SUPER SLOW TRAINING

[elg123]

IS this type of lifting any good as an adjunct to regualar speed lifting or is it worthless. DC I would especially love to hear your opinion, not as a replacment just something to mix in with regular workouts. If so what would be a good way of incorparating this into one's routine

 

[Dad]

Junk.

Developed as part of an Ostoeporosis Poject run by Nautilus Sports Medical in the early '80's. The lead technician was Ken Hutchins, who never trained seriuosly (if at all), and has few quailifications other than supervising some of Arthur Jones' ideas. THe other player in this was Tim Paterson, who runs T-mag - he was El Dardens' go-fer then, and of course Darden. They tried this with one of the up and coming pros of the time and nearly destroyed his career, then blamed it on his supposed AAS use.

Last I heard, Hutchins had a SuperSlow "Guild" that certified trainers in the use of this. They steadfastly ignore the large body of scientific work done over that last 100 years or so on muscle growth, but then they also ignore the fact that virtually no one gets results from this training, so...

For rehab, or osteoporosis patients, SupreSlow can be useful. For healthy bodybuilders, other than the first few weeks when it simply represents an unfamiliar stress - worthless.

 

[sbv]

Super slow is good for a laugh... brightens my workout everytime I see guys do it at the gym

 

[elg123]

Thank you, your advise is much appreciated. I figured this was true as It completley goes against how the nervous system works, There is a guy named Jorge cruise preaching this stuff on the Today show, The guy was less then half my size(and trust me, that is not saying much) and his description definatley set of my B.S alarm

Intrestingly though, I have a neurological disorder known as dyspraxia, my motor skills are very poor because of this, I have trouble coordinating my muscles, especially for explosive movements such as weight lifting. Do you think this would help improve my coordination or would it further hinder it(you said it had benefit for rehab), I would guess the latter, but you seem to be far more well versed on the matter then myself, and is there any type of training that would be beneficial for my situation as i am very prone to injury.

 

[ghostdog128]

Elg,
I have first hand experience with SS. About ten years ago, I tried it out and followed a plan written by El Darden as exactly laid out in one of his books.

My experiences, again mine only, tremedous strength gains in all muscles. At the time went from bench of around 185x5 to 325x5 after only a month (I was small at the time). Noticable strength gains after each workout.

Size gains were nominal at best except in my quads. I put around 2 inches on my quads in that month with everyone taking notice.

All I can say is give it a try for a month.

 

[VanR__]

I don't do superslow but I do stop and go some times. When you stop in the middle of a ROM and continue again. It takes all possible kinetic energy out of the motion so you can't cheat what so ever.
Like in a leg press. You go up 5-6 inches, stop but don't wait, then move again.
It kills my quads. Its instinct to want to kick the weight up like you see on most vids of people in the press.

 

[Dad]

Thank you, your advise is much appreciated. I figured this was true as It completley goes against how the nervous system works, There is a guy named Jorge cruise preaching this stuff on the Today show, The guy was less then half my size(and trust me, that is not saying much) and his description definatley set of my B.S alarm

Intrestingly though, I have a neurological disorder known as dyspraxia, my motor skills are very poor because of this, I have trouble coordinating my muscles, especially for explosive movements such as weight lifting. Do you think this would help improve my coordination or would it further hinder it(you said it had benefit for rehab), I would guess the latter, but you seem to be far more well versed on the matter then myself, and is there any type of training that would be beneficial for my situation as i am very prone to injury.

The reason tis can be of some use in rehab is becuase yuo can get the muscle to contract while not loading the joints in the same way as regular training.

Let's say yuo can bench 200 for 5 reps with the normal (NOT sloppy!) form, so say, 1-2 seconds down with control, then 1 second or so back up, but not explosive. To get that 5 reps with SuperSlow - 5 seconds down, 10 seconds up - yuo'll probably have to cut yuor weight in half to 100 lbs. So the muscles are certainly producing tension, but there's half the weight, so the joints have less stress. This has NOTHING to do with nervous system training.

In training the nervous system for srtength, in addition it disinhibiting Golgi tendon oragns, yuo want to try and get as many motor units contracting simultaneously as possible.

