What macro do you increase first for lean mass?

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

Please discuss...

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

I do not think its about that.........a diet is there to support your muscle growth while keeping you lean............if you are looking to increase lean mass it must be from training/hormone manipulation. Do not expect more from a diet than it can realisticaly give you..........use it wisely for what it is intended for.

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

Interesting...

PHIL HERNON said:
I do not think its about that.........a diet is there to support your muscle growth while keeping you lean............if you are looking to increase lean mass it must be from training/hormone manipulation. Do not expect more from a diet than it can realisticaly give you..........use it wisely for what it is intended for.

So to understand better, one's diet is designed to control other factors, rather than a major component of adding mass?

Training and hormone manipulations are to be focused on primarily for gaining mass, correct?

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

Ness said:
So to understand better, one's diet is designed to control other factors, rather than a major component of adding mass?

Training and hormone manipulations are to be focused on primarily for gaining mass, correct?

I would say so yes.......I see guys talking about how much bigger they got changing macros around........I would like to see their AAS use/training routine first.......unless their diet was void of protein or fats, it is really a silly thing to say, unless they are promoting some guru/trainer, then I understand.

SmallTownIron · Dec 11, 2009

I'm wondering the ame thing.

Ness said:
So to understand better, one's diet is designed to control other factors, rather than a major component of adding mass?

Training and hormone manipulations are to be focused on primarily for gaining mass, correct?

SmallTownIron · Dec 11, 2009

Phil, while using AAS, what the highest and the average protien intake you have seen when it come to grams per pound? I know it varies with everyone, but that why I'm asking on average.

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

SmallTownIron said:
Phil, while using AAS, what the highest and the average protien intake you have seen when it come to grams per pound? I know it varies with everyone, but that why I'm asking on average.

I really am not sure....I would never go by the pound.....you need somewhat of a balance FOR YOU.....some need more carbs, some need more protein.....it depends on many things....but I would say most fall in the category of 30-50% protein needs of caloric total

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
I would say so yes.......I see guys talking about how much bigger they got changing macros around........I would like to see their AAS use/training routine first.......unless their diet was void of protein or fats, it is really a silly thing to say, unless they are promoting some guru/trainer, then I understand.

Okay I think I get what your saying. So how does one know when to eat more in order to provide support for the mass that they are building per training and hormone manipulation? Is there a point when the current meal macros no longer support mass growth?

I suppose this is why you eat ONLY when hungry, correct?

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

Ness said:
Okay I think I get what your saying. So how does one know when to eat more in order to provide support for the mass that they are building per training and hormone manipulation? Is there a point when the current meal macros no longer support mass growth?

I suppose this is why you eat ONLY when hungry, correct?

Yes, there is no better indicator.......AS LONG AS you are sticking to your macros AND the rest of the plan......there is no better indicator.........because believe me, I am ALWAYS HUNGRY for banana cream pie.

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
Yes, there is no better indicator.......AS LONG AS you are sticking to your macros AND the rest of the plan......there is no better indicator.........because believe me, I am ALWAYS HUNGRY for banana cream pie.

hahahaha...oh yes, I will pay you for 2 blizzards tomorrow for 1 today.

Okay, now that my poll means squat, can I ask some other diet questions?

If I am supporting my lean mass with a set of meal macros and eating when hungry, but am maintaining body fat levels, would you then examine macro manipulation?

muscledoc1 · Dec 11, 2009

Yes i agree with Phil also,but how about when your'e adding insulin?

concreteguy · Dec 11, 2009

Ness said:
hahahaha...oh yes, I will pay you for 2 blizzards tomorrow for 1 today.

Okay, now that my poll means squat, can I ask some other diet questions?

If I am supporting my lean mass with a set of meal macros and eating when hungry, but am maintaining body fat levels, would you then examine macro manipulation?

Doesnt it all come down to maintenance calorie surplus/deficit. I would run a calorie deficit and increase the protien % while trying to lose fat.

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

concreteguy said:
Doesnt it all come down to maintenance calorie surplus/deficit. I would run a calorie deficit and increase the protien % while trying to lose fat.

Yes, thats the question. However, if you are always on the path to GAINING mass and LOSING adipose tissue, is it really as simple as a calorie deduction and protein % increase? Im not sure that it works that easily?

Why not instead of going calorie deficit (whatever that means and how do you figure that out?), but ADD more EFAs to burn more fat? See what Im getting at?

concreteguy · Dec 11, 2009

Ness said:
Yes, thats the question. However, if you are always on the path to GAINING mass and LOSING adipose tissue, is it really as simple as a calorie deduction and protein % increase? Im not sure that it works that easily?

Why not instead of going calorie deficit (whatever that means and how do you figure that out?), but ADD more EFAs to burn more fat? See what Im getting at?

Buy increasing the protien calories you will minimise the muscle loss. I think in order to make muscle or fat you have to have a surplus of calories to do it. The opposite can be said for loosing either.
To figure your maintenance calories go to google and ask it that question. Maintenance calories are the amount it takes to maintain homeostasis.

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

concreteguy said:
Buy increasing the protien calories you will minimise the muscle lose. I think in order to make muscle or fat you have to have a surplus of calories to do it. The opposit can be said for loosing either.
To figure your maintenance calories go to google and ask it that question. Maintenance calories are the amount it takes to maintain homeostasis.

Well thats too generic and I dont buy it. No chart or formula is smart enough to say you need "x" amount of calories today and the next day after.

After reading what Phil has said in this thread, I think what you need is more hormone supplementation. Period.

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

Ness said:
Well thats too generic and I dont buy it. No chart or formula is smart enough to say you need "x" amount of calories today and the next day after.

After reading what Phil has said in this thread, I think what you need is more hormone supplementation. Period.

Maintenance calories........dont fall into the trap of believing a number because it always changes.....do we need a surplus to gain muscle mass? Sometimes yes.......sometimes no....would more protein be a factor in this? Absolutely........

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

muscledoc1 said:
Yes i agree with Phil also,but how about when your'e adding insulin?

How much time do you have? Hahahhahahahha..........good question though

concreteguy · Dec 11, 2009

Ness said:
Well thats too generic and I dont buy it. No chart or formula is smart enough to say you need "x" amount of calories today and the next day after.

After reading what Phil has said in this thread, I think what you need is more hormone supplementation. Period.

Ness, did you really think you would go to google and find something that isnt generic? A starting point? While your playing around with your hormone supplementation hopefully your losing fat as you want. However, the odds are your hormone supps will only be helping you hold onto what you have already built and keep it hard looking as you lose fat. Good luck!

concreteguy · Dec 11, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
Maintenance calories........dont fall into the trap of believing a number because it always changes.....do we need a surplus to gain muscle mass? Sometimes yes.......sometimes no....would more protein be a factor in this? Absolutely........

When can you make muscle in a calorie deficit? I didnt say maintenance calories never change. and I'm not talking about a pro with a ton of muscle memory thats been on just low test and slin/hgh for a few months ballooning up into prep when he hits juice hard. Phil, could you please answer this? I think it's a really good question.

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

concreteguy said:
When can you make muscle in a calorie deficit? I didnt say maintenance calories never change. and I'm not talking about a pro with a ton of muscle memory thats been on just low test and slin/hgh for a few months ballooning up into prep when he hits juice hard. Phil, could you please answer this? I think it's a really good question.

The best answer/explanation is here in the competitors that lose weight and keep getting stronger for a show......there lies the answer for all practical purposes........maybe not on paper, but in the real world, it happens..