VOLUME TRAINING vs. H.I.T....NO WAY!!!

[mike man]

Lats I agree...

As I stated in an earlier thread, high volume training with short rest periods (30-75 seconds) is what makes my legs grow.
I always trained very heavy with lower reps in the past (and back then 5-7 years ago it worked well) but found out thru painful trial and error that it was not the way for me. I could get strong as a bull (600+ squats, over 1000lbs leg press), but not stimulate clear and noticable size.
Within the last year though, I switched to this volume training for legs and it has done me wonders.
The rest of my body does not go into an overtrained state like my legs so my take is; people may have to experiment with different types of training methods for different muscle groups for maximum growth.
I try to periodize the rest of my body now so that is doesn't get adjusted to any one type and it also helps me avoid injury the best way for me.
I guess you can teach an (not so) old dog new tricks! lol.

 

[boing]

That 40 day number is strange to me, I know that if I take 20 days off then I can see a noticeable difference in size.

I thought the idea of HIT was more of a way to shorten the workout duration and up the intensity, ie lift day on day off plus extra recuperation day thrown in, not to only work a muscle every 20 days.

I need to research this some more I guess

Boing "the English_Bulldog"

 

[TonyFlags]

working out and eating works. plane simple done

 

[purplehz]

This is what I do
Mon. 5x5 curls
squats 5x15 just came off five's

Thursday Bench
5x5 thats it

Sat.
6x12 seated calble rows diderent grips
I am leaning up nicely was 23% 315 5'9
now 19% b/f 298 no change in diet.
See What you think I was a volume man
When I was told I was over training I hit the roof
Thanks purphz

 

[bigheinz]

where ar eu getting this 40 day figure? is it from one of the great studies mentzer talked about and yet ignored the other scientific studies which disproved the only ones he could find to support his views

any of us im sure can tell u if we take 40 days off from hitting a bodypart we will have lost size and innervation into how to do the exercise

if the rest in his programs are pre-determined, then how do u account for the individual who recovers faster then the one who does not

This 40 days comes form SUPER SLOW work of Ken Hutchkins, this is the variation of hit i am doing now, i train every 7 to 10 days never get descompensate. Every day i train i have more strenght and size.

If you do volumen work and you rest for 20 to 30 days the most of the times is becouse you are taking a rest or you cant train and you dont eat well and you loose size and strenght.

Hit stimulate muscle fiver to real growth and is very carefull with the recuperation. Recuperation and gaining size and strength are the first principles of every version of hit.

I have been training hit and some good clients too for 8 years, i never have the same shape i always improve my phisique as you can see in my pics of progress.

THE THING IS WHY TRAIN MORE IF YOU HAVE SCIENTIFIC TECNIQUES AND YOU CAN GET THE SAME OR MORE IMPROVEMENTS THAN VOLUME TRAINING= 5 HOURS 30 MINUTES WORKOUTS vs. 160 HOURS WORKOUTS.

Most of Pros are reducing volume of their workouts and adding extra rest days to get more massives phisiques, WHY?....Science is every where, How do you think they came bigger and bigger every year, ¿training more? no way.... more is not better...

BUT IF YOU DONT LIKE ANY HIT VERSION AND YOU WANT TO GET HUGE LIKE COLEMAN, LEVRONE, GUNTER, RUHL, YOU HAVE TO CREATE YOUR OWN HIT VERSION LIKE THEY DO AND FATHEAD DO, JUST TRAIN HARD, BRIEF AND ENFREQUENT, AND YOU WILL SEE AN IMPRESSIVE RESULTS IN FEW DAYS...

and remember........
The world is to little for the littles!!!!!!!!
Bigheinz

 

[Mr_Magoo]

and just who r these pros

 

[bigheinz]

What?

 

[rippedboy]

f

What?

you mentioned alot of pros are training hit, and he would like to know who these guys are?

 

[Mr_Magoo]

who are they, ill admit ive read of some people doin it but i also dont really believe what i read in magazines

 

[bigheinz]

I sow Cormier and Baker fallowing Mikes Mentzer Hit.
Titus, Prience, Lobarede and others are fallowing Dorian´s HIT.

I you analize the workouts of Coleman or Sombaty, they are performing a lot of Powerlifting tecniques, and they train only 40 minutes, very hard, and they reduce volumen and change their frequence of training.,
You can see on flexonline the Hit version of Shown Ray, who always used to do weider volume training, and now he says that he train "high intensity training" with this words !!!.

But i mean in the others replys, that you can make your own HIT version, training hard brief and enfrequent, and fallowing the fundamental principles of high intensity training.

and just remember.......
There is no space for the littles!!!!!!!!

Bigheinz

 

[xcelbeyond]

Good way of putting it bigheinz!

I believe there are many "variations" of HIT. Make it worthwhile by incorporating some form of "high intensity" (I SOUND LIKE BIGHEINZ HERE ). I just wish I'd have used it years earlier. I was CLEAN when it was first introduced to me and I BLEW UP (and I wasn't small either).

