(Study) Boldenone-mediated hepatorenal impairment in Rats (2021)

[Soalian]

Boldenone Undecylenate-Mediated Hepatorenal Impairment by Oxidative Damage and Dysregulation of Heat Shock Protein 90 and Androgen Receptors Expressions: Vitamin C Preventive Role


So, it looks like there's yet another recent study on there that seems to be showing the deleterious effect of Boldenone on health markers, specifically kidney and liver health...

I've been wondering if all those results could be transferred to other specific AAS, or whether there are attributes to Boldenone that makes it specifically toxic, among all the other AAS.

Thoughts?

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

I'm not bright enough to understand those reports - is it suggesting vit c is potentially prophylactic against the negative effects?

 

[Soalian]

I'm not bright enough to understand those reports - is it suggesting vit c is potentially prophylactic against the negative effects?

from my understanding, yes, other studie have found NAC to be useful as well for that purpose.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I was under the impression that most if not all injectable steroids had very little interaction with the liver. In fact, I was just watching a video last week where someone claimed as much. This seems to run counter to that to a large degree. I wonder if the effect in humans is much less than in rats? Do rats metabolize steroids (or at the very least boldenone) differently?

 

[Fa Seeshus]

I was under the impression that most if not all injectable steroids had very little interaction with the liver. In fact, I was just watching a video last week where someone claimed as much. This seems to run counter to that to a large degree. I wonder if the effect in humans is much less than in rats? Do rats metabolize steroids (or at the very least boldenone) differently?

I thought that too, and originally believed the claims of DHB being liver toxic were BS. Went to my bloodwork though and it does have a negative effect on some markers... Nothing crazy like running tons of orals, but it does seem to do something. I took TUDCA and choline inositol with it the last run just in case though. Wouldn't directly extrapolate this to straight Boldenone, just saying i wouldn't be surprised. Right now I actually am more concerned that when I SWYPE text "Boldenone" on my phone it comes up with "Voldemort" instead. Highly concerning that this compound is summoning he who shall not be named.

 

[SOUR DIESEL]

I thought that too, and originally believed the claims of DHB being liver toxic were BS. Went to my bloodwork though and it does have a negative effect on some markers...

^^^hey brother ..what else were you taking with the DHB?

..have had some feedback from guys that say no difference to liver bloodwork on DHB


i suspect that maybe the reports of liver toxicity from DHB (..1-TESTOSTERONE)
..may actually belong to M1T (..METHYL-1-TESTOSTERONE ..oral DHB) ??

.

 

[luki7788]

^^^hey brother ..what else were you taking with the DHB?

..have had some feedback from guys that say no difference to liver bloodwork on DHB


i suspect that maybe the reports of liver toxicity from DHB (..1-TESTOSTERONE)
..may actually belong to M1T (..METHYL-1-TESTOSTERONE ..oral DHB) ??

.

I had a strongly elevated ggtp after 10 weeks on a large dose of dhb 700-900mg a week

 

[Fa Seeshus]

^^^hey brother ..what else were you taking with the DHB?

..have had some feedback from guys that say no difference to liver bloodwork on DHB


i suspect that maybe the reports of liver toxicity from DHB (..1-TESTOSTERONE)
..may actually belong to M1T (..METHYL-1-TESTOSTERONE ..oral DHB) ??

.

I was using low dose test, ment and mast, values were stable and with addition of DHB increased enzymes very slightly. Nothing crazy at all. I also was running the DHB at a higher dose than i usually run things. Later realized it works fine with much less. Overall I think a fairly safe compound and I'd definitely run it again over anything like tren.

 

[Type-IIx]

There's nothing unique to boldenone that makes it particularly hepato- nor nephro- toxic, other than its being relatively less estrogenic than T (in vitro data suggests that podocyte cells [part of the glomerulus in the kidneys] express AR & ER; androgens promote apoptosis, whereas estrogens oppose) and, perhaps, the undecylenate ester (trivially in man, perhaps less so in rodent) increases resistance to hepatic breakdown.

On a continuum of toxicity in liver (described by the formula: potency to activate AR * resistance to hepatic breakdown) and kidneys, EQ lies closer to testosterone than trenbolone and rather far from the extreme end of the commercially available androgens, Superdrol and methyltren.

In both instances of liver & kidney toxicity, ascorbate (Vitamin C) acts as a free radical scavenger, decreasing ROS (and increasing NO). Ascorbate thereby ameliorates the ROS production that causes mitochondrial swelling and subsequent apoptosis.

