Help with PEDs for grappling

[Performance Based]

What’s up brother? Thanks for replying..

So the pain comes with basically any kind of decent force.. Example, I can do push ups and it bothers my elbows and shoulders but increase the force of pushing/pulling like when wrestling and having a 180-200lb man on top of you and you need to pry him off of you by pushing against him with everything you have or having a body lock on someone and squeezing super hard as they’re trying to fight out of it etc.. My shoulders and elbows will feel like they’re on fire, sore, and after a couple rounds it’ll be hard for me to do a push up off the ground and even pick up my gym bag and water without wincing in pain and needing to move very slowly and methodically..

As far as the programming, I only have what I’ve seen on his YouTube; you can look up Garage Strength and check it out, but he doesn’t give out full programming on there obviously.. But you can get an idea of what he implies.. He has like 15 programs on his site for different stages of Wrestling and BJJ etc, I was actually planning on calling them on Monday to see what program would be best for my specific goals, so I don’t have the details at this moment..

But I agree, I would think the programming for strength and power/explosiveness would be separate, or at least separate training days..

1) There might be a big event at the end of the year, but not 100% certain and also, not 100% certain I’ll be ready by then in terms of preparedness for competing, there’s some really nasty guys out there and I’m doing by best to be my best, but to me (and I’m really hard on myself) I’ve got a lot of work to do, but there’s still time to decide..

2) I’m hovering around 185-187lbs, coach says he’d like me around 165-170lbs for competition..

And I’m kinda scared of EPO are the side effects and thick blood heart attacks over blown?? Would love some more detailed info on that..

Is that log on here so I can check it out??

Heading to bed for the night - get back to you in the morning but I think I’ve got it figured out for you.

If for whatever reason you can’t sleep tonight hop onto YouTube and search for Phil Daru

I’ve been working with some of his training ideals and modalities and it’s really paid dividends

 

[KillerStack]

Alex Kikel has all sorts of ideas and makes claims I'd like to verify (like if he really has "many" chess players, sumo wrestlers etc, you name the sport and he'ss giving PED stacks to them).
But here he claims MT2 is an extremely popular PED, most everyone is on it. It "drives hematology" he says. All athletes are on the Carnitine too.

Did injectable ATP help performance a lot? How about T3 for powerlifting?

 

[KillerStack]

And I’m kinda scared of EPO are the side effects and thick blood heart attacks over blown?? Would love some more detailed info on that..

Is that log on here so I can check it out??

I never tried it but I've seen some say it's easy to dose where you still stay in the healthy range. Supposedly the Dutch cyclists who died back many decades ago took really extreme doses. I didn't hear about an epidemic of deaths due to EPO. Many posters always point out that there's no need for EPO in a juicing athlete, the androgens have enough of a blood building effect. But that's not all that's there to it. It supposedly has a bunch of potentially beneficial recovery effects and is even a strong antioxidant.

If someone here has done it maybe at a low dose I'd like to hear if it was noticeable.

 

[NEMSZ]

Heading to bed for the night - get back to you in the morning but I think I’ve got it figured out for you.

If for whatever reason you can’t sleep tonight hop onto YouTube and search for Phil Daru

I’ve been working with some of his training ideals and modalities and it’s really paid dividends

Looking forward to your reply, I actually follow Phil Daru on IG and love his training videos… Dane Miller actually has a video on him and speaks highly of him too..

 

[Performance Based]

I never tried it but I've seen some say it's easy to dose where you still stay in the healthy range. Supposedly the Dutch cyclists who died back many decades ago took really extreme doses. I didn't hear about an epidemic of deaths due to EPO. Many posters always point out that there's no need for EPO in a juicing athlete, the androgens have enough of a blood building effect. But that's not all that's there to it. It supposedly has a bunch of potentially beneficial recovery effects and is even a strong antioxidant.

If someone here has done it maybe at a low dose I'd like to hear if it was noticeable.

Good morning guys

Figured I would hit this one first. Believe it or not but their dosages for the utilization of EPO seem to be highly conservative (anecdotally from what I have read about). The issue there in lies in the nature of the event itself and the understanding at the time of proper hydration.

