fan of sleeping aids, I think they will cause some sort of issue eventually, mostly addiction.

Try to address why the issue has arisen to start with.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Never been a fan of sleeping aids, I think they will cause some sort of issue eventually, mostly addiction.

Try to address why the issue has arisen to start with.

I fully agree as usual Swifto but what about those of us who've always had trouble getting to sleep going as far back as my memory lets me? It would be hard to next to impossible for me personally to find a reason as to why I fall asleep so difficult as it's always been like that since childhood.

I think for SOME people, taking sleeping aids and getting in the necessary hours of sleep is less detrimental than not taking the sleeping aids and sleeping insufficiently, wouldn't you agree? But as with the stimulant-pandemic, I do think too many people who don't really need them are relying on them instead of fixing the issue, whatever that may be.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Reminds me of Arnold's philosophy of training yourself to not needing as much sleep as a regular person. Because you can sleep when you're dead and can get a lot more done, and experience more things if you don't sleep. But I've seen data where even one hour less than the optimal starts having a multitude of negative effects on health and performance. I see sleep as quality time

Arnold is a bit of a macho though, he probably slept his 8 hours a night just like mostly everyone else

 

[Rogue]

The idea is to schedule it. Try to reprogram yourself to get an ample dose of what you need. You might have to train a little earlier or use less of that pre-wo... even maybe skip that afternoon nap a few days. Once past that you may not need much help(Sleep aid).
Theres a reason GHB and Nubain where so popular in yesteryears...Being able to break that edge was rewarding. Back then you cycled on and off. So the androgens was neuro-exitation was only a factor when "ON".
Today every one is pushing the higher limits of Trt or a tad over. At those doses you have the exitation but not enough of the calming effects of T , to let you find REM. Many will report the side effects of Trestosterone (everyone known to man look at the boards) from simply not knowing how to manage Trt. HCG,AI, Hypnotics, SSRI,NSRI, Sedatives... etc are common topics discussed today on Trt boards.

 

[01dragonslayer]

Does seroquel give you any sides? How many hours of sleep do you get on it? You feel refreshed in the morning?

I have tried seroquel at very light doses....say 25mg...and it too knows me the f!ck out but again it can be habit forming and when you want to try an ween off it can be very difficult and sides withdraw symptoms are crazy.

 

[01dragonslayer]

I was looking into this last week and came across these four which aren't too difficult to obtain:

Trazodone (50mg)
Hydroxyzine (Vistaril, 25mg)
Eszopiclone (Lunesta, 3mg)
Quetiapine (Seroquel, 12.5mg)

Only have experience with the first two and like trazodone more. Hydroxyzine I tried recently and stacked with Benadryl (normally take 75-100 mg every night) but lowered the Benadryl to 25 mg. Had about 6 nightmares in the span of an hour and woke up to take more Benadryl. Thought for sure I'd end up in the loony bin if I had to endure another 8 hours of those nightmares.

With the exception of traz the others can be habit forming.

 

[alfresco]

Go for a 20 mile walk or a 100 mile bike ride or in other terms a 8 hour walk or hike
and you will have no problem falling a sleep at night

I think most people are more sedentary than ever, hence the sleep problems we are
seeing now. You did not see this 50 or more years ago. People worked harder and
were subsequently more tired at the end of the day, had few problems falling asleep,
comparatively speaking of course.

The stims, like all the coffee people are drinking, I believe do have an effect and
effect people differently. I could fall asleep with an espresso in my hand, not so
much now. Usually I have no problem falling asleep but do naturally get up early
(4-5 AM) regardless of when I go to bed. Weird.

Use all the natural remedies people have been suggesting and there are some good
ones and if that does not work try some OTC chemicals. If that does not work, talk
to your doctor about this and ask about a 'sleep clinic'.

Psychoactive meds would be a last resort for me but they do work (differently on
different people) when you find the right one if it is ascertained that this is the best
route for you. Yes, some these can be habit forming.

One could make a strong argument that all sleep aids are habit forming but then
again so are the steroids that people are taking and while you may not experience
the physical withdrawals so much, the psychological aspect of getting of steroids
can have devastating consequences for some people.

I have tried most of the meds mentioned here (some for sleep, some for other issues
which have been resolved) and some are a miracle for sleep some are absolutely
worthless for me. I would pick you 'poison' carefully but I would fully investigate the
natural route first.

