AAS and prostate

[Wallace]

There is quite a lot of people here who have been in the bb arena for a while and probably knows people who bb in the 70s and 80s ...

I was wondering if anyone has heard of prostate problems by aas use ... I was thinking in particular of guys who used when they were in their 20s and 30s (or have been using since that time) and now are over 50 or 60 ... has the high dose aas use over the years caused any increase in prostate cancer, or benign prostate hyperplasia or other prostate problems?

Wallace

 

[A50#]

Prostate

I'm in my early 30's and suffer from chronic prostate problems. I can't say for sure that AAS use caused my problems but you cant help but wonder.

 

[MikeS]

The strange thing is, prostate problems are suffered mostly by older men.
What happens to men as they age? Their test levels LOWER.
And prostate problems are found in older men, with LOW testosterone levels. In studies older men with higher test levels had much less incidence of prostate problems than men with low levels. So is it low, rather than high, levels of testosterone that cause the problems?

 

[bolo]

i think the same as mike, i also kind of think estrogen is part of the acne problem we have,

 

[saint808]

i think flomax will be in everry cycle i ever do from now on.

 

[Otis T Holbrook]

A subject that I can relate to and possibly contribute some. I've been dealing with prostate cancer the past few years. The test/estrogen ratio is still controversial. I for one think there is something to it. What is fact though, is prostate cancer feeds on test. What also is fact is that 20+% of men over 50 have some prostate cancer cells. That percentage continues to increase with age. (They usually won't be found or present a problem in most) I believe if you are one of them, and feed your system with steroids, it could become an issue. I truly feel that is what happen in my case. I didn't do my first cycle until I was 53, I had cancer by 57. So far I think it's on the run. Use common sense and get you PSA checked often if you use.

 

[Wallace]

As many of u stated, the issue test va prosta cancer is not clear.
Most probably estrogens do play a role in the development of prostate cancer, but still there are many unknown factors and processes to say sth "evidence based".

Unfortunately though, many aas cycles "include" high estrogen levels together with high androgen levels ....

It would be very interesting to know about prostate problems in actual or former aas users ...

Otis, I am really sorry to read about your prostate problem.
I would really appreciate if you could explain some more details of your story. If you do not feel like to discuss in public can you please send me an email?

Wallace

[email protected]

 

[MikeS]

Some of the problems in preventive meds are that for DHT (the metabolite of test that is reputed to cause the prostate problems) Finesteride will cause male potency issues. DHT is very important in the wellness of many male secondary sex characteristics.
Reducing estrogen has much less impact on the men. Complete elimination of
estrogen does cause some problems, but reduction of high levels is positive in male health.

So, Id hope that estrogen proves to be the main culprit instead of DHT;
therefore preventative action will have less/no impact on the mans overall wellness.

 

[zephyr22]

Mine flares up quite a bit...

I use a product from india called Fincar. It is generic finasteride at 5mg/tablet. However it works well for DHT sides like stops my hair from falling out and I can take a piss ok. The downside is it does mess with my sex drive. Im thinking of just dosing with a qaurter tablet a day to = approx 1.25mg. I get them so cheap, I think like maybe 3 cents a piece. So I just take a whole 5mg but im gonna try decreasing very soon. I cant have the wang knocked down. Later.

 

[Wallace]

Is there anyone who knows about the prostate of bbers (dead or alive) of the 70s and 80s?

Mentzer brothers
Arnold
Padilla
Zane
Oliva
Robbie
Katz
Lou
Walker
Viator
etc etc etc


IF high dose aas would be really risky for the prostate I think we should have a good deal of these "old" guys with prostate problems ... but would we know about it?

In the available medical literature there is only one case of a bb in the uk who, at 38, at a diagnosis of prostatitis or sth alike, and at 40 had cancer ...

Other reports or about old men, over 70, where prostate cancer is pretty common with / without aas ....

There is one interesting study from 1996, Australia, where prostate size and PSA was measured in 15 high dose aas users, aged 20 - 53 ... they found PSA levels comaprable with the controls and prostate which had the same total volume but a shift in the relative volume of the central and peripheral zones ... aas users had a bigger central prostate and a smaller peripheral one ... what is the significance of this .... is not known ... we could of course speculate for days ...


Wallace

 

[Otis T Holbrook]

My PSA was 0.9 before my first cycle. It was a low dose Anavar and Deca. 6 months later it was 2.2. The rate of change concerns a good Dr. as much as the total number. Any doubling in 6 months or an increase of .75 in a year is suspect. It stayed around that number for a year or so. My next cycle was Deca/D-Bol and my PSA went to 3.5 and a biopsy was done and was OK. No steroids and it dropped back to the 2's. A small cycle pushed it to 4.1, another biopsy and cancer was found. As I said in my earlier post, If you are older, use common sense.

