Interesting perspective on the benefits of DECA

[Cyrano77]

That's too bad I really like NPP but again what products we use does not have adverse effect

 

[Knight9]

A bit of a side step..but are Organon and Norma Hella HG Deca still even around? I feel I havent seen any or seen them offered in YEARS.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[btails]

A bit of a side step..but are Organon and Norma Hella HG Deca still even around? I feel I havent seen any or seen them offered in YEARS.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Organon and nandrodec are on a list

 

[samgraves82]

Wow. Feel better bout my scripted 120 mg now

 

[samgraves82]

That's too bad I really like NPP but again what products we use does not have adverse effect

If we're totally honest a lot of what we use some compounds for are for the side effects. Aggression water in joints etc

 

[LK3]

odd perspective.

how does one determine effect vs side effect at that point.

 

[Knight9]

LOL....a desired effect is not a side effect.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Nandrolone is the only thing that relieves my joint pain issues. I love it.

what is the minimum dosage this works for you?

 

[jeroendebleser]

what is the minimum dosage this works for you?

I've found as little as 100 mg per week is enough to have the joint lubrication-effect.

 

[Zero2100]

Strange.. I know a guy that's in his 60s using test and deca and his doctor told him his heart is like a 25 year old. Maybe some people has a different effect.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I've found as little as 100 mg per week is enough to have the joint lubrication-effect.

That's what I am going to drop down to. I have love/hate relationship with Deca...nothing I've ever taken has made me grow as well as it does but its so fucking hard not to get nip issues with it. Even on SERM and AI and keeping deca dose around 300mg/week I still get issues...bleh. Been down the prami/caber road too and I hate the side effects of it so its impossible for me.

I love the joint lubrication so I'm going to try to run 100mg/week and see if I retain that then I'll be happy - of course I'll lose the growth from it but oh well.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Strange.. I know a guy that's in his 60s using test and deca and his doctor told him his heart is like a 25 year old. Maybe some people has a different effect.

There's always going to be anomalies/outliers but you can't take them as the rule. (or at least, that wouldn't be wise to do)

 

[jeroendebleser]

That's what I am going to drop down to. I have love/hate relationship with Deca...nothing I've ever taken has made me grow as well as it does but its so fucking hard not to get nip issues with it. Even on SERM and AI and keeping deca dose around 300mg/week I still get issues...bleh. Been down the prami/caber road too and I hate the side effects of it so its impossible for me.

I love the joint lubrication so I'm going to try to run 100mg/week and see if I retain that then I'll be happy - of course I'll lose the growth from it but oh well.

Never considered gyno-surgery? Must really be a pain in the ass to have to constantly manage gyno coming from different sources. (Especially since imo ALL ancillaries, except for Proviron, suck. I hate AI's, Nolvadex, Clomid, DA-agonists,... They all make me feel like shit which is enough reason for me to never use them again) If you can afford gyno-surgery and plan on juicing for years to come, I would definitely look into it.

 

[Bio]

Here is the study about Nandrolone being 11 times more damaging to blood vessels than Testosterone. If he's only talking about 200mg a week, that's a lot different than 600mg to 1,000mg of Deca a week which are bodybuilder dosages.

https://www.ergo-log.com/nandrotest.html

 

[bad rad]

what is the minimum dosage this works for you?

I typically stick to 200mgs weekly.

 

[MR. BMJ]

300mg of NPP does me real well...100mg on Mon/Wed/Fri....or even EOD.

 

[pimpman]

Do any of you guys get sick from dropping from your cycle blast to try doses? I suffer from anxiety and take meds for it but while I'm blasting I can go without my med because I don't get anxiety. I just take it once in a while to sleep. But for years seems everytime I go from blasting say 600mg test with some deca to just 250mg test a week my anxiety is extremely bad. I mean really bad and I feel really weird all around. My mind goes crazy
I feel depressed and cant put any food in my mouth.bloodwork shows everything is perfect except estro being high.anyone else ever suffers like this??