The issue itself is not necessarily the increased hematocrit and "thick" blood but instead lack of proper hydration. At the time the understanding of micro nutrients especially sodium what nominal. Sodium was going to give you a heart attack and pure water alone supplies hydration. They didn't understand sodium is processed extremely quickly not only through perspiration but also muscular activation. Replacing water without additional sodium merely compounds the affect.

With EPO you have to maintain hydration. True form proper hydration. Fluid intake + sodium intake both need to increase by a factor of 2 then 3 I have found for me personally. Increased sodium along with increased water intake = increased blood volume = you don't get "thick" blood.

Low dosages even 500IU per day was like oh wow, there you are. Its' impact on long slow steady state cardio I found was nominal but on sprints and lactate work in the gym. Oh boy.

 

[Performance Based]

What’s up brother? Thanks for replying..

So the pain comes with basically any kind of decent force.. Example, I can do push ups and it bothers my elbows and shoulders but increase the force of pushing/pulling like when wrestling and having a 180-200lb man on top of you and you need to pry him off of you by pushing against him with everything you have or having a body lock on someone and squeezing super hard as they’re trying to fight out of it etc.. My shoulders and elbows will feel like they’re on fire, sore, and after a couple rounds it’ll be hard for me to do a push up off the ground and even pick up my gym bag and water without wincing in pain and needing to move very slowly and methodically..

As far as the programming, I only have what I’ve seen on his YouTube; you can look up Garage Strength and check it out, but he doesn’t give out full programming on there obviously.. But you can get an idea of what he implies.. He has like 15 programs on his site for different stages of Wrestling and BJJ etc, I was actually planning on calling them on Monday to see what program would be best for my specific goals, so I don’t have the details at this moment..

But I agree, I would think the programming for strength and power/explosiveness would be separate, or at least separate training days..

1) There might be a big event at the end of the year, but not 100% certain and also, not 100% certain I’ll be ready by then in terms of preparedness for competing, there’s some really nasty guys out there and I’m doing by best to be my best, but to me (and I’m really hard on myself) I’ve got a lot of work to do, but there’s still time to decide..

2) I’m hovering around 185-187lbs, coach says he’d like me around 165-170lbs for competition..

And I’m kinda scared of EPO are the side effects and thick blood heart attacks over blown?? Would love some more detailed info on that..

Is that log on here so I can check it out??

Ok here we go

My log

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/performance-macrophase-hyrox-hong-kong-muay-thai-world-championships-speed-camp.175852/

Prepping for events
Start thinking mesocycles broken down into macrocycles and microcycles with your training. Each year I will identify two athletic endeavors in which I want to partake in that are separated by approximately 6 months. It then breaks down into the following months.
Macrocycle 1 - Months 1 to 3 - General athletic preparedness + wintering. All around fitness, extremely high volume, higher AAS dosages, if I need to take a day because I feel ground down I will, etc.
Micro cycle 1+2 these are 1-2 week blocks at the end of month 2+3 usually followed by a deload week. These are weeks of high volume + peak performance.
Macrocycle 2 - Months 3-5 - Ahletic endeavors not directly related to the event which I want to compete in are dropped. IE a muay thai fight, I will drop swimming, basketball pick up games, etc. This volume is then replaced with sport specific volume. Training in the gym becomes specialized towards the event.
Micro Cycle 1+2 - Strategically placed weeks schedule dependent for absolute peak performance. Everything outside of the event itself is dropped. This allows me to asses my bodies ability to operate at peak efficiency while not remaining "recent" in the gym. This tells me if I can drop gym sessions 1 week out, 3 days out or even 10 days out of my fight to maximize CNS reset.
Macrocycle 3 - Month 6 - Fight camp only, twice per week gym sessions until usually 1 week from the event.

One of Phil's best videos

100% watch this video - His pairing energy systems with the appropriate training is a big breakthrough in the performance side. The "interference" affect is a very real thing. IE I paid long slow steady run days with general athletic movement volume days at non maximal effort and low intensity muay thai days.

