waxy maize

[marshall]

wait... so once you get proven wrong you're pretty quick to say it wont replace a PWO shake? i thought that was your whole reasoning for bringing this chocolate milk BS up in the first place?

I said that it WILL/COULD/CAN replace your PWO drink. Not sure why you got the different impression.

IMO, a PWO drink isn't needed. But I do understand after training some guys may not have appetites or be in a position to get a good balanced meal.

A quart of low-fat chocolate can absolutely replace any scientific compound that you think you can put together with powders to grow muscle. No question about it, but a PWO meal in the 'window of opportunity' isn't needed either imo.

I think that's about as clear as I can put it.

 

[SVFootball]

A quart of low-fat chocolate can absolutely replace any scientific compound that you think you can put together with powders to grow muscle. No question about it, but a PWO meal in the 'window of opportunity' isn't needed either imo.

prove it. post a study comparing chocolate milk to a scientifically enhanced PWO shake.

then ill listen to you

 

[marshall]

yea but those sports drinks are designed to be PWO drinks....

what about a study comparing a designed PWO drink vs. chocolate milk

that would prove something to me

Why are you sitting around waiting for a study to prove something to you?

You might die from malnutrition and lose 20 pounds of muscle if you try it?
You be the study, what more do you need? A lab rat to give you the go ahead to try something. lol

I and a couple guys I know haven't used a PWO drink in quite awhile and look better than before. I could care less about anyone elses studies or experiments. Try it, do it, then you will know if it works for you.

If you never try it, how do you know, because of a study? That is laughable really.

I told TP, use a quart of low-fat chocolate milk PWO for the next 3 weeks (I'm assuming he uses some fancy drink), let me know how your physique has been destroyed beyond repair and you NEED that drink to survive or don't even take in anything PWO, just eat your normal meals and adjust for the calories, let me see the catabolic results.

Not gonna happen.

 

[marshall]

gooey, I see a bright future ahead for you in the Marshall Plan.

I hate to do this but marshall does have some correct info on the post workout choc milk study, it showed to be more of a performance enhancer then other sports based drinks. Though the one flaw I found in it was that none of the other sports drinks (if I can recall correctly) had any form of protein in them, correct me if I am wrong. Milk products obviously have a full spectrum of amino acids while the other sports drinks may have been either some form of carbohydrate or stimulant or a combination of both.


**broken link removed**

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524370

http://onhealth.webmd.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=60002

im sure these studies r not without some bias, would have likes to see choc milk vs. sports drinks and some form of protein too
goo

 

[SVFootball]

Why are you sitting around waiting for a study to prove something to you?

You might die from malnutrition and lose 20 pounds of muscle if you try it?
You be the study, what more do you need? A lab rat to give you the go ahead to try something. lol

I and a couple guys I know haven't used a PWO drink in quite awhile and look better than before. I could care less about anyone elses studies or experiments. Try it, do it, then you will know if it works for you.

If you never try it, how do you know, because of a study? That is laughable really.

I told TP, use a quart of low-fat chocolate milk PWO for the next 3 weeks (I'm assuming he uses some fancy drink), let me know how your physique has been destroyed beyond repair and you NEED that drink to survive or don't even take in anything PWO, just eat your normal meals and adjust for the calories, let me see the catabolic results.

Not gonna happen.

ill go with milk for a PWO drink for 3 weeks if u promise to pay for my supplements when i need them after losing the weight ive just put on. and why change something that works anyways? i like my PWO shake. IT WORKS FOR ME! you're on here bashing this because we won't try it...WHY SHOULD WE!? personally, im making gains now...so why change?

ill take that bet....if ull pay up.

 

[gooey]

nah...

gooey, I see a bright future ahead for you in the Marshall Plan.

the marshall plan would involve only arm and chest training, little or no leg training; which would induce a polio like state for leg development, and lastly id have to grow my hair out like a hippy Hey Im a 80's bber I have lots of hair a small waist and no legs.... hahha Cant agree with u on everything hahah. I do agree with u on these last subjects though. The basics are lifting heavy (relative to the person), lots of good nutritous food, and sleep/recuperation. But I do feel supplements have a lot of credible, supported info on them. I will continue to use them and promote them to individuals that already have the basics down pat. They assist and they optimize.
goo

 

[marshall]

ill go with milk for a PWO drink for 3 weeks if u promise to pay for my supplements when i need them after losing the weight ive just put on. and why change something that works anyways? i like my PWO shake. IT WORKS FOR ME! you're on here bashing this because we won't try it...WHY SHOULD WE!? personally, im making gains now...so why change?

ill take that bet....if ull pay up.

I'm not begging people to change.

Do you think I don't know that most bodybuilders have OCD to a certain degree. I don't expect people to try something different, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a different way.

