waxy maize

[marshall]

Marshall, you sure seem to be an intelligent fella. It would probably be a much better board if you could find ways to support the folks on here in their attempts to make themselves better instead of automatically detracting from something just because it is: new/unproven/or because Mentzer didn't do it.

Terry, I know there are a couple of regulars who don't care for my point of view.

How do I make the board worse? Can I not believe I am right?

How do I not support the folks on here? I'm not into competitions and don't follow them, I don't think I've ever said something negative to or about a competitor though.

I've complimented all the great physiques I've seen on here (Vander, JT, Hutch, Robroy, Gooey, mike...hell I even rated TP's physique better than Phil did and he hates me and wears Phil's nuts for a moustache).

Is it detracting to state that I know I could train you (just a rhetorical example as I don't know your regime), throw away all of your supplements except for vitamins/minerals/efas, set your diet to eat whatever you want and have you workout about 6 times per month and I can guarantee you will look better or at least make the same progress as you do now?

How is that being an a-hole or as TP points out, giving out advice that can hurt someone or is dangerous for a newbie?

I mean, I always take his posts with a grain of salt, because I consider the source of the material, but it seems to piss off some people (besides him) that things can be done drastically different.

 

[marshall]

I'm not saying Mentzer's/Marshall's ideas don't work. But they may not work for everyone. That is why there are alternatives. You shouldn't bash people so much for seeking them out. I'm not bashing you, for the most part I am amused by your posts-BUT, you always tend to post with so much sarcasm and negativty.

Yes, I agree. So stop telling people they are wasting their time when they are seeking knowledge of some other style of training or diet other than the Marshall B. Mentzer plan.

Yup, these people are whats called genetic freaks. They are going to look great by pretty much doing whatever they want (lucky bastards!!).

I try not to bash, I guess if I do come across a little "brash" it is just my writing style perhaps. I'm glad I provide you with something positive from my diatribes (amusement).

No one is wasting their time, but I've been around long enough to know that the guys like the regulars on this board are few and far between, your average gym guy who wants to gain doesn't want to spend a fortune on supplements that they really may not need, workout 4 times per week or stress over their macros, nutrient timing and whatever else kind of stuff bodybuilders are obsessing over these days.

You vets toss this stuff around because you are committed like that, I try to show the other side, the other angle, that it can be done the Marshall B Mentzer way !

 

[terryd5150]

I've complimented all the great physiques I've seen on here (Vander, JT, Hutch, Robroy, Gooey, mike...hell I even rated TP's physique better than Phil did and he hates me and wears Phil's nuts for a moustache).

Now that was funny, I don't care who you are!

Is it detracting to state that I know I could train you (just a rhetorical example as I don't know your regime), throw away all of your supplements except for vitamins/minerals/efas, set your diet to eat whatever you want and have you workout about 6 times per month and I can guarantee you will look better or at least make the same progress as you do now?

I have tried this. It DID NOT work for me. I really wished that it would, it would be so much easier than what I do now. But somehow I couldn't help but wonder if this was why "Heavy Duty" got the nickname "Heavy Dooty".

^^^^^^

 

[terryd5150]

I try not to bash, I guess if I do come across a little "brash" it is just my writing style perhaps. I'm glad I provide you with something positive from my diatribes (amusement).

Ok.

No one is wasting their time, but I've been around long enough to know that the guys like the regulars on this board are few and far between, your average gym guy who wants to gain doesn't want to spend a fortune on supplements that they really may not need, workout 4 times per week or stress over their macros, nutrient timing and whatever else kind of stuff bodybuilders are obsessing over these days.

True, but I'm not sure this board is geared towards gym rats. This is PROFESSIONAL Muscle, not Getbig.

You vets toss this stuff around because you are committed like that, I try to show the other side, the other angle, that it can be done the Marshall B Mentzer way !

Yeah, I think Mentzers theories would apply perfectly to the average gym rat.

Rock on.

 

[pimpman]

WOW its amazing how much a topic can change.i started the thread asking something about waxy maize and look where it's at now nothing to do with waxy.ok lets turn it back around.i ordered my waxy today from ********** but i got everything plain.like flavor and they give you like 2 more options of thing to put in it and i got it all plain.is this how most of you take it.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Is it detracting to state that I know I could train you (just a rhetorical example as I don't know your regime), throw away all of your supplements except for vitamins/minerals/efas, set your diet to eat whatever you want and have you workout about 6 times per month and I can guarantee you will look better or at least make the same progress as you do now?