That's the gist of "Train smarter, not more" in my signature.

xcel

 

[Mr_Magoo]

look, im all for hit as i love it for many reasons but u cant make HIT an all encompassing term to say that alot of bb's do hit when they dont, cormier may have done hit once but most dont, plain and simple, sure ronnie has a short workout but its loaded with volume, and that is not HIT

Prince sure as hell does not follow HIT, go to chad nicholls board , he started a thread on HIT and how very few pros do it

 

[bigheinz]

When Cormier took 2nd. place in the Mr. O was training HIT with Mike mentzer and now he is not the same guy....
And like Xcel did one time, HIT is exelent for naturals bb , volume training overtrains and whit a dinamic rest protocol of any hit variation you have an quick opcion to grow.

But like i said i was 2 times national venezuelan champion in my country with volumen training but i will never do it again.

 

[Mr_Magoo]

I sow Cormier and Baker fallowing Mikes Mentzer Hit.
Titus, Prience, Lobarede and others are fallowing Dorian´s HIT.

I you analize the workouts of Coleman or Sombaty, they are performing a lot of Powerlifting tecniques, and they train only 40 minutes, very hard, and they reduce volumen and change their frequence of training.,
You can see on flexonline the Hit version of Shown Ray, who always used to do weider volume training, and now he says that he train "high intensity training" with this words !!!.

Bigheinz

once again ronnie has one of the highest volumes overall per week besides ruhl so dont use him as an example, titus may have switched but he has looked wore and cormier is still sick, he looked damn good thisyear at the o and gnc show with volume training

 

[feelnfit]

is it true

isn,t it true that while training no matter hit , volume , or what ever. iif as is used your strength increases 300% but recovery only50%?

 

[Mr_Magoo]

i dont really know what u are talking about

 

[feelnfit]

methods

the difference in recovery using different methods of training say hit-vs-volume training. my point was that while using gear even if your stregnth increases by 300% say your recovery time only increases only 50%.

 

[Dad]

I Don't Think So.

I posted this in an earlier thread, and thought it to be appropraite here as well.

HIT training has largely been a history of failure (no pun intended). I nkew most of the major proponents of these ideas, and they do not work for the most part. What is usually used as an example of the supposed superiority of HIT, is the story of some high-volume trainee abruptly switching to HIT and making miraculous new gains. This would happen with any radical switch in protocols. I've seen the same thing in those who went from HIT to high-volume.

Below is my original post:
HIT
I spent some time in 1987 with Nautilus before they were sold. They tried every version of HIT training you can imagine, and never got much in the way of results for bodybuilding. They then used this "Superslow" idea on a bunch of osteoporosis patients - most of whom were senior citizens - got some results in a group of people who'd never trained, and then tried it on bodybuilders with no results. At least one very promising pro almost had his career destroyed trying El Darden's training ideas. Not one pro who tried Jones' workouts stayed with them.

I know, what about the famous "Colorado Experiment?" Casey Viiator had been working for 2 years on an offshore oil-drilling rig and not training at all. He'd dropped from around 220, to about 160, then got injured, and was hospitalized, reducing his weight further. Jones then took him back to training, loaded him up with all the gear and food he could stuff into him, and lo and behold, Casey regained muscle he'd ALREADY HAD ONCE. This version is, of corse, not the one written in the HIT lore!

Along comes Mike Mentzer (whom I also knew). He takes this whole "HIT" notion to its logical, yet ridiculous conclusion, by having people train 2 sets every 2 weeks! Peolpe weren't getting gains at all, and of course not - they were DE-conditioning!

In reality, Dorian used something like Mike's 1970's version of HIT. This involved something like 3 exercises, 2 sets each, for chest, and maybe 12 total sets for back, while doing similar numbers of sets for other bodyparts. These numbers do NOT include warm-up 3 or more sets. Beginning to sound familiar? This is also NOT how he built his physique in the first place.

Someone in an earlier post above mentioned CNS exhaustion. This is precisely what you'll get, as well as adrenal exhaustion, with a steady diet of HIT. Since muscle fibres will recover in days, but CNS and endocrine recovery takes as much as weeks in some cases, you'll never be "in sync" on your recovery. Toward the end of his life, even Mike Mentzer was beginning to concede that "training to failure" may not be necessay for gains, but rather balancing training with recovery. His comment to me, off the record of course, was "It's all about recovery." This was not the stance he took in public, though. He had too much invested in all the years he'd promoted HIT to change anything.

Most HIT proponents blame the fact that they are "not training HARD enough" on their lack of gains, so they try to find ways to increase the "intensity." The fact is that few of the people who originated HIT had any understanding of basic physiology, were openly distainful of medical science and research, and created theories which remain unproven.

If I sound somewhat bitter, it's because of my personal experience, as well as that of hundreds (yes, hundreds!) of bodybuilders I've talked to who've been frustrated by a lack of progress while trying to use a flawed methodology. What's even worse is that they blame themselves as though it's some character flaw on their part which keeps them form training "hard enough." When I returned some years back to more conventional training, my progress resumed, and I gained back all of what was lost in the "HIT years."

Sorry for the rant, and thanks for your patience!

 

[Big A]

Re: is it true

isn,t it true that while training no matter hit , volume , or what ever. iif as is used your strength increases 300% but recovery only50%?

True. Gear increases your recovery ability, but also your strength and neuro pathways, so you do more damage to the muscles due to the increased work load, so you need the extra recovery ability that the gear gives you. You shouldn't be training more frequently just because you are on gear, that is if you train properly to begin with.

 

[qbkilla]

A good read I found while doing a search. I have tried HIT type training with little results. What are some good volume routines that you guys have used?