I'm not bashing anyone for not trying it. You are trying to prove me wrong and want to say a study was flawed and you have something that works to prove me wrong.

I don't sell chocolate milk, I don't train people for money. I don't have a motive for saying anything except trying to get people to look outside the box, because I know how in this hobby, it's easy to have a shut-in mentality.

 

[marshall]

the marshall plan would involve only arm and chest training, little or no leg training; which would induce a polio like state for leg development, and lastly id have to grow my hair out like a hippy Hey Im a 80's bber I have lots of hair a small waist and no legs.... hahha Cant agree with u on everything hahah. I do agree with u on these last subjects though. The basics are lifting heavy (relative to the person), lots of good nutritous food, and sleep/recuperation. But I do feel supplements have a lot of credible, supported info on them. I will continue to use them and promote them to individuals that already have the basics down pat. They assist and they optimize.
goo

I always have a good quality protein powder and protein powder with carbs in my pantry. It is good when you need it, life doesn't always work out around a well cooked dinner with all the trimmings.

I just know that I don't need it to improve or maintain or whatever the goal may be. I don't try to find some non-existent window of opportunity after I train, I don't try to take in (x) grams of this or that.

My body tells me if it wants protein or carbs or fats and I feed it. I look better than when I obsessed over everything and took advice from very top guys at the time. I know how hard it is for bodybuilders to let go of this obsessive behavior, because we all have it. I feel lucky I have, though I know there are some freaks like Vander around who always do what they want and look like a million bucks.

you forgot the 'stache btw. Mentzer probably has some good grooming techniques in one of his books.

 

[SVFootball]

I'm not begging people to change.

Do you think I don't know that most bodybuilders have OCD to a certain degree. I don't expect people to try something different, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a different way.

I'm not bashing anyone for not trying it. You are trying to prove me wrong and want to say a study was flawed and you have something that works to prove me wrong.

I don't sell chocolate milk, I don't train people for money. I don't have a motive for saying anything except trying to get people to look outside the box, because I know how in this hobby, it's easy to have a shut-in mentality.

but see the guys that go all out and have that OCD thing don't look at this as a "hobby." i know im young and just getting into BB, but i want it to be a LIFESTYLE! not a hobby. thats why im so set in my ways. they're working and i like that. thats just me. i mean i understand you like the "outside the box" mentality, but that just doesn't fly with me. i'm a scientific person and i need a scientific study to prove something. ill stick with my fancy, expensive PWO shakes.

o by the way...they cant be that expensive if i manage them on a student's budget

 

[terryd5150]

No No No!!

gooey, I see a bright future ahead for you in the Marshall Plan.

It's the Marshall B. Mentzer Plan.



GET IT RIGHT!

 

[Koevoet]

ill go with milk for a PWO drink for 3 weeks if u promise to pay for my supplements when i need them after losing the weight ive just put on. and why change something that works anyways? i like my PWO shake. IT WORKS FOR ME! you're on here bashing this because we won't try it...WHY SHOULD WE!? personally, im making gains now...so why change?

ill take that bet....if ull pay up.

I'll take that bet.

You drink 1 quart of milk post workout in the place of your shake for 4 weeks and drop 6% or more in bodyweight, I will send you protien and waxy maize for 8 weeks of PWO shakes.

 

[SVFootball]

I'll take that bet.

You drink 1 quart of milk post workout in the place of your shake for 4 weeks and drop 6% or more in bodyweight, I will send you protien and waxy maize for 8 weeks of PWO shakes.

really?

 

[kal el]

I Wonder

Why Coleman don´t use all this post workout formulas ?...the post workout for him is a solid big meal.If the guys put the same discipline and atention to his diet instea of a post workout shake only ,maybe we see a lot of better and huge bodies.I use a post workout shake,but for me,is not so important and not make such a huge diferent..Excuse my english...still learning the language.This post workout shake is like a religion already,some kind of obsession.Please,someone tell Coleman about this magic Wazy Maze,maybe his weight jump to 430 pounds.Or maybe Cutler can put 100 more pounds into his body,is he use wazy maze instea of Cell Tech...jeje.

 

[Koevoet]

really?

Yup, really.

Not that I necessarily agree with Marshall, but I honestly believe that 1 quart of low fat milk will work just as well for you as any PWO.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Its not about the shake. Its about the convenience and effeciency of it. Especially if taking slin, you cant be fucking around with slow digesting, slow delivery solid food meals or chocolate milk. Its easier to have a pricise mix for right after your workout instead of running home and making a meal or going out and ordering a meal. I have a solid food meal within an hour after my shake anyway. I feel it is more beneficial that way (wish Massive G would chime in here and shut Marshall up). I dont go crazy with some special concoction, just whey, carbs (my choice is WMS but dextrose is fine) and some BCAAs added in. Simple. To maintain i think its fine to niglect it, but to grow when you are already past your natural genetic barrier of what your body wants to hold... hey the shit matters. If you held any decent amount of muscle mass you would understand. I guess not....