How is that being an a-hole or as TP points out, giving out advice that can hurt someone or is dangerous for a newbie?

I mean, I always take his posts with a grain of salt, because I consider the source of the material, but it seems to piss off some people (besides him) that things can be done drastically different.

First off your first statment i bolded is complete BS. You are a moron for that statement... start a poll see if anyone votes on your side besides yourself (and this board is LOADED with vets and bodybuilders/strongmen/powerlifters with tons of experience.


Next off..... your advice is misleading. Your theory is rediculous and couldnt possibly be true. In fact its so rediculous that no scientist/study group would even BOTHER to waste his time and TRY to prove it to be true. Thats how apparently bs some of your theories are.

Last.... my credibility outweighs yours by metric tons. People on this board have watched my progress over the years as iv added close to 80lbs LBM. And it aint genetics sonny i aint special i earned every damn oz. of it. You havent said a damn thing that makes sense... you havent shown any pictures of yourself that show you know anything... havent shown a background in any type of fitness related field proving your are educated... and havent shown any evidence of anybody you have helped who has gotten results off of any of the BS you spew. You post no facts or science behind anything you say besides that BS chocolate milk study who was done by the company itself! Was it published by any credible organization? Exactly... crawl back in your hole and die... you will be gone from here soon enough and more than a few members wil be happy to see you go.

You have ANY idea how many people i know from these boards that you irritate with your nonsence?

 

[Grunt76]

Uh, I am not allowed posting about my experience with a certain company in here?

 

[rAJJIN]

Uh, I am not allowed posting about my experience with a certain company in here?

Is the company you speak of a sponsor here?
I dont beleive so, Why not take it up with them?

 

[GoneForever]

Ordered my 10lbs of waxy from trueprotien on friday night, and just received it today. Hands down the fastest T/A i've ever seen. Got a ? though. I dont think it came with a measuring scoop, so how should it be measured?

 

[troponin]

Nice meeting you Troponin,

In your opinion, do you think that it would be beneficial to sip on your WM drink during workouts, then after workout, drink your Whey isolate/BCAA's?

Then follow up 1 hour later with a regular meal?

Trying to get the best of both worlds between the protein and WM absorption without is effecting the osmolality of the WM.....while still benefiting from the protein/BCAA uptake postworkout.

THANKS!
MR. BMJ

I sip on a waxy maize, BCAA/extra Leucine mixture when training. I feel it is beneficial.

 

[km2000]

Man, you guys seem to get your panties in a bunch every time marshal states his opinion! let him say what he wants, if you look over his posts nothing in there is mis leading in any way. the chocalate milk thing is probably not the best way to replenish glycogen but he never said it was! he is speaking for the average gym rat that cant afford supps, thats it!....

tp4u
you seem to really be bothered by marshal and his remarks, his remarks about hit training have been proved many times over in studies and it does hold water! most gym rats over train drastically, dont eat enuf, and spend 300.00 a month on supps and dont gain! what he is sayin is if you concentrated a little more on diet, backed of the training and saved you supp money for some real food, the average joe ould be able to sustain his muscle if not gain, this is the average joe and not the advanced bodybuilder...

and who the hell here cares about your pics and crediibilty? you must stay awake at night thinkin of ways to gain and establish your credibility! it makes you look like an idiot bro.... liphted is one of the more intelligent people on this board IMO, I havent seen any of his pics or resume, do I care? no, why? because what he says make sense and he posts studies to back it... by your accord he carries no credibility.. think about it man! you dont have to be a vet or 280 ripped or a harvard grad to post here, grow up!

here is what you said in your post to marshal...
"you havent shown any pictures of yourself that show you know anything... havent shown a background in any type of fitness related field proving your are educated... and havent shown any evidence of anybody you have helped who has gotten results off of any of the BS you spew"

that was one of the most unintelligent and almost comical posts I have seen here! do you have any of these things besides your "massive ultra ripped rock hard leg shot" you posted for me in the other thread that established your superior credibility? haha.. (I hope you know i was just kiddin about posting the pic!)

tellin another member to crawl back in their hole and die! is a very cruel thing to say man, I wouldnt wish death upon anyone....