Sprint days are max effort squat days and hard sparring days.

Fully priming a singular energy system in a day allows for maximal adaptation. Also coming to the realization that your fitness is going to ebb and flow during this endeavor. I know when I start prepping for an event my size, strength, etc is going to decline. Hell I am usually going to get a little bit fat but it is what it is.

 

[stackdizzy]

One of the best things I did for bjj is take a tablespoon of liquid dmso and dump it into 16oz water and drink it. You'll quit when everyone tells you you stink but man that shit gave me an extra 2 tenths of a second it seemed. maybe start two weeks out from a comp and run it up until its over. I mean you'll stink bad though but at least you won't smell it...lol

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Understood mate - have you noticed any changes to RHR while using in higher dosages? Any uptick in recovery from training at higher dosages? Looking to drop weight classes next year which will require next to 0 AAS outside of TRT dosage. Trying to find edges on recovery that do not simultaneous maintain my weight at 215+.

No increases in RHR. I notice TB more if muscle tissues are beat up, and BPC for joint related inflammation.

 

[Performance Based]

No increases in RHR. I notice TB more if muscle tissues are beat up, and BPC for joint related inflammation.

Thank you sir, I appreciate you taking the time to drop wisdom.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Alex Kikel has all sorts of ideas and makes claims I'd like to verify (like if he really has "many" chess players, sumo wrestlers etc, you name the sport and he'ss giving PED stacks to them).
But here he claims MT2 is an extremely popular PED, most everyone is on it. It "drives hematology" he says. All athletes are on the Carnitine too.

Did injectable ATP help performance a lot? How about T3 for powerlifting?

My friend bought into his training and sent me his PDF.

He seems like a total bullshit charlatan who’s copied and pieced together other knowledgeable people’s info and has no real track record of his own.

I could be wrong.

 

[Cerberus777]

What’s up brother? Thanks for replying..

So the pain comes with basically any kind of decent force.. Example, I can do push ups and it bothers my elbows and shoulders but increase the force of pushing/pulling like when wrestling and having a 180-200lb man on top of you and you need to pry him off of you by pushing against him with everything you have or having a body lock on someone and squeezing super hard as they’re trying to fight out of it etc.. My shoulders and elbows will feel like they’re on fire, sore, and after a couple rounds it’ll be hard for me to do a push up off the ground and even pick up my gym bag and water without wincing in pain and needing to move very slowly and methodically..

As far as the programming, I only have what I’ve seen on his YouTube; you can look up Garage Strength and check it out, but he doesn’t give out full programming on there obviously.. But you can get an idea of what he implies.. He has like 15 programs on his site for different stages of Wrestling and BJJ etc, I was actually planning on calling them on Monday to see what program would be best for my specific goals, so I don’t have the details at this moment..

But I agree, I would think the programming for strength and power/explosiveness would be separate, or at least separate training days..

1) There might be a big event at the end of the year, but not 100% certain and also, not 100% certain I’ll be ready by then in terms of preparedness for competing, there’s some really nasty guys out there and I’m doing by best to be my best, but to me (and I’m really hard on myself) I’ve got a lot of work to do, but there’s still time to decide..

2) I’m hovering around 185-187lbs, coach says he’d like me around 165-170lbs for competition..

And I’m kinda scared of EPO are the side effects and thick blood heart attacks over blown?? Would love some more detailed info on that..

Is that log on here so I can check it out??

A top BJJ guy I know runs 150mg of each test,bold cyp(eq with shorter ester), and mast. 3iu GH and 20mg GW. He's 165lbs

 

[KillerStack]

My friend bought into his training and sent me his PDF.

He seems like a total bullshit charlatan who’s copied and pieced together other knowledgeable people’s info and has no real track record of his own.

I could be wrong.

I think he is fascinating in a way which is why I follow him. He exaggerates a lot, some is just made-up. But I think his certainty and positive attitude of, "we can do everything" is attracting people to him. He has posted a lot of his "case studies" where he's essentially cured people from heart and kidney failure and so on. It's a bit questionable how he goes about some things like these life or death situations.