 

[PMULS]

With the exception of traz the others can be habit forming.

Are you sure about hydroxyzine? The doc actually Rx'd it to me when I was under a ton of stress and wanted something that worked quickly but wasn't addictive (was going to be Ativan). Didn't know it was for sleep until I started searching threads here but it seems like shit compared to Benadryl.

 

[Cracker69]

I've been using the Unisom sleep tabs (doxylamine succinate), which is an antihistamine, but it is quite a bit stronger than benadryl and tolerance doesn't build to it like benadryl when it comes to sleepiness. But I did recently order some L-Tryptophan and I'm going to try Frank Zane's recommendation of 500mg per 50 pounds of bodyweight. Ive read that the higher dose L-Tryptophan works very well for increasimg more restful deeper sleep. L-Glutamine has also helped before bed and is also a precurser to GABA. The glutamine with taurine at night actually takes care of trensomnia very well. So I'm going to add the tryptophan to my stack and see it it helps and hopefully get off of the antihistamine.

 

[m314]

Are you sure about hydroxyzine? The doc actually Rx'd it to me when I was under a ton of stress and wanted something that worked quickly but wasn't addictive (was going to be Ativan). Didn't know it was for sleep until I started searching threads here but it seems like shit compared to Benadryl.

It's easy to build a tolerance, but it's not physically addictive as far as I know. I've taken hydroxyzine for months at a time, and I didn't have any problems stopping.

 

[FrancisK]

Any OTC shit doesn’t do anything for me.

So it’s either sleep like shit or take drugs that have crazy addictive properties and side effects. Thus far I’ve chosen sleeping like shit....kinda sucks but the alternative I believe is worse.

 

[Sides]

Any OTC shit doesn’t do anything for me.

So it’s either sleep like shit or take drugs that have crazy addictive properties and side effects. Thus far I’ve chosen sleeping like shit....kinda sucks but the alternative I believe is worse.

You may be right. I've had insomnia all my life, used the GABA and melatonin and tryptophan as long as they would work for me.

But then during a bad time in my life (taking care of my elderly mother when she was passing away from ALS) I couldn't sleep at all, and I started taking Valium to get to sleep at night. I was caught between a rock and a hard place; I needed sleep to be able to take care of my mother, and was completely stressed out and unable to sleep, so I did what I had to do. But I should have stopped the Valium as soon as possible after she died...but then there was stress from handling her estate, dealing with my family and other issues...always one reason or another to keep taking it.

That was four years ago. I'm still taking 10mg Valium to get to sleep at night, and I can't get to sleep without it. It's worked for me so far...but has it? I have anxiety and OCD problems and other issues. Can I get to sleep without the Valium? No. Can I manage to taper off it successfully...that remains to be seen.

I wish I never got started with the Valium in the first place. If I could do it all over again, I would make sure I exhausted every other option first. Because being an addict (to anything) is a dumb and dangerous way to go through life, and I am kicking myself for putting myself in this position.

 

[FrancisK]

You may be right. I've had insomnia all my life, used the GABA and melatonin and tryptophan as long as they would work for me.

But then during a bad time in my life (taking care of my elderly mother when she was passing away from ALS) I couldn't sleep at all, and I started taking Valium to get to sleep at night. I was caught between a rock and a hard place; I needed sleep to be able to take care of my mother, and was completely stressed out and unable to sleep, so I did what I had to do. But I should have stopped the Valium as soon as possible after she died...but then there was stress from handling her estate, dealing with my family and other issues...always one reason or another to keep taking it.

That was four years ago. I'm still taking 10mg Valium to get to sleep at night, and I can't get to sleep without it. It's worked for me so far...but has it? I have anxiety and OCD problems and other issues. Can I get to sleep without the Valium? No. Can I manage to taper off it successfully...that remains to be seen.

I wish I never got started with the Valium in the first place. If I could do it all over again, I would make sure I exhausted every other option first. Because being an addict (to anything) is a dumb and dangerous way to go through life, and I am kicking myself for putting myself in this position.

Oh I get it, half a Valium knocks me out for some amazing sleep and I’m not even groggy the next day. I fully understand how it got that far for you, especially considering the circumstance. Get off that shit brother, even if it means you have to suffer for a while until it becomes normal not to be on it. I know that’s a lot lot easier said than done I wish you all the best with it....