This does not call for you, a human, to take megadoses of Vitamin C because EQ is kidney and liver toxic in rats.

I cannot say it enough: rats are not humans. While we can make some (mechanistic mostly) extrapolations from rodent data to man, talking about any sort of dose-response is folly. Rats are clearly more impacted by parenterally-administered androgens (injected AAS) than man at these doses with respect to hepatotoxicity/liver membrane and cell damage.

Moreover, megadoses of antioxidants blunt the adaptive response to resistance training, essentially blocking this primary stimulus for growth/hypertrophy outright. They likewise blunt many adaptations to endurance training, including endurance training enhancements to antioxidant capacity, mitochondrial biogenesis, cellular defence mechanisms and insulin sensitivity.

Guys that blast more than 16 weeks 1x yearly for a few (3+, arbitrarily) consecutive years should be getting annual liver & kidney ultrasounds in addition to echocardiograms, and doing regular (3-6 mo intervals) 24-hr creatinine clearance testing, C-reactive protein, in addition to the standard bloodwork parameters everyone does.

 

[Biggerp73]

Moreover, megadoses of antioxidants blunt the adaptive response to resistance training, essentially blocking this primary stimulus for growth/hypertrophy outright. They likewise blunt many adaptations to endurance training, including endurance training enhancements to antioxidant capacity, mitochondrial biogenesis, cellular defence mechanisms and insulin sensitivity.

I know this is what the science says but Ive yet to see or hear from anyone that it has practical application. Most of us who are serious on here take mega doses of a half dozen different antioxidants and only see benefits from doing so.

 

[qbkilla]

Has anyone here ever had kidney issues that blood work and urinalysis did not detect? Meaning your creatinine was good, urine was free of protein, yet you had a kidney issue?

 

[Type-IIx]

I know this is what the science says but Ive yet to see or hear from anyone that it has practical application. Most of us who are serious on here take mega doses of a half dozen different antioxidants and only see benefits from doing so.

I've seen real-world evidence of this phenomenon. Sometimes I wonder if some of you imagine I'm locked in my parents' basement Googling sciency shit and don't exist in the real world...

But let's figure this out: what doses and compounds are you taking that you're referring to as megadoses of antioxidants?

 

[Biggerp73]

I've seen real-world evidence of this phenomenon. Sometimes I wonder if some of you imagine I'm locked in my parents' basement Googling sciency shit and don't exist in the real world...

But let's figure this out: what doses and compounds are you taking that you're referring to as megadoses of antioxidants?

Yes I do imagine that about you

Personally I take 400mg ubiquinol, 1000mg curcumin, 30mg bioperine, 100mg pycnogenol, 100mg nattokinase, 2,000iu vitamin D, 500mcg vitamin K1, 1,500mcg vitamin K2/mk-4, and 180mcg vitamin K2/mk-7.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yes I do imagine that about you

Personally I take 400mg ubiquinol, 1000mg curcumin, 30mg bioperine, 100mg pycnogenol, 100mg nattokinase, 2,000iu vitamin D, 500mcg vitamin K1, 1,500mcg vitamin K2/mk-4, and 180mcg vitamin K2/mk-7.

Yeah, don't view this as an endorsement of your supplement stack, but aside from CoQ10/ubiquinol (your dose of 400 mg is reasonable), none of those compounds are potent antioxidants that dose-dependently scavenge free radicals and crush ROS formation in skeletal muscle like vitamin C... In this study they gave the human equivalent of ~20 g/kg daily vitamin C (i.e., 2 g daily to a 100 kg man).

Curcumin, for example, modulates inflammation rather than crushes it and is anabolic. Vitamin D, anabolic (it's a hormone).

Most of these are beneficial in isolation, but I cannot comment on the interactions of all these in combination.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Guys that blast more than 16 weeks 1x yearly for a few (3+, arbitrarily) consecutive years should be getting annual liver & kidney ultrasounds in addition to echocardiograms, and doing regular (3-6 mo intervals) 24-hr creatinine clearance testing, C-reactive protein, in addition to the standard bloodwork parameters everyone does.

How do you do a 24 hr creatinine clearance? No training a day before and no creatine ?

Say someone does two month 500 mgs, then two month trt 150 mgs, then two month 1000 mgs, three month trt 150 mgs, then two months 1500 mgs, total time above supra levels would be on yearly , would be six months, which adds up to over sixteen weeks but taking more lower dose or trt breaks in between to be health concious,. Probably still good idea to get these markers right?