 

[gooey]

haha these threads....

I think what marshall is saying once again is that supplements are not for everyone and some believe so much that just becuz ronnie coleman uses BSN that they will be the next to deadlift 800 lbs 5 weex out of a contest. In a way marshall is right, many people need not to rely so much on supplements and rely on the basics: lifting heavy, eating, and recuperating. I love supplements and have used true proteins waxy maize and it has been the only real product that I have used post workout that I have actually felt the muscle start to fill out and without any running to the toilet afterwards either. I like waxy maize and all of the products that true protein offers, and will continue to use them. Marshall is free to his opinion and as brash and sometimes offensive as he seems, he's allowed to it. Just debate with him

Does anyone really know colemans and cutlers waist sizes? I assuming the 40+ inch waist line it directed at them. Lets find these measurements out and compare them to mentzer so we can understand the real story.

goo

 

[marshall]

First off your first statment i bolded is complete BS. You are a moron for that statement... start a poll see if anyone votes on your side besides yourself (and this board is LOADED with vets and bodybuilders/strongmen/powerlifters with tons of experience.


Next off..... your advice is misleading. Your theory is rediculous and couldnt possibly be true. In fact its so rediculous that no scientist/study group would even BOTHER to waste his time and TRY to prove it to be true. Thats how apparently bs some of your theories are.

I do exacty what I said in the paragraph that you "highlighted" for me.

You see TP, alot of guys want to look good, but don't have aspirations to be as big as humanly possible. Alot of guys don't want to travel around with shaker bottles and jars of protein, live exclusively on clean food, spend hundreds on supplements that are most definitely not needed to accomplish their goals.

You look at things from ONLY 1 PERSPECTIVE (YOURS), you are trying to get as big as you possibly can, compete, go to the highest competitive level you can. I'm not sure if you even have a plan after that, but you're young, it's not important right now. Do you know how many thousands of guys come to this board every day that don't share that goal?

The things I mentioned can be accomplished. I know how to do them. I DO THEM.

I know the vets and competitors on here do things differently and it works. I don't debate that. IMO do they need to do alot of the things they do? NO

I really don't even think you would consider training my style for 3 months to even give it a try, to evaluate it. You do what you like or as you are told and don't deviate from it. I know this. The only thing wrong with that workmanlike mentality is that you don't have a very broad horizon.

All of this kind of trickled down from the fact that I don't believe PWO shakes are needed and it humored me to see these guys running around the gym trying not to miss their window with this ultra-scientific mix that nutritionally can't measure up to a steak dinner in a nice relaxing atmosphere with some good company.

I know I can take away Gooey's waxy maize drink and keep his physique exactly where it's at, or maybe improve it a bit. That's just my opinion, you and Gooey may not agree, but that doesn't phase me or change my mind.

GO DRINK A CHOCOLATE AFTER YOUR NEXT 10 WORKOUTS TP....LET ME KNOW HOW YOU'VE FALLEN APART, IT'S ALL MY FAULT AND MY "ADVICES" WERE DANGEROUS AND MISLEADING.

 

[marshall]

I think what marshall is saying once again is that supplements are not for everyone and some believe so much that just becuz ronnie coleman uses BSN that they will be the next to deadlift 800 lbs 5 weex out of a contest. In a way marshall is right, many people need not to rely so much on supplements and rely on the basics: lifting heavy, eating, and recuperating. I love supplements and have used true proteins waxy maize and it has been the only real product that I have used post workout that I have actually felt the muscle start to fill out and without any running to the toilet afterwards either. I like waxy maize and all of the products that true protein offers, and will continue to use them. Marshall is free to his opinion and as brash and sometimes offensive as he seems, he's allowed to it. Just debate with him

Does anyone really know colemans and cutlers waist sizes? I assuming the 40+ inch waist line it directed at them. Lets find these measurements out and compare them to mentzer so we can understand the real story.

goo

Even though we agree to disagree alot gooey, I appreciate the backing.

I don't know, I saw Cutler's grocery shopping video and he looked ridiculous, that is not a bodybuilder, it's just a growth experiment.

From someone who loves a muscular physique, I would just look at that and say how stupid it looked. There are no aesthetics, nothing beautiful about his physique, he couldn't do normal activities physically to save his life. It's just sad to me to see how bodybuilding is perceived at it's highest level.