Ghost, I don't beleive yuo acomplished anywhere near what yuo claim. Either yuor record keepin was faulty, or yuor speed increased as the weights got heavier. I trained with Hutchins and knew many others who tried this type of training - most of us experienced, competitive powerlifters and bodybuilders. NOT ONE got anything even remotely resembling what yuo claim. Going form 185 to 225 I might buy, IF yuo are new to strength (vs bodybuilding) training. But 185 to 325 in a month? Even on AAS for the first time I don't buy ti. The connective tissue simply wouldn't be developed fast enough to support that (among other reasons).

 

[gten79]

Different effects are achieved through different loads which can be achieved by adjusting the time under tension.

Very heavy loads, low TUT equals mainly CNS stimulation (strength)

Moderate loads, moderate TUT equals mainly myofibril growth (actual increase in fiber thickness)

Light load, higher TUT equals sarcoplasmic hypertophy which means increase glycogen and nutrient capacity and also musclular endurance.

Has nothing to do with Volume, HIT, or whatever flavor of the month program people are talking about. Its about load. Always has, always will and there are several methods to achieve it.

One guy swears by his program, the other swears by his. They ALL incorporate basic criteria to achieve some sort of hypertrophy so arguing which ones is the best without looking at HOW muscle grows and what stimuli exert different effects is a waste.


There is never just one muscle or one type of hypertrophy you want. You want them all to extent but focus on one area a bit more for your own personal goal.

 

[Sampson]

I don't do superslow but I do stop and go some times. When you stop in the middle of a ROM and continue again. It takes all possible kinetic energy out of the motion so you can't cheat what so ever.
Like in a leg press. You go up 5-6 inches, stop but don't wait, then move again.
It kills my quads. Its instinct to want to kick the weight up like you see on most vids of people in the press.

Ive been training like this for about a week now, for example on pressing movements every rep I have been resting at the bottom for a second or so and then begin pushing, I have been keeping the rep speed moderate so its not really super slow training...... but it has been working well, Ive had serious muscle soreness but no joint pain at all, which is usually a problem.

I originally thought of doing this after reading a book on plyometrics and speed training which said taking the extended pause will loose the kinetic energy built up in the muscle tendon.

 

[Quad-smack]

Dad's right - the SS program was developed for patients with osteoporosis and/or arthritis. Not the type of program for a typical bodybuilder. I will say however, anything that can be done as a "work around" to accomodate a lifter with joint, tendon or ligament issues is worth it.
As far as mechanics & intensity goes - all things being equal, ie., proper form, Power = work / time. So, super slow training requires lower weights over a much longer period of time. Power output and foot-lbs. of work performed are DECREASED - as is the intensity but not necessarily the stimulation.
I think any type of different stimulus will result in adaptation to an extent - I won't say that you can't get something out of it. Just not that much if you are a healthy lifter / BB'er.
P.S. gten79 is right on with his post...

 

[ghostdog128]

Ghost, I don't beleive yuo acomplished anywhere near what yuo claim. Either yuor record keepin was faulty, or yuor speed increased as the weights got heavier. I trained with Hutchins and knew many others who tried this type of training - most of us experienced, competitive powerlifters and bodybuilders. NOT ONE got anything even remotely resembling what yuo claim. Going form 185 to 225 I might buy, IF yuo are new to strength (vs bodybuilding) training. But 185 to 325 in a month? Even on AAS for the first time I don't buy ti. The connective tissue simply wouldn't be developed fast enough to support that (among other reasons).

Sorry Dad, I should have been more specific. I had the gain in strength from 185 to 325 in regular tempo bench, not SS. I performed SS for one month only as an experiment, and when I switched back to regular training speads thats were I was at.

Believe it if you want, or not. I don't care either way, I have no vested interest in promoting any program, like I said that was just my experience with SS I did it for one month then went back to more tradition training routines, mainly for the simple fact that SS hurt to much and I was incredibly sore all the time. More so than from other types of training. Also, forgot to mention as you had in your post. At the time I was fairly new to training as well too.