And dude how can you bash creatine when its been proven time and time again. I guess there is thousands and thousands of placebo effected people taking this stuff huh? No caffein and energy drinks dont work either. Wow are we idiots, that is our mind convinced that it works so it puts out a large surge of energy! There is no such thing as a thermogenic. None of this stuff works. Who are you kidding here?

Marshall... listen to me. You are not special. You are not smart or innovative. You are not coming up with anything that hasnt been thought of. If it were in fact true it would be being done right now instead of all the PWO shakes. Mentzer was a freak bro.... GENETICS! You are not him and you never will be him as much as you wack off to his pictures every night, probably grew a similar mustache and pray every day to be like him. Stop comparing him to the general public. Just like Paul Dillet its been said he could grow mowing lawns. Tiny bit of juice n those guys blow up. Doesnt matter what they eat or what they do. WE ARE NOT THEM. Jeeze when are you going to get it?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Why Coleman don´t use all this post workout formulas ?...the post workout for him is a solid big meal.If the guys put the same discipline and atention to his diet instea of a post workout shake only ,maybe we see a lot of better and huge bodies.I use a post workout shake,but for me,is not so important and not make such a huge diferent..Excuse my english...still learning the language.This post workout shake is like a religion already,some kind of obsession.Please,someone tell Coleman about this magic Wazy Maze,maybe his weight jump to 430 pounds.Or maybe Cutler can put 100 more pounds into his body,is he use wazy maze instea of Cell Tech...jeje.

You might want to ask Cutler himself on that one (as I understand it he absolutely loves Vitargo but cant say it openly)

As for Coleman, I guess by your equation we all have those genetics and we all should be eating at Outback Steak house 2x a day (AHA!!! Finally the pro's hidden secret! Outback Steak House!)

Its just this simple....I could care less if anyone uses waxy maize or Marshall's cutting edge plan of a big glass of milk with hersheys syrup (How much of the adult population is lactose intolerant percentage wise now? 60-75%? that should work well)......dont want to use WM? dont! Myself Im a fasttrack kind of guy. I dont like taking the slow route to somewhere. I dont like catabolism and I want to replenish glycogen stores post workout (with bcaa's riding the carrier) as quickly as humanly possible......a glass of milk isnt going to get the job done (I believe we are the only mammals on earth that continues to drink milk after the developing years, maybe the lactose intolerance epidemic today among adults is natures hint that the animal kingdom is a little bit smarter than us in some ways)

 

[kal el]

Well

I can´t do that,i don´t have access to the elite pro yet like you Mr.Dante..No doubt about you say.I just have his book and his dvds,not a big think..but my point is tha if you don´t wach your solid meals,your whole diet,and don´t have the genetics,all the waxy maze in the word dont do a huge diferent.by the way,i just joking.I Know Coleman is a freak of nature with superior genetics,a big exception to the rule,But for me,a steak with potatos is better than vitargo.it works for me.Outback steak House is close in my country for tax evasion.I use a post workout shake,L-arginine,Glutamine,Creatine,taurine,BCAA..but is not the most important factor in my diet,whole food is.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I can´t do that,i don´t have access to the elite pro yet like you Mr.Dante..No doubt about you say.I just have his book and his dvds,not a big think..but my point is tha if you don´t wach your solid meals,your whole diet,and don´t have the genetics,all the wazy maze in the word dont do a huge diferent.by the way,i just joking.I Know Coleman is a freak of nature with superior genetics,a big exception to the rule,But for me,a steak with potatos is better than vitargo.it works for me.Outback steak House is close in my country for tax evasion.

Trust me Ill be the first one to say (and youll see many posts by me online saying just this)

a)solid food is the number one priority in a bodybuilders diet
b)When people ask me what supplements to take, I say a good protein powder and creatine and thats it........if they have money to burn then play around with other things but a good protein powder for meals when your on the run and creatine should be the basic staples and noone should ever 'rob Peter to pay Paul' to pay for supplements out of the norm of those basic two (creat/protein)

 

[kal el]

I guess we are in the same train then.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Trust me Ill be the first one to say (and youll see many posts by me online saying just this)

a)solid food is the number one priority in a bodybuilders diet
b)When people ask me what supplements to take, I say a good protein powder and creatine and thats it........if they have money to burn then play around with other things but a good protein powder for meals when your on the run and creatine should be the basic staples and noone should ever 'rob Peter to pay Paul' to pay for supplements out of the norm of those basic two (creat/protein)

AGREED!

haha so marshall has Cutler, a number of other pros, tons of amateurs, DC, Troponin, and Massive G (read his articles) against him on this one. I wonder who we should listen to? LMAO!