 

[Sides]

Do any of you guys get sick from dropping from your cycle blast to try doses? I suffer from anxiety and take meds for it but while I'm blasting I can go without my med because I don't get anxiety. I just take it once in a while to sleep. But for years seems everytime I go from blasting say 600mg test with some deca to just 250mg test a week my anxiety is extremely bad. I mean really bad and I feel really weird all around. My mind goes crazy
I feel depressed and cant put any food in my mouth.bloodwork shows everything is perfect except estro being high.anyone else ever suffers like this??

To be honest, yes, I have the same problem as you. I have always suffered to some degree or another from OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) and anxiety. But I feel much better, and much less anxious, at higher doses like 400 - 600mg per week of test, rather than when I have to drop the dose to 200mg for my TRT blood tests.

At 200mg per week of test only, my OCD and anxiety really go through the roof, and I am depressed and miserable. At 400mg per week, I feel much better and relatively normal and not depressed at all. At 600mg a week, I am happy and downright euphoric.

Testosterone, DHT, and other steroids have potent effects at the GABA-a receptors (same ones effected by benzodiazepines like Valium), as well as dopamine, serotonin, and other neurotransmitters. This is still an emerging field of study, and most of the studies that have been done are on animals (usually rats.) So you have to take all of this with a grain of salt and a certain amount of skepticism.

But I know that for myself, when I am at 200mg my OCD and anxiety go crazy, and I am so depressed that I have been advised by my endocrinologist and other doctors to get on an anti-depressant. But at 400-600mg of test per week, I feel much better and not depressed at all.

Everyone else in my family is on various antidepressants and anxiety meds. But for me, quite literally, testosterone and the gym have always been my anti-depressants. When I am on TRT doses I feel anxious and depressed, on higher doses I feel much better, happy and easy-going.

So you and I are in the same boat, along with a lot of other guys if they want to admit it. The question is, what do we do about it? Is it healthier to cut the gear down to TRT levels, and have to go on anxiety meds and anti-depressants? Or would it actually be healthier in some cases to just stay on higher amounts of test and other steroids? I suppose that depends on each individual and their own personal situation. But I know for myself, I feel much better on higher amounts of test and certain other steroids. Some gear raises anxiety and aggression, others decrease it. All of this is individual and everyone has to try things out for themselves to see what works best for them.

Frontiers | On the Role of Testosterone in Anxiety-Like Behavior Across Life in Experimental Rodents

Testosterone affects brain functions and might explain some of the observed behavioral sex differences. Animal models may help in elucidating the possible in...

www.frontiersin.org

"The anxiolytic-like effect of testosterone has been revealed in gonadally intact healthy animals, as well (64–66). However, testosterone can be either reduced by 5α-reductase to the more potent androgen dihydrotestosterone, or aromatized by aromatase to estradiol converting the androgen to estrogen activity. In brain, dihydrotestosterone can be further metabolized to 5α-androstane-3α,17β-diol (3α-diol) and to 5α-androstane-3β,17β-diol (3β-diol), neuroactive steroids possessing neuromodulatory activity (67). One of the most cited study investigating the rapid effects of testosterone on anxiety-like behavior in mice has suggested that the anxiolytic effect of testosterone is mediated by its 5α-reduced metabolites (64). Likewise, it has been proved that administration of 3α-diol decreases anxiety-like behavior in male rats (52, 59, 60, 63) as well as in female rats (68), while inhibition of testosterone metabolism to 3α-diol increases anxiety in male rats (62). Similar to effect of hormone administration, sexual experience and the exposure of intact male rats or mice to female subjects may decrease anxiety-like behavior associated with increased concentration of testosterone in plasma and hippocampus, as well as increased hypothalamic testosterone and 3α-diol concentration (64, 69). On the other hand, estradiol (61) and another metabolite of testosterone, androsterone (70), may cause anxiolysis, as well. Fernández-Guasti and Martínez-Mota (54) have shown that repeated administration of testosterone, but not a single injection of testosterone, nor treatment with 3α-diol or androsterone produced anxiolysis in male gonadectomized rats (54). According to published data, the manifestation of the anxiolytic-like effect of testosterone or its metabolites is highly dependent on dose and duration of treatment (54, 58, 64, 65, 71).