He has cool easy fixes for eveeything. Like everyone can cure spilling over in a couple of minutes with sodium and "an exogenous insulin pulse."

He had an "easy" protocol for reversing female virilization.
He says he has many female clients who seek him out to cure their sexual dysfunction

I haven't paid for his materials but the way he's mentioned diuretic protocols in a very cavalier way makes me a bit uneasy, combining potassium sparing with loop with basically no risk.

I'd just like to know if he has all these clients, or even a fraction of what he claims. All these Olympic athletes he supposedly helps beat their WADA tests "easy." I'd think if this was your specialty you would for sure shut up about it.

He has absorbed a lot of "data" even if he draws some fantastical conclusions from it. That in itself is kinda interesting to me. If we are to believe him he already has a long long track record. Something is majorly off lol.

 

[lycan venom]

I don’t agree here.

Winstrol is terrible for your joints. Not just in the short term, but in the long term. It also tanks HDL.

Gear doesn’t help you lose weight.

Masteron should only be used at a LOW dose to offset issues with nandrolone and test.

Never dbol or anadrol.

The goal is to exist on some of these compounds for longer periods of time to boost recovery and avoid health consequences.

I don’t agree here.

Winstrol is terrible for your joints. Not just in the short term, but in the long term. It also tanks HDL.

Gear doesn’t help you lose weight.

Masteron should only be used at a LOW dose to offset issues with nandrolone and test.

Never dbol or anadrol.

The goal is to exist on some of these compounds for longer periods of time to boost recovery and avoid health consequences.

Sharing knowledge is exactly why we are a community, so no reason why we can not agree. Let's just provide knowledge from credible sources like medical journals and clinical studies to keep the broscience out. Unfortunately, we don't have many studies to refer to from accredited institutions. Although, we can search Pubmed and Google Scholar to find some dated research of medical use of AAS.

My response isn't to be an aggro keyboard nerd and start a debate of hearsay. It's to inform the OP, myself and others of a shared collective knowledge to keep us all safe and also avoid the broscience.

Lets keep in mind, individual response. We all respond to different things differently. This not only holds true with various anabolic steroids but all things we put into our body. Most of use can take Aspirin, but there are others who will experience horrible side effects if they touch the first pill. Most of us can tolerate dairy products, but there are others who become very sick if they even look at a glass of milk. Individual response dictates quite a lot.


"Winstrol is terrible for your joints. Not just in the short term, but in the long term. It also tanks HDL."


Winstrol was used by collegiate, olympic and professional athletes for decades. Those athletes were injected with corticosteroids which affects synovial fluid. As for gymbro NPC ams & IFBB pros, I'm sure they still used it and I know for a fact BJJ competitors use it. The OP is going to have joint issues no matter what, it's fucking Newaza Jitsu, Wrestling and Judo joint manipulation for pain compliance and combat debilitation of an enemy. Be realistic here.

As for the Cholesterol issue,

There should be no need to supplement with o.t.c. or prescribed meds to combate LDL and HDL issues caused by AAS. If so, that person should stop use or it would just be abuse and defeating the reason to use AAS in the 1st place. Be responsible, use the lowest dose possible and get off when you should. That avoids the health issues.

Lets be reasonable here, we are talking about using AAS which all affect natural body functions, so the best thing to do is be educated and responsible with use.

As for cholesterol, if the OP is training and using gear, he should have his diet on point. Good cholesterol goes down and bad cholesterol goes up using gear but you cycle on and off and have a proper PCT... lets be real here, the OP shouldn't be blasting a stacked cycle and shouldn't be taking more than noob dosages to have an athletic body and avoid injury while having a faster healing time which should potentially mitigate negative affects of AAS use.

"Gear doesn’t help you lose weight."

