Great advice .......thanks for imput Homonuc and Lats........my take on the lt hvy's was simple ........John is only 5'6 with a larger head , short arms and legs.......and not real wide .....I figured at national level competing at 210 -215 would have been a tall order ......to give up over 10 lbs of stage wt, to guys 2-3 inches taller .......would have been a tall order ......especially battling all the scars on his mid section . After looking at the USA 's light heavy's I thought he stood a very good chance.......I knew how hard he would work .......and thought being at the top of class in extremely good condition would do it ..........I guess I was wrong........John told me he felt like he looked his best ever and had never been that lean........he said backstage people were treating him as the winner.......honestly ,his placing doesn't sit well with me .......but whatever.........he is doing a state show in two weeks .......I am sure we will take your advice ........but I still think light heavies were the best chance for them .......hindsight , I would ve pushed some carbs carefully in the 27 hrs we had before hitting the stage after the weigh in...........but my take was he hit his best back in 99 fat loading and that I wanted his glutes and low back in ......I was alittle afraid of the carbs because we had to cut his food and carbs so low the last 2 wks I was afraid it might fuck him up..........If I could do it again ......I would have pushed him super hard earlier in the prep and got him do to his show wt way earlier .....in fact I would even tried to get him 2-3 lbs leaner to be insanely freaky .......that would 've given his body time to adjust and his body wouldn't have been so tired to squeezein the class.[ that's the only thing neg I can say ,is he looks a tad flat and tired] I don't like diuretics for health issues and I really didn't want to play that game too much........If I had him even leaner two weeks out and then rested him in .....he would have had a better look and adjusted to a load much easier ......but I totally see both of your points and you know that I respect them .........I really tried to give john some help as a friend ......because I am certainly not a prep guy nor do I want to be one ........I have been helping people hit their best since I was a kid .[always had a good eye and a knack for it] I was alittle off on the timing of the prep ,but then again I think he only really commited 5 weeks out and didn't look near ready at 218 when I first got pics..........I love John and am super proud of him and thought he beat his best .......he knows he isn't gifted ,but out works and out trains people ..........if he wants to be a ripped grainy 225lb freak .......we can do that inside of 18 months ........but is that smart or worth it ? He has the stomach issues,some politics against him, and some structure problems .......would that look get him the win I am hoping for .......I am just not so sure .......It is certainly up to him......he is way better at this and knows whats right for him .........I support him no matter what....to go from a hard 218 to 198.25 in 5 weeks is an incredible task ......combine that with a marrige ,twins infants , a high stress job, friends , a 2nd business, many clients , the guy won in my book........I am very sad and still think I let him down some .........but in my book John's a friend and a winner in my book!!!