Due to its complex metabolism, the effects of testosterone might be mediated through different mechanisms of action. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are ligands of the androgen receptor. The latter binds with a greater affinity to the receptor and activates gene transcription resulting in an increased androgen activity (72). The role of androgen signaling in the regulation of anxiety-related behavior was demonstrated by administration of the androgen receptor antagonist flutamide (52, 54, 66), but also using the animal model of testicular feminization mutation (73–76) and androgen receptor knockout mice (77). In addition, it has been shown that some selective androgen receptor modulators may exert neuroprotective effects (78) and may affect some behavioral and brain functions (79–83). However, experimental studies examining their effects on anxiety important for the deeper understanding of the association between testosterone and anxiety, but potentially also for therapeutic applications are lacking."

 

[pimpman]

To be honest, yes, I have the same problem as you. I have always suffered to some degree or another from OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) and anxiety. But I feel much better, and much less anxious, at higher doses like 400 - 600mg per week of test, rather than when I have to drop the dose to 200mg for my TRT blood tests.

At 200mg per week of test only, my OCD and anxiety really go through the roof, and I am depressed and miserable. At 400mg per week, I feel much better and relatively normal and not depressed at all. At 600mg a week, I am happy and downright euphoric.

Testosterone, DHT, and other steroids have potent effects at the GABA-a receptors (same ones effected by benzodiazepines like Valium), as well as dopamine, serotonin, and other neurotransmitters. This is still an emerging field of study, and most of the studies that have been done are on animals (usually rats.) So you have to take all of this with a grain of salt and a certain amount of skepticism.

But I know that for myself, when I am at 200mg my OCD and anxiety go crazy, and I am so depressed that I have been advised by my endocrinologist and other doctors to get on an anti-depressant. But at 400-600mg of test per week, I feel much better and not depressed at all.

Everyone else in my family is on various antidepressants and anxiety meds. But for me, quite literally, testosterone and the gym have always been my anti-depressants. When I am on TRT doses I feel anxious and depressed, on higher doses I feel much better, happy and easy-going.

So you and I are in the same boat, along with a lot of other guys if they want to admit it. The question is, what do we do about it? Is it healthier to cut the gear down to TRT levels, and have to go on anxiety meds and anti-depressants? Or would it actually be healthier in some cases to just stay on higher amounts of test and other steroids? I suppose that depends on each individual and their own personal situation. But I know for myself, I feel much better on higher amounts of test and certain other steroids. Some gear raises anxiety and aggression, others decrease it. All of this is individual and everyone has to try things out for themselves to see what works best for them.

Frontiers | On the Role of Testosterone in Anxiety-Like Behavior Across Life in Experimental Rodents

Testosterone affects brain functions and might explain some of the observed behavioral sex differences. Animal models may help in elucidating the possible in...

www.frontiersin.org

"The anxiolytic-like effect of testosterone has been revealed in gonadally intact healthy animals, as well (64–66). However, testosterone can be either reduced by 5α-reductase to the more potent androgen dihydrotestosterone, or aromatized by aromatase to estradiol converting the androgen to estrogen activity. In brain, dihydrotestosterone can be further metabolized to 5α-androstane-3α,17β-diol (3α-diol) and to 5α-androstane-3β,17β-diol (3β-diol), neuroactive steroids possessing neuromodulatory activity (67). One of the most cited study investigating the rapid effects of testosterone on anxiety-like behavior in mice has suggested that the anxiolytic effect of testosterone is mediated by its 5α-reduced metabolites (64). Likewise, it has been proved that administration of 3α-diol decreases anxiety-like behavior in male rats (52, 59, 60, 63) as well as in female rats (68), while inhibition of testosterone metabolism to 3α-diol increases anxiety in male rats (62). Similar to effect of hormone administration, sexual experience and the exposure of intact male rats or mice to female subjects may decrease anxiety-like behavior associated with increased concentration of testosterone in plasma and hippocampus, as well as increased hypothalamic testosterone and 3α-diol concentration (64, 69). On the other hand, estradiol (61) and another metabolite of testosterone, androsterone (70), may cause anxiolysis, as well. Fernández-Guasti and Martínez-Mota (54) have shown that repeated administration of testosterone, but not a single injection of testosterone, nor treatment with 3α-diol or androsterone produced anxiolysis in male gonadectomized rats (54). According to published data, the manifestation of the anxiolytic-like effect of testosterone or its metabolites is highly dependent on dose and duration of treatment (54, 58, 64, 65, 71).

