Using strong orals during workout days only to increase progressive overload.

[bigzzz]

200mg EQ? Do you actually get any effect at all from that super low dose?

No, it is instead of using an AI. Bold keeps my estrogen in check so I prefer it over an AI.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Hi Luki,

I take it 4 times per week(those are my training days). I see what you are saying, but I noticed a pretty big strength increase already in the first week of using it. I think you are right about the testosterone part, but this is just more of a drastic increase in strength which gives motivation.

I know you addressed Luki but to echo his response. Let's face facts, you're "on" Tbol. Even on your off days. Congrats on shattering through your PRs. That's a great feeling.

 

[luki7788]

I know you addressed Luki but to echo his response. Let's face facts, you're "on" Tbol. Even on your off days. Congrats on shattering through your PRs. That's a great feeling.

I agree in 100%

 

[bigzzz]

I know you addressed Luki but to echo his response. Let's face facts, you're "on" Tbol. Even on your off days. Congrats on shattering through your PRs. That's a great feeling.

I agree in 100%

I agree 100%, and it builds up in the system.

But I noticed it from the first training so it isn't a placebo effect. I am sure I would feel something from it when I would use it only once per week, I might try that in the near future.

 

[luki7788]

I agree 100%, and it builds up in the system.

But I noticed it from the first training so it isn't a placebo effect. I am sure I would feel something from it when I would use it only once per week, I might try that in the near future.

as they say - "faith works miracles" and I'm not kidding

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I wasn't busting your balls. I'm just saying if you take it 4 days a week vs 7 days, I mean, we're talking negligible difference. I'm not saying it's placebo, just that your on Tbol. I actually like Tbol myself. But age hath caught up with me. As always though, do what works for you. And whatever you're doing is obviously working.

 

[BigNJ]

Some people don’t believe orals will increase muscle size unless taken everyday to keep blood levels stable. They look at it from a nitrogen retention point of view, instead of a progressive overload point of view. But what good are strong orals for building muscle if you can only take them 1-2 weeks before having to give them up altogether due to them building up in the body—causing horrible side effects. Taking strong orals less frequently with a good long acting test base seems to be the most sustainable way for many to make continued gains with strong orals because they can use them for much longer durations without all the side effects.

Of course orals would be utter useless for increasing muscle size if you don't take them according to their half-lives. Just like any steroid, take test prop 3 times per week and see if you will gain shit. On top of that, orals have a very short life span and need to be taken more than once daily to get any benefits from them. Orals and Injectables are the same in that sense.

Now if you believe they will help you get stronger lifts just before workouts then by all means do it that way, but I would call it a waste. A strong pre-workout will accomplish the same thing. Hell, Creatine with your insulin shot will be better than taking orals only pre-workout. That's not bro science, that's actual science. Orals and Injectables need to stay in your system for a long time to get anything out of them. As for some powerlifters who believe in taking 2 to 300 mg of Anadrol before lifting to max their lift or try to break a record, perhaps it works for a little span of time because AAS do work in different ways. I'd rather inject Superdrol or Test Suspension though. You're going to need a lotta of Anadrol or any oral to increase any lift that specific day. For bodybuilders I think using a good pre workout would suffice. That's the whole point of pre workout supplements is to give you that extra push.

 

[hevi-head]

Of course orals would be utter useless for increasing muscle size if you don't take them according to their half-lives. Just like any steroid, take test prop 3 times per week and see if you will gain shit. On top of that, orals have a very short life span and need to be taken more than once daily to get any benefits from them. Orals and Injectables are the same in that sense.

Now if you believe they will help you get stronger lifts just before workouts then by all means do it that way, but I would call it a waste. A strong pre-workout will accomplish the same thing. Hell, Creatine with your insulin shot will be better than taking orals only pre-workout. That's not bro science, that's actual science. Orals and Injectables need to stay in your system for a long time to get anything out of them. As for some powerlifters who believe in taking 2 to 300 mg of Anadrol before lifting to max their lift or try to break a record, perhaps it works for a little span of time because AAS do work in different ways. I'd rather inject Superdrol or Test Suspension though. You're going to need a lotta of Anadrol or any oral to increase any lift that specific day. For bodybuilders I think using a good pre workout would suffice. That's the whole point of pre workout supplements is to give you that extra push.

I’ve made some damn good gains on test prop m-w-f. Just saying

 

[qbkilla]

I recently did this. Train 4x a week. Went from 300 test 300 npp, to 300 test 50 drol pre (so 200mg drol). Basically swap out mop add drip but only pre.

I don't train for strength more high volume lately, Milos style, but I definitely felt I looked better and fuller on a daily basis than on 2 injectables.

The reason I did it EOD...in theory could run it a bit longer than dosing Ed.. considering I don't usually do an oral more than 5 weeks just to be "health conscious" lol I did 6 weeks now swapped it out for my first try of trest.

Only other thing I can add, I felt like 50 pre (4x a week) was every bit as good as when I used drol daily in the past.

 

[bigzzz]

Of course orals would be utter useless for increasing muscle size if you don't take them according to their half-lives. Just like any steroid, take test prop 3 times per week and see if you will gain shit. On top of that, orals have a very short life span and need to be taken more than once daily to get any benefits from them. Orals and Injectables are the same in that sense.