His waist is well over 40", no question about it, probably pushing 50 at least, he's big around as an old-style washing machine tub. Mentzer was probably under 30" no question.

Honestly 2004-2007 Jay Cutler can't even be compared to 1977-1980 Mike Mentzer. Phil's physique from the early-mid 90's destroys Cutlers. Bodybuilding needs to go "Back to the Future".

 

[marshall]

You post no facts or science behind anything you say besides that BS chocolate milk study who was done by the company itself!

Since you never explain yourself any other time, I expect you to ignore this also.

What "company" was this Indiana graduate student employed by that supposedly did the study?

You do realize it was a totally neutral study done by a student don't you?

Maybe you have some insight on Jason Karp that the rest of us don't though, I mean you do work for a supplement company.

 

[gooey]

sorry bro

once again all these numbers that are dealt r without any factual support. But I will respect you Mentzer rules all opinion. Cutler has no where near a 50+ inch waist, I sat an talked to the guy. His shoulder width is 2 times the size of mine. I think we need actual measurements b4 one can just throw information out there on "what they think they are" Bodybuilding is about illusion, ive beaten guys with smaller waists then me, but if ur shoulders are wide then it doesnt matter if u have a 50+ inch waist. I think mentzer had a great physique, but I think that many if not most could achieve that level of muscularity. To have the maturity, density, mass, and conditioning that todays BBer's have their is no comparison. That was the trend of the 70's and 80's and mentzer fit in well, I think today hed really have to put on 30+ of muscle to even b noticed IMO, not to mention his condition was not even close to todays amatuers on stage. We can agree to disagree, but lets get some supported, factual evidence out their b4 we make a decision.

goo

Even though we agree to disagree alot gooey, I appreciate the backing.

I don't know, I saw Cutler's grocery shopping video and he looked ridiculous, that is not a bodybuilder, it's just a growth experiment.

From someone who loves a muscular physique, I would just look at that and say how stupid it looked. There are no aesthetics, nothing beautiful about his physique, he couldn't do normal activities physically to save his life. It's just sad to me to see how bodybuilding is perceived at it's highest level.

His waist is well over 40", no question about it, probably pushing 50 at least, he's big around as an old-style washing machine tub. Mentzer was probably under 30" no question.

Honestly 2004-2007 Jay Cutler can't even be compared to 1977-1980 Mike Mentzer. Phil's physique from the early-mid 90's destroys Cutlers. Bodybuilding needs to go "Back to the Future".

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Man, you guys seem to get your panties in a bunch every time marshal states his opinion! let him say what he wants, if you look over his posts nothing in there is mis leading in any way. the chocalate milk thing is probably not the best way to replenish glycogen but he never said it was! he is speaking for the average gym rat that cant afford supps, thats it!....

tp4u
you seem to really be bothered by marshal and his remarks, his remarks about hit training have been proved many times over in studies and it does hold water! most gym rats over train drastically, dont eat enuf, and spend 300.00 a month on supps and dont gain! what he is sayin is if you concentrated a little more on diet, backed of the training and saved you supp money for some real food, the average joe ould be able to sustain his muscle if not gain, this is the average joe and not the advanced bodybuilder...

and who the hell here cares about your pics and crediibilty? you must stay awake at night thinkin of ways to gain and establish your credibility! it makes you look like an idiot bro.... liphted is one of the more intelligent people on this board IMO, I havent seen any of his pics or resume, do I care? no, why? because what he says make sense and he posts studies to back it... by your accord he carries no credibility.. think about it man! you dont have to be a vet or 280 ripped or a harvard grad to post here, grow up!

here is what you said in your post to marshal...
"you havent shown any pictures of yourself that show you know anything... havent shown a background in any type of fitness related field proving your are educated... and havent shown any evidence of anybody you have helped who has gotten results off of any of the BS you spew"

that was one of the most unintelligent and almost comical posts I have seen here! do you have any of these things besides your "massive ultra ripped rock hard leg shot" you posted for me in the other thread that established your superior credibility? haha.. (I hope you know i was just kiddin about posting the pic!)

tellin another member to crawl back in their hole and die! is a very cruel thing to say man, I wouldnt wish death upon anyone....