Due to its complex metabolism, the effects of testosterone might be mediated through different mechanisms of action. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are ligands of the androgen receptor. The latter binds with a greater affinity to the receptor and activates gene transcription resulting in an increased androgen activity (72). The role of androgen signaling in the regulation of anxiety-related behavior was demonstrated by administration of the androgen receptor antagonist flutamide (52, 54, 66), but also using the animal model of testicular feminization mutation (73–
76) and androgen receptor knockout mice (77). In addition, it has been shown that some selective androgen receptor modulators may exert neuroprotective effects (78) and may affect some behavioral and brain functions (79–83). However, experimental studies examining their effects on anxiety important for the deeper understanding of the association between testosterone and anxiety, but potentially also for therapeutic applications are lacking."

Man I get really bad I feel so weird and strange that I cant even explained it. I'm going through it now I'm just going back to at least 500mg and see if things change. If that's what I have to do for my entire life oh well.but I cant handle the anxiety. Not even my xanax works.my depression is extremely high.the anxiety depression, and feeling weird lost in space is the worse feeling in the world. I rather be dead honestly. I couldn't live like this everyday. I dont care to go out of the house watch tv look in the phone talk to anyone.its bad

 

[Sides]

Man I get really bad I feel so weird and strange that I cant even explained it. I'm going through it now I'm just going back to at least 500mg and see if things change. If that's what I have to do for my entire life oh well.but I cant handle the anxiety. Not even my xanax works.my depression is extremely high.the anxiety depression, and feeling weird lost in space is the worse feeling in the world. I rather be dead honestly. I couldn't live like this everyday. I dont care to go out of the house watch tv look in the phone talk to anyone.its bad

I know exactly what you mean. I've gone through the exact same experience with crushing anxiety and depression. Last summer was the worst.

I've spent most of the last 28 years using 400-500mg of testosterone per week, along with other compounds rotated in, with good experiences and very few problems. But to make a complicated long story short, last year at this time I ended up with gyno after using Tren, which got worse after I dropped DHT compounds (Proviron, Masteron), and the gyno got much worse after I tried Trestolone. I dropped everything to just 200mg of Test Cyp per week and tried to fight the gyno with Nolvadex and Raloxifene.

At first, I thought the depression and anxiety I was feeling was because of the SERM's (Nolva and Ralox.) But even after I dropped them and continued on 200mg Test, I felt miserable and anxious and my OCD symptoms went through the roof. For over three months I was horribly depressed and the anxiety was terrible, I was jumping out of my own skin. Finally in August I went back to using 400mg per week of Test, and almost immediately I felt much better, and the gyno did not recur. Went up to 600mg of Test, and I was downright happy, with much less anxiety, and the gyno still didn't come back.

Since then, I have stayed on at least 400mg of Test per week, and while I have other side effects, the depression and anxiety and OCD symptoms have never come back as bad as they did last summer. The only way I felt better was to increase the dose.

I think after a long time at a certain dose, your body and your mind just get used to that level of stimulation, and you don't feel well when you drop the dose. At least for me, that has been the case. Maybe the answer is to keep the dose low, and just get on an anti-depressant and anxiety medication. But when I look at all the negative side effects of the SSRI's and SNRI's and tri-cyclic anti-depressants, I have to think that maybe I am better off just sticking with testosterone.

I wish I had better news for you, but this has been my experience.