Training on an empty stomach

[plang]

I must be training on outdated concepts then.

How beneficial could it be to spike insulin and then crash 20 minutes later?

Are you going to have energy when this happens?

Do you like to train with your insulin levels bouncing all over the board?

The only insulin surge I feel comfortable with at training time is from the aminos I take, but hey that's me.

I think everyone is different and if it "ain't broke don't fix it" ......I'm not talking about taking in 100g of dextrose....but maybe 20-30g of something like waxi maize.....I usually use insulin pre workout...so it's somewhat of a moot point for me anyways. I say do what works...but always keep an open mind...whatever source of fuel you give ur body it burns for energy....so if u eat a moderate protein and carb diet with minimal fats my body wants to use carbs for fuel....and if there are no carbs...guess what's gonna get burned for energy? First those bcaas....than muscle. I'm all about doing cardio in a fasted state as I usually wake up, take gh....do 30-40 minutes fasted cardio and than wait another 2 hours to eat. But I have never felt good doing a workout fasted
I almost seemingly feel the muscles gettig depleted and I can never get a pump...but that's me

 

[cpesloco]

great thread

 

[kingpeon]

Some interesting articles/posts on the subject of fasted training:

**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

And one showing you could potentially increase resting muscle glycogen by up to 55% training fasted:

**broken link removed**

Nice find! Explains why I like this approach to acute training nutrition.

 

[kingpeon]

Forgive me if I am not reading between the lines, however, I still consider when taking BCAA's is still training on a empty stomach.

I do this, I train in the morning, pop a thermo with a black coffee and some BCAA's then go train. Finish training, pop a few more BCAA's and have my protein shake with olive oil, uncooked oats & wheat bran. Feel freaking great after this

Have not noticed muscle loss, the only thing I can attest to, is I am not as strong as I would like to be.

I still dont see how I am muscle wasting.

I if Anabolics are in the mix and you train on a empty stomach, are we still muscle wasting?

I am just trying to understand the logic here.
Chip

The muscle wasting is minuscule under normal circumstances. I'm trying to maximize results, that's all. Preventing this catabolic response to training is simply one way, out of many, to accomplish this.

 

[kingpeon]

and if there are no carbs...guess what's gonna get burned for energy? First those bcaas....than muscle.
I almost seemingly feel the muscles gettig depleted and I can never get a pump...but that's me

Aha, this is exactly why I take the aminos before and during. There is a good chance that they're not going to be used for muscle growth during the workout itself, but they will be burned first allowing me to preserve as much muscle as possible under the stress of the training session.

As for the bolded, I'm fat adapted so I never have a problem getting an adequate pump from training fasted. Just another benefit from that diet.

Who says a pump is necessary for optimal growth anyways? That's a whole other thread right there!

 

[Chipper Jones78]

The muscle wasting is minuscule under normal circumstances. I'm trying to maximize results, that's all. Preventing this catabolic response to training is simply one way, out of many, to accomplish this.

The above response is much more sound knowledge.

Chip

 

[ketsugo3]

i MYSELF USE THIS IDEAOLOGY- HOWEVER I HAVE A HUGE BEDROOM AND MY ELLIPTICAL IS NEXT TO MY BED, MY BEDROOM IS A DOJO- SO I CAN WAKE UP DO A ROUTINE, THEN TWO SECONDS LATER HAVE A SMALL MEAL OR BELND UP A SHAKE, THEN BEGIN MY REAL WORKOUT. SOME PEOPLE GET DIZZY- YOU REALLY JUST NEED TO TRY IT AN PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO HOW YOU RESPOND. I TRAIN A FEW YOUNG GUYS. MOST IMPORTANTLY THEY NEED TO LEARN HOW TO LISTEN TO YOUR BODY. IT WILL TELL YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW. LOOK LISTEN FEEL AND LEARN THATS IT

 

[weltweite]

Well I won't want to touch on the science part of things, as it seems this thread has that covered but I can add in my personal experience.

I've trained in a variety of ways from empty stomach to full stomach at different times of the day.

What I have found is that I am my strongest and most energetic in the early afternoon after having 3 meals at least before my work out.

Strength stays up, muscles are fuller obviously from the carbs. Pumps stay longer, and I recover much better this way. I believe it's due to a mix of my circadian rhythm and food.