Didnt you say after Phil embarrased you that you were leaving and not posting here anymore? Why are you still here?

 

[Liphted]

What "company" was this Indiana graduate student employed by that supposedly did the study?

You do realize it was a totally neutral study done by a student don't you?

The "company" this graduate student was employed by was the Dept of Kinesiology and Applied Health Science, Human Performance Laboratory, Indiana University and funding from outside sources. Published research doesn't just happen on a whim. These investigators didn't just get together and say, "hey, lets do a study and we'll fund it out of our own pockets". Research at this level is always governed and dictated by funding. This is coming from a research scientist.

Here is a link to your study http://www.milknewsroom.com/downloads/stager_chocmilk_study.pdf

Found within the study, pg. 90,
Acknowledgments
This study was supported, in part, by the Dairy and Nutrition Council, Inc.

I wouldn't necessarily state that this study was "totally neutral".

 

[pimpman]

Man, you guys seem to get your panties in a bunch every time marshal states his opinion! let him say what he wants, if you look over his posts nothing in there is mis leading in any way. the chocalate milk thing is probably not the best way to replenish glycogen but he never said it was! he is speaking for the average gym rat that cant afford supps, thats it!....

tp4u
you seem to really be bothered by marshal and his remarks, his remarks about hit training have been proved many times over in studies and it does hold water! most gym rats over train drastically, dont eat enuf, and spend 300.00 a month on supps and dont gain! what he is sayin is if you concentrated a little more on diet, backed of the training and saved you supp money for some real food, the average joe ould be able to sustain his muscle if not gain, this is the average joe and not the advanced bodybuilder...

and who the hell here cares about your pics and crediibilty? you must stay awake at night thinkin of ways to gain and establish your credibility! it makes you look like an idiot bro.... liphted is one of the more intelligent people on this board IMO, I havent seen any of his pics or resume, do I care? no, why? because what he says make sense and he posts studies to back it... by your accord he carries no credibility.. think about it man! you dont have to be a vet or 280 ripped or a harvard grad to post here, grow up!

here is what you said in your post to marshal...
"you havent shown any pictures of yourself that show you know anything... havent shown a background in any type of fitness related field proving your are educated... and havent shown any evidence of anybody you have helped who has gotten results off of any of the BS you spew"

that was one of the most unintelligent and almost comical posts I have seen here! do you have any of these things besides your "massive ultra ripped rock hard leg shot" you posted for me in the other thread that established your superior credibility? haha.. (I hope you know i was just kiddin about posting the pic!)

tellin another member to crawl back in their hole and die! is a very cruel thing to say man, I wouldnt wish death upon anyone....

hate to get in this one but that last statement couldn't have been said any better.

 

[marshall]

The "company" this graduate student was employed by was the Dept of Kinesiology and Applied Health Science, Human Performance Laboratory, Indiana University and funding from outside sources. Published research doesn't just happen on a whim. These investigators didn't just get together and say, "hey, lets do a study and we'll fund it out of our own pockets". Research at this level is always governed and dictated by funding. This is coming from a research scientist.

Here is a link to your study http://www.milknewsroom.com/downloads/stager_chocmilk_study.pdf

Found within the study, pg. 90,
Acknowledgments
This study was supported, in part, by the Dairy and Nutrition Council, Inc.

I wouldn't necessarily state that this study was "totally neutral".

Well, if the Dairy Farmers had anything to do with it, it sure wasn't (isn't) part of a plan to take away the sports drink market or the dedicated persons PWO cocktail.

"At best" it may have been funded to show that there are some real benefits to milk, even for athletes. Milk has taken a beating in some circles over the past decade or two.

Honestly, nutrient for nutrient, low-fat chocolate milk is a great PWO cocktail on it's own. I know people like the complicated/scientific though, it makes it seem more beneficial/legit. Though I still would recommend to go home, shower, throw a steak on the grill, garlic red potatioes and some freshly sauteed spinach and enjoy some company for dinner.

No need for these average gym rats, not in "great" shape anyway, to be running around like a chicken with their head cut off looking for water so they don't miss their imaginary 'window of opportunity' to grow. (Which they never seem to do).

Like I said, no one's going to replace their cocktail with the same ratio of low-fat chocolate milk and show any degradation in their physique, I'm quite sure of that.