Am I a biggot?

[blackhole2]

I was having dinner last night and at the end for some reason I stated that I had no respect for a certain group of people.

That they are used to kill in name of their religion an that the rest of people that belong to that religion are used to say that they have nothing to do with that...

My rationale is quite simple: it is much easier to say that I have nothing to do with that and be a "partner" in all that killing that trying to do something about it, to be responsible and gutsy

That if someone started killing people and using the fact that they are Brazilian; I'd be the first one to do something to stop them, instead of just saying that I have nothing to do with that and that has nothing to do with being Brazilian...
My whole point is that if you are all part of the same group, you have the responsibility to police your own group and that if in case someone start some sort of rogue activities you have the right/power to do something to stop those activities in name of the group, instead of just trying to excuse yourself and try to dissociate of those people because after all you still are part of the same group to start with.

I'd love to hear you questions/responses.

 

[M21SL]

I wouldnt sit here and say youre a bigot, youre intolerant of terrorists, but that is a rational feeling that most people in the world except terrorists have.

In response to your feelings about how Muslims andthe like should be responsible for their own group, instead of trying to separate themselves from these terrorists, is narrow minded. You have to understand, these terrorists and bad people are such a small small small population of the Muslim population. Almost all Muslims, and most middle eastern countries absolutely condemn these terrorists and everything they stand for. They are seen as a disgrace to the relgion by most of their own, which is why I understand why they would 'separate' themselves form these terrorists. Islam is the largest religion in the world by population, and most people dont realize that a large portion of Muslims are indonesian, and southeast asian. I think it is ridiculous to say that these people in a whole nother part of the world should take responsibility to deal with these terrorists, just because they believe in the same God. I also think it is a reach to say that middle eastern and Muslim people should have to bear the responsibility of policing terrorists, when they have nothing to do with why these people decide to make random attacks. I've personally heard Muslims say, these terrorists are not even really devout Muslim, as they disobey Muslim virtues and rules by using their violent force, and they do nothing but bring a horrible stigma over the religion. So if anything these people should not be put in the same "group" as these terrorists, becuase these terrorists couold be considered to not even be Muslim by how badly they disgrace their own religion with their utter disobediance of the religion.

 

[blackhole2]

I wouldnt sit here and say youre a bigot, youre intolerant of terrorists, but that is a rational feeling that most people in the world except terrorists have.



Thanks for your response.



In response to your feelings about how Muslims andthe like should be responsible for their own group, instead of trying to separate themselves from these terrorists, is narrow minded. You have to understand, these terrorists and bad people are such a small small small population of the Muslim population. Almost all Muslims, and most middle eastern countries absolutely condemn these terrorists and everything they stand for.

What what concrete actions do they take?



They are seen as a disgrace to the relgion by most of their own, which is why I understand why they would 'separate' themselves form these terrorists.

Much easier route than try to persecute them for using teh name of their religion in vain...


Islam is the largest religion in the world by population, and most people dont realize that a large portion of Muslims are indonesian, and southeast asian. I think it is ridiculous to say that these people in a whole nother part of the world should take responsibility to deal with these terrorists, just because they believe in the same God[/B].

In my opinion that is all the reasoning that thye need to in order to do something, not just the same denomination...


I also think it is a reach to say that middle eastern and Muslim people should have to bear the responsibility of policing terrorists, when they have nothing to do with why these people decide to make random attacks. I've personally heard Muslims say, these terrorists are not even really devout Muslim, as they disobey Muslim virtues and rules by using their violent force, and they do nothing but bring a horrible stigma over the religion.

That is the traditional speech used in order to relinquish any type of responsibility = get my ass out of the way


So if anything these people should not be put in the same "group" as these terrorists, becuase these terrorists couold be considered to not even be Muslim by how badly they disgrace their own religion with their utter disobediance of the religion.

And that is my reasoning: if they are not part of the group and use the group's name; that same group should persecute them, in order to keep their name clean. Instead of just saying that they have nothing to do with that...

My point is they are guilt not by association but for being passive!

If someone uses my name/identity to do something repulsive and I