Ok, well maybe I was irresponsible and misphrased the situation. The goal is to burn fat at a more efficient rate. Regardless of how powerful the direct lipolysis trait is or isn’t, the metabolic rate will still be greatly enhanced by AAS use. Anavar is used to preserve lean tissue during the dieting phase. In order to lose body fat, we must burn more calories than we consume. The key to successful dieting is losing the desired fat while maintaining as much lean tissue as possible; however, muscle loss will occur. It does not matter how well-planned your diet is, some muscle loss will occur if an AAS isn't used. Most all AAS will enhance the metabolic rate, which will promote fat loss, but Anavar has research that may prove it directly promotes lipolysis through the ability to firmly bind to the androgen receptor, reduce thyroid-binding globulin, as well as increase thyroxine-binding prealbumin. Anavar was used on burn patients and it was noted that visceral and organ fat was lost, lean muscle retained and wounds healed quicker without the patient leaving the bed for their entire hospital stay.

"Masteron should only be used at a LOW dose to offset issues with nandrolone and test."

There would be no benefit to using Masterone unless as a very limited SERM unless the guy is sub 10% BF and wants to look grainy as fuck like Gordon Ryan did.

"Never dbol or anadrol."

If the OP was bulking and it was stacked.. umm yeah buddy. Besides the negative affects you might want to claim like the aforementioned, these 2 compounds as a kick start to a stacked bulking cycle would work. I gave the OP options of AAS per receptor and it is is up to the OP to determine if it would be best for him. If he wanted to low dose and avoid water retention, increase protein synthesis and gain strength for BJJ grips and Judo throws.. yes. We need to consider what his objective is and ok, maybe Dbol & Adrol isn't for him, but it was an option out of other DHT AAS. I'd stick with Anavar to stack personally.

"The goal is to exist on some of these compounds for longer periods of time to boost recovery and avoid health consequences."

Well, unlike every guru on forums, I avoided handing out dosages without knowing the OP as a coach/trainer. I wouldn't give a cookie cutter regimen or guess of what exact PEDS to use. I have no idea how his body responds, what his actual training and diet are or his experience & ability to use AAS. I just gave very basic 3 receptor options with very minimal explanations as I'm not a baby sitter. We are all adults and should do our own due diligence taking "advice" from anyone. He should actually consult doctors and have medical tests done on himself to avoid health issues. That's the best advice.

Long term use.. low dose HRT/TRT and HGH ... look at the older Actors & Bodybuilders. They are not using like they did in the 80's and 90's, not mass monsters and look amazing for their age and practice BJJ. If avoiding Cholesterol and Joint issues is the main issue.. the best advice is.. do not take AAS.

I have used BP500 and can't say if it worked or not. I also haven't come across an impartial clinical study.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Sharing knowledge is exactly why we are a community, so no reason why we can not agree. Let's just provide knowledge from credible sources like medical journals and clinical studies to keep the broscience out. Unfortunately, we don't have many studies to refer to from accredited institutions. Although, we can search Pubmed and Google Scholar to find some dated research of medical use of AAS.

My response isn't to be an aggro keyboard nerd and start a debate of hearsay. It's to inform the OP, myself and others of a shared collective knowledge to keep us all safe and also avoid the broscience.

Lets keep in mind, individual response. We all respond to different things differently. This not only holds true with various anabolic steroids but all things we put into our body. Most of use can take Aspirin, but there are others who will experience horrible side effects if they touch the first pill. Most of us can tolerate dairy products, but there are others who become very sick if they even look at a glass of milk. Individual response dictates quite a lot.


"Winstrol is terrible for your joints. Not just in the short term, but in the long term. It also tanks HDL."


Winstrol was used by collegiate, olympic and professional athletes for decades. Those athletes were injected with corticosteroids which affects synovial fluid. As for gymbro NPC ams & IFBB pros, I'm sure they still used it and I know for a fact BJJ competitors use it. The OP is going to have joint issues no matter what, it's fucking Newaza Jitsu, Wrestling and Judo joint manipulation for pain compliance and combat debilitation of an enemy. Be realistic here.

As for the Cholesterol issue,

There should be no need to supplement with o.t.c. or prescribed meds to combate LDL and HDL issues caused by AAS. If so, that person should stop use or it would just be abuse and defeating the reason to use AAS in the 1st place. Be responsible, use the lowest dose possible and get off when you should. That avoids the health issues.