What if Doctor is difficult , won't do a certain test, like he wouldn't do a calcium heart test , forget the name, I had it written down and presented it to him he said it costs too much?

 

[bigains]

For nerve pain I take; 2 g vitamin c, 1200 mg ALA, 800mg Pamitoylethanolamide, 1000mg Acetyl L-carnitine. For heart health; 8g omega 3 epa/dha, 200mg coQ10. My liver enzymes are always slightly elevated and I am hetrozygous for the snp most associated with fatty liver disease/liver cancer and also am homozygous for a lesser MTHFR polymorphism; I take 400mg riboflavin, 5g creatine, 1g choline, 2600mg NAC, 1g tudca. For sleep 20mg melatonin each night. I still feel plenty of inflammation from training, great pumps, and can not tell much difference in my adaptive response from before I started taking these mostly antioxidants. I think it would take a truly ridiculous dose of antioxidants to notice a difference. Something like high dosed IV vitamin C and glutathione to make a difference in adaptation.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

As far s animals studies not relating to humans. On a documenary national Geographic

" about touch, they took our closest primates or relatives, group one and two and left group one together and naturaly they touched, hugged, like they normally do, and group two they isolated them, from babies, and it showed they didnt learn as much, became more depressed, and I think it said their brains actually shrunk. I do feel this study is relevant to humans. So many people dont touch bc their afraid they might get in trouble, like at work, just a breif tough, the video shows better ways to do this, a hug to parent, a massage and of course good ole how we were all born. It shows people who stop tpouch for a while becomee desenstaived to it but I truley feel that its neccessary as humans, decreases stress makes feel alive again. Sorry if off topic but this is important I feel.

​

 

[qbkilla]

How do you do a 24 hr creatinine clearance? No training a day before and no creatine ?

Say someone does two month 500 mgs, then two month trt 150 mgs, then two month 1000 mgs, three month trt 150 mgs, then two months 1500 mgs, total time above supra levels would be on yearly , would be six months, which adds up to over sixteen weeks but taking more lower dose or trt breaks in between to be health concious,. Probably still good idea to get these markers right?

What if Doctor is difficult , won't do a certain test, like he wouldn't do a calcium heart test , forget the name, I had it written down and presented it to him he said it costs too much?

This, I don't think a doctor is going to write an order for (and insurance cover) a 24 hour urine collection and creatinine clearance test just because someone asks for it.

 

[Biggerp73]

Yeah, don't view this as an endorsement of your supplement stack, but aside from CoQ10/ubiquinol (your dose of 400 mg is reasonable), none of those compounds are potent antioxidants that dose-dependently scavenge free radicals and crush ROS formation in skeletal muscle like vitamin C... In this study they gave the human equivalent of ~20 g/kg daily vitamin C (i.e., 2 g daily to a 100 kg man).

Curcumin, for example, modulates inflammation rather than crushes it and is anabolic. Vitamin D, anabolic (it's a hormone).

Most of these are beneficial in isolation, but I cannot comment on the interactions of all these in combination.

TBH kind of sounds like you are pulling stuff out of your ass. How do you know all of the antioxidants I listed don't have dose dependent effects, etc?

 

[Type-IIx]

For nerve pain I take; 2 g vitamin c, 1200 mg ALA, 800mg Pamitoylethanolamide, 1000mg Acetyl L-carnitine. For heart health; 8g omega 3 epa/dha, 200mg coQ10. My liver enzymes are always slightly elevated and I am hetrozygous for the snp most associated with fatty liver disease/liver cancer and also am homozygous for a lesser MTHFR polymorphism; I take 400mg riboflavin, 5g creatine, 1g choline, 2600mg NAC, 1g tudca. For sleep 20mg melatonin each night. I still feel plenty of inflammation from training, great pumps, and can not tell much difference in my adaptive response from before I started taking these mostly antioxidants. I think it would take a truly ridiculous dose of antioxidants to notice a difference. Something like high dosed IV vitamin C and glutathione to make a difference in adaptation.

Guaranteed you are blunting hypertrophy, but you sound pretty confident in your gains, so who am I to correct your firmly held delusions.

TBH kind of sounds like you are pulling stuff out of your ass. How do you know all of the antioxidants I listed don't have dose dependent effects, etc?

What if I told you I just know more than you because of raw ability and commitment?