Now if you believe they will help you get stronger lifts just before workouts then by all means do it that way, but I would call it a waste. A strong pre-workout will accomplish the same thing. Hell, Creatine with your insulin shot will be better than taking orals only pre-workout. That's not bro science, that's actual science. Orals and Injectables need to stay in your system for a long time to get anything out of them. As for some powerlifters who believe in taking 2 to 300 mg of Anadrol before lifting to max their lift or try to break a record, perhaps it works for a little span of time because AAS do work in different ways. I'd rather inject Superdrol or Test Suspension though. You're going to need a lotta of Anadrol or any oral to increase any lift that specific day. For bodybuilders I think using a good pre workout would suffice. That's the whole point of pre workout supplements is to give you that extra push.

You clearly never tried it or are a shit responder.

 

[BigNJ]

You clearly never tried it or are a shit responder.

You clearly are clueless. Not going to argue with anyone who doesn't even know how AAS work LOL

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I’ve made some damn good gains on test prop m-w-f. Just saying

I agree. I've done T propionate MWF many, many times with perfectly good results. Once a week would be a stretch but three times per week...

 

[Mufasa123]

I agree. I've done T propionate MWF many, many times with perfectly good results. Once a week would be a stretch but three times per week...

Agree. 2-3 day injection interval for prop is totally fine. EOD or MWF works and super smooth. Not sure how someone would say it doesn't work. That's crazy and basically against the FDA tested, verified and approved. Acetate is shorter and I and many others have done EOD or MWF with that as standard and zero difference vs ED.

 

[luki7788]

I’ve made some damn good gains on test prop m-w-f. Just saying

I agree. I've done T propionate MWF many, many times with perfectly good results. Once a week would be a stretch but three times per week...

Agree. 2-3 day injection interval for prop is totally fine. EOD or MWF works and super smooth. Not sure how someone would say it doesn't work. That's crazy and basically against the FDA tested, verified and approved. Acetate is shorter and I and many others have done EOD or MWF with that as standard and zero difference vs ED.

but test prop has a half-life of over nearly 96 hours, so why wouldn't injections every other day work in his case?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

but test prop has a half-life of over nearly 96 hours, so why wouldn't injections every other day work in his case?

200mg prop MWF has been the foundation for some of my best gaining cycles. EOD, like you say, you'd still be inside the curve. I totally agree. Even aqueous suspension every other day would probably be fine. There was a time when that was all I could get. And it worked great. But I'm still glad the selection has grown. Nobody even talked about PIP in those days. It was just expected. And many a time I was using a tennis ball to rub a knot out of my glute or delt.

 

[Muay Thai]

Of course orals would be utter useless for increasing muscle size if you don't take them according to their half-lives. Just like any steroid, take test prop 3 times per week and see if you will gain shit. On top of that, orals have a very short life span and need to be taken more than once daily to get any benefits from them. Orals and Injectables are the same in that sense.

Now if you believe they will help you get stronger lifts just before workouts then by all means do it that way, but I would call it a waste. A strong pre-workout will accomplish the same thing. Hell, Creatine with your insulin shot will be better than taking orals only pre-workout. That's not bro science, that's actual science. Orals and Injectables need to stay in your system for a long time to get anything out of them. As for some powerlifters who believe in taking 2 to 300 mg of Anadrol before lifting to max their lift or try to break a record, perhaps it works for a little span of time because AAS do work in different ways. I'd rather inject Superdrol or Test Suspension though. You're going to need a lotta of Anadrol or any oral to increase any lift that specific day. For bodybuilders I think using a good pre workout would suffice. That's the whole point of pre workout supplements is to give you that extra push.

that part.

 

[Muay Thai]

I’ve made some damn good gains on test prop m-w-f. Just saying

me too, and even on less, lots of bro lore in here and whether science shows it on paperwork, these things do not always translate into actuality in RL anecdotal experiences, which is what I tend to lean towards when decision making, not to say I don't exhaust every resource first before executing based on conclusion

 

[bbxtreme]

I’ll let everyone else debate the whole orals working pre workout vs placebo (it’s a real thing lol).

But @emeric delczeg sent me a bottle of EcdyGrowth with my MMB 750 that I bought.

Not going to lie… I didn’t expect much. But holy shit… I gave it a week and dropped other things to make sure it wasn’t just “placebo”. That shit works. It’s like Anavar and Adderal had a baby. I’m a research guy so checked the literature and saw the study comparing it to dbol and fully can see why.

I’ll let Emeric chime in with the science and “how” as I’m still trying to get up to speed on it myself. But all you guys wanting a “boost” for your lifts pre workout- this shit does that.

 

[pistonpump]

If orals don't work preworkout then orals don't work at all? U eat it and your body processes it and it does what it's supposed to do. So whether youre taking it every day or every other it's still creating a response in your body being anabolic or stimulation it's still doing that whether you take it for 4 weeks every day or 3 days a week. Of course u aren't getting the build up and higher concentration with less peaks but the effects are still happening just my thinking

 

[bbxtreme]

If orals don't work preworkout then orals don't work at all? U eat it and your body processes it and it does what it's supposed to do. So whether youre taking it every day or every other it's still creating a response in your body being anabolic or stimulation it's still doing that whether you take it for 4 weeks every day or 3 days a week. Of course u aren't getting the build up and higher concentration with less peaks but the effects are still happening just my thinking

Correct. Just because something has a short half life does not mean it has not altered your biology and physiology.

If that wasn’t the case then we could all just use Anavar pre workout 5 days a week and not need any PCT after a cycle because our hormones and testosterone would be untouched.

Just because you only drink on the weekend doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact the rest of your week and physiology days to a week after.

Just saying…

Carry on debating.