Morning work outs have always been horrible for me. Evening work outs are fine, however then I do not get to eat as much as I'd like because of sleep.

So my opinion is that empty stomach weight lifting does not work as well for me.

In fact I think Alan Aragon had a great thread on another forum with tons of studies backing his point that fasted cardio is no where near as efficient at burning fat, when compared to the more efficient fed state cardio.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=747976&highlight=alan+aragon+fed+state Here is the link with studies he posted.

 

[Creation]

Cons of training on empty stomach
-Your body releases more catecholamines when training in a fasted state.
-Most likely you will have less muscle glycogen available for ATP.

Pros
-No risk of having lots of insulin in the blood.
-Increase in GH which complements there being little insulin

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head which would scientifically effect a workout, the rest is going to be invidiual. I tried switching to morning workouts and I just could'nt do it. Best of luck

 

[myosin]

My Routine...

Wake up, take E/C, take daughter to school... from waking up to the gym it's about 45-60 min....E/C is kicking in strong and I'm in the gym sipping on a shaker bottle of 5 tblsp's LBA and water throughout my workout. Finish it before my cardio and stretching... still hungry again within 30-45 minutes after working out. Love it.

 

[reebokrunner456]

This is the only way I've trained for the past year. Haven't noticed a difference in terms of fatloss... over the years, I've tried just about every combination of macro ratios and all kinds of crazy timing as far as meals/workouts. In the end, the only thing that really mattered were the numbers of calories.

Interestingly, my current pattern/timing is to eat the day's worth of food in a ~2.5-3 hr. window (sorta like the Warrior diet, lol). This was not really by choice; rather, I was literally unable to fall asleep unless I ate the entire day's worth of food right before bed. Most days, my intense workout will be after work (~6:00-8:00 PM), so I'm almost 24-hrs. fasted; and right now, I have some of the best muscle tone/definition ever...

...then again, since my body has fallen into this crazy pattern, I've been using a number of things that prevent muscle loss (hCG, HGH, CJC-1295, GHRP-2, and/or var). If it weren't for one or more of these things, I would NEVER be able to workout fasted... in fact, I used to have to eat 15 min before a workout or else my muscles would cramp up!

 

[Fitness 500]

I don't know how you guys can seriously train on an empty stomach.

I have to eat something before I leave work and go to the gym or I get hunger pains. If I don't eat and start training the hunger pains are too much and get in the way of my training.

My last cycle I ran EQ for the first time and there was never a time I didn't eat.

 

[kingpeon]

Simple, amino acids will kill your hunger while you train. Training alone kills my hunger, but afterwards...

 

[comedycentral]

king this is a great thread.

so what would be your actual approach to a workout and how much?

i.e. 30 mins before 20gr amino only

amino sipped throughout workout

then amino only post workout?? or do you have carbs/creatine etc and how much.

 

[kingpeon]

comedycentral- One hour prior to lifting I take: two grams acetylcarnitine.

30 minutes prior: two grams taurine, two grams creapure or kre-alk, five grams leucine, five grams glutamine peptides, three grams citrulline malate, one cap Humanofort, 10-12 tabs Beverly Mass aminos, strong cup of coffee.

During: four Rolaids, five tablespoons LBA or 10 Mass aminos, water.

After: 12-14 Metabolic Diet Amino v.4, taurine, creapure or kre-alk, ALC, leucine, glutamine peptides, citrulline malate, and one Humanofort.

Hour later: one pound of grass fed rib eye steak, mixed greens salad.

 

[Ness]

I never noticed a difference between training while hungry or not. I tend to do pretty good with a few TBL of LBA b4 workout and leucine after. I never workout within 45 minutes from eating a whole meal.

 

[shadow11_290]

training on an empty stomach is like driving a car on E

 

[shadow11_290]

i like to eat a nice meal 20-30min before i train

 

[Sik Nutrition]

Hiit fasted, SFS of lyle, Wheight training fasted..

All of them result if the other factors are OK.

I follow the Intermittent fasting lyfestyle and i love to have a workout fasted

 

[GaJoe]

I never could keep my strength up or my mental focus..that went away fast when training fasted. I like to have 3 or 4 meals in...I'm a low carb/keto guy so you wouldn't think it would make much difference but I'll fall on my face if I don't get some food in me....I eat before I go to bed and eat as soon as I wake up...