 

[Wallace]

My PSA was 0.9 before my first cycle. It was a low dose Anavar and Deca. 6 months later it was 2.2. The rate of change concerns a good Dr. as much as the total number. Any doubling in 6 months or an increase of .75 in a year is suspect. It stayed around that number for a year or so. My next cycle was Deca/D-Bol and my PSA went to 3.5 and a biopsy was done and was OK. No steroids and it dropped back to the 2's. A small cycle pushed it to 4.1, another biopsy and cancer was found. As I said in my earlier post, If you are older, use common sense.

...... can I aks how many biopsies were taken the first time? 6? 10? 12?

And can I also ask what treatment do you get for the cancer? Were you operated? Radio therapy? hormon therapy?

And last: what do u mean by "use common sense"? monitor PSA closely and then? .... what to do if it rises? you had probably cancer when the first biopsies where taken ... I think ... it just did not show ...

Wallace

 

[Frusciante]

Might appear odd for a guy (in his 30's for example) requesting a PSA test huh? I just looked at my previous blood work tests and didn't see it listed on there...hmm A baseline wouldn't be a bad idea regardless I feel


Oh, and my guess is he'd be on 6 months or so of chemo for prostate,yes? Length of treatment depending of course on his response to treatment. Theres a number of people that will come down with prostate cancer regardless. It's one of the most common forms of cancer in males. I doubt athletes that have used in the past are the majority of these people. Wouldn't the numbers reflect that?

Otis, I have to wonder if you would have delt with this even without the aas usage.???

 

[Wallace]

Oh, and my guess is he'd be on 6 months or so of chemo for prostate,yes? Length of treatment depending of course on his response to treatment.

Wrong, very wrong!
If you get prostate cancer you are finished with aas ... if you care for your life ...

Theres a number of people that will come down with prostate cancer regardless. It's one of the most common forms of cancer in males. I doubt athletes that have used in the past are the majority of these people. Wouldn't the numbers reflect that?

The point is: are the % of prostate cancer significatly higher in former/actual aas users then average males (at the same age) ???

Otis, I have to wonder if you would have delt with this even without the aas usage.???

Might be, nobody can say anything, expecially yes or no.

It might have been a "luck" since the cancer showed earlier thanks to a PSA rise, and the fact that cancers which develop in a high androgenized environment are usually well differentiated and therefore less aggressive and more responsive to treatment ... on the other hand, it might have caused a subclinical cancer which never would have shown up to clinical level to develop enough to give problems ...


Wallace

 

[Otis T Holbrook]

My first biopsy was 12 samples, the 2nd was 18. I pissed blood for 4 hours after each. The treatment I chose was brachytherapy. (Radioactive seed implants) I also had 4 months of anti-androgen therapy prior. It sucked, hot flashes like a menapausal (SP) female, loss of strength. My test levels are about normal now and my strength is back. I feel fine, but the follow up blood work leaves much to be desired. Some guys have many more side effects than I have so I'm pleased about that. They never say you are cured, just a survivor. Wallace, you are probably 100% correct that I had CA on the first biopsy. What I mean by common sense is as we get older (I don't have the magic age) we might want to examine if the benefit is worth the risk. Are you making money by using? Are you a chick magnet because of steroids? Is feeding the ego worth it? If it is, continue.

 

[MikeS]

I use a product from india called Fincar. It is generic finasteride at 5mg/tablet. However it works well for DHT sides like stops my hair from falling out and I can take a piss ok. The downside is it does mess with my sex drive. Im thinking of just dosing with a qaurter tablet a day to = approx 1.25mg. I get them so cheap, I think like maybe 3 cents a piece. So I just take a whole 5mg but im gonna try decreasing very soon. I cant have the wang knocked down. Later.

I used to use the same product. Got it from a well known overseas meds website. Using all 5mg is ALOT. I used 1/4 tabs. It will fucking KILL your sex drive.

 

[Frusciante]

Wrong, very wrong!
If you get prostate cancer you are finished with aas ... if you care for your life ...

You must have misread or misunderstood what I typed I said nothing in that sentence regarding aas.

I said he's probably on 6 or so months of "chemo"

I too am a cancer survivor (nothing to do with prostate), so I was taking an educated guess as to his cancer treatment. Prostate cancer is one of the most common ...and a type of cancer that responds well to chemo.

Wallace, not really sure why you picked apart my post lol

Otis good luck bro!

 

[Otis T Holbrook]

Thanks to all for the concern.

 

[Wallace]

Wallace, not really sure why you picked apart my post lol

I found it interesting and I wanted to comment separately ... is it offensive to do that

I have probably misunderstood, but your post sounded like "ok, in case u get prostate cancer u get a 6 months chemo and thet's it, you are cured and back in the game".

The point is that, once you get a prostate cancer, you need follow up for a very long time. We are seeing recurrences after 10 years from "radical treatments".

Since the cancer is (usually) extremely sensible to androgen stimulation, it is somewhat unwise to have high androgen levels, either by own production or taking them. In that regards it is the end for chemically assisted bb.

And in that very sense it is, in my opinion, very sad for former chemically assisted guys who are "used" to the feeling AND the results of aas use.


Otis: have u been declared "healed"? Good luck in any case and thank u very much for telling your story!


Wallace