Lets be reasonable here, we are talking about using AAS which all affect natural body functions, so the best thing to do is be educated and responsible with use.

As for cholesterol, if the OP is training and using gear, he should have his diet on point. Good cholesterol goes down and bad cholesterol goes up using gear but you cycle on and off and have a proper PCT... lets be real here, the OP shouldn't be blasting a stacked cycle and shouldn't be taking more than noob dosages to have an athletic body and avoid injury while having a faster healing time which should potentially mitigate negative affects of AAS use.

"Gear doesn’t help you lose weight."

Ok, well maybe I was irresponsible and misphrased the situation. The goal is to burn fat at a more efficient rate. Regardless of how powerful the direct lipolysis trait is or isn’t, the metabolic rate will still be greatly enhanced by AAS use. Anavar is used to preserve lean tissue during the dieting phase. In order to lose body fat, we must burn more calories than we consume. The key to successful dieting is losing the desired fat while maintaining as much lean tissue as possible; however, muscle loss will occur. It does not matter how well-planned your diet is, some muscle loss will occur if an AAS isn't used. Most all AAS will enhance the metabolic rate, which will promote fat loss, but Anavar has research that may prove it directly promotes lipolysis through the ability to firmly bind to the androgen receptor, reduce thyroid-binding globulin, as well as increase thyroxine-binding prealbumin. Anavar was used on burn patients and it was noted that visceral and organ fat was lost, lean muscle retained and wounds healed quicker without the patient leaving the bed for their entire hospital stay.

"Masteron should only be used at a LOW dose to offset issues with nandrolone and test."

There would be no benefit to using Masterone unless as a very limited SERM unless the guy is sub 10% BF and wants to look grainy as fuck like Gordon Ryan did.

"Never dbol or anadrol."

If the OP was bulking and it was stacked.. umm yeah buddy. Besides the negative affects you might want to claim like the aforementioned, these 2 compounds as a kick start to a stacked bulking cycle would work. I gave the OP options of AAS per receptor and it is is up to the OP to determine if it would be best for him. If he wanted to low dose and avoid water retention, increase protein synthesis and gain strength for BJJ grips and Judo throws.. yes. We need to consider what his objective is and ok, maybe Dbol & Adrol isn't for him, but it was an option out of other DHT AAS. I'd stick with Anavar to stack personally.

"The goal is to exist on some of these compounds for longer periods of time to boost recovery and avoid health consequences."

Well, unlike every guru on forums, I avoided handing out dosages without knowing the OP as a coach/trainer. I wouldn't give a cookie cutter regimen or guess of what exact PEDS to use. I have no idea how his body responds, what his actual training and diet are or his experience & ability to use AAS. I just gave very basic 3 receptor options with very minimal explanations as I'm not a baby sitter. We are all adults and should do our own due diligence taking "advice" from anyone. He should actually consult doctors and have medical tests done on himself to avoid health issues. That's the best advice.

Long term use.. low dose HRT/TRT and HGH ... look at the older Actors & Bodybuilders. They are not using like they did in the 80's and 90's, not mass monsters and look amazing for their age and practice BJJ. If avoiding Cholesterol and Joint issues is the main issue.. the best advice is.. do not take AAS.

I have used BP500 and can't say if it worked or not. I also haven't come across an impartial clinical study.

You seem like you have it pretty well
figure out. Best of luck.

 

[KillerStack]

Good morning guys

Figured I would hit this one first. Believe it or not but their dosages for the utilization of EPO seem to be highly conservative (anecdotally from what I have read about). The issue there in lies in the nature of the event itself and the understanding at the time of proper hydration.

The issue itself is not necessarily the increased hematocrit and "thick" blood but instead lack of proper hydration. At the time the understanding of micro nutrients especially sodium what nominal. Sodium was going to give you a heart attack and pure water alone supplies hydration. They didn't understand sodium is processed extremely quickly not only through perspiration but also muscular activation. Replacing water without additional sodium merely compounds the affect.

With EPO you have to maintain hydration. True form proper hydration. Fluid intake + sodium intake both need to increase by a factor of 2 then 3 I have found for me personally. Increased sodium along with increased water intake = increased blood volume = you don't get "thick" blood.

Low dosages even 500IU per day was like oh wow, there you are. Its' impact on long slow steady state cardio I found was nominal but on sprints and lactate work in the gym. Oh boy.

Thanks. And seems like it could help an athlete on several levels.

 

[Performance Based]

@NEMSZ This should be helpful https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/some-notes-on-performance.175952/

@lycan venom May I inquire as to what your sporting background is?

This post is not to argue or come off rude in the absolute slightest but as you mentioned foster conversation.

• I do utilize winstrol for performance purpose and sincerely love the compound. That being said when I have an injury or a joint becomes aggravated I will drop it and move to anavar. In all sincerity it does have an affinity for exacerbating pain from injuries or inflamation. I have some bicep tendon issues from a Mumford surgery years ago. The second it flairs up and if I am running Winstrol I have to take a week off any type of plyometric upper body work. If running anavar it purely takes 2-3 days.
• Masteron - I frequently run masteron for assistance with recovery at 100-200mg per week. Any more has inverse affects with micro nutrient partitioning and the ability to hold onto sodium. Key thing here is that bodybuilding and performance based metrics require completely different inputs for vary different outputs. An athlete running a bodybuilding cycle would be equivalent to a fat kid thats never stepped into a gym before.
• Dbol - Anadrol (if the athlete was bulking) no athletes "bulk" at least not serious ones. There is a direct correlation with increased size and a host of performance mitigating affects. I sit off season at 225ish around 9%, my size drastically hinders my ability to perform. On topic with these compounds, compounds that aromatize heavily have an incredibly profound impact on VO2 max and RHR. If I run more than 200mg of test for instance my mile time goes from the high 5 min mark to mid six minute mark and my perceived effort is substantially higher. The increase to RHR also inversely affects HRV (some may disagree on this but it is the best metric in which I have found) decrease the ability of the CNS to adapt.

Heavily aromatizing compounds have zero place in sport whatsoever.

Pulsatile Utilization of Oral Compounds - Max Pushup/Max Pull Up, all numbers taken with 2 full days of rest

Compound Ran	Push Ups	Pull Ups
TRT 200 Test	74	18
50 Anavar	82	21
50 Anavar + 50 Winstrol	97	23
50 Anavar + 50 Tbol	84	21
50MG Dbol	66	16

Anabolics and Recovery – For bodybuilding the adage of P for plenty has been around for a while which has translated to performance sports however has a negative correlation.

Average of 10 Days Taken Midpoint for Each

Compound Ran​	RHR​	HRV​
TRT 200 Test​	38​	165​
100 Test + 600 Primo​	45​	140​
200 Test + 200 Nandro​	52​	118​
200 Test + 200 Nandro + 2IU HGH​	55​	112​
200 Test + 100 Nandro + 4IU HGH​	58​	106​
200 Test + 100 Nandro + 10IU HGH​	62​	74 ​

 

[juggy38]

I get more joint pain from primo than masteron on a mg/mg basis.


I’ve tried to grapple on test/primo and everything hurts. And yes my primo is primo. I think I’m obliterating E2 with primo. Hence why I like a little masteron. It makes me more aggressive, as I’m pretty mild mannered.

or I might just be old

 

[goback2013]

Good stuff. Subbed.

 

[goback2013]

A top BJJ guy I know runs 150mg of each test,bold cyp(eq with shorter ester), and mast. 3iu GH and 20mg GW. He's 165lbs

I have this cycle on deck come Sept.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Without diving into the literature, if memory serves…

Winstrol will lead to larger, thicker, weaker joints due to the type of collagen synthesis it stimulates. You’ll find articles on collagen synthesis, but the “wrong kind”.

Masteron and primo seem to really be hit or miss with people. Must be individual genetic variability. I like both, but both tend to equally crush my e2. The only different is Masteron “feels” a bit stronger, and offers a harder look. I feel fuller on Primo, but less dry.

If one doesn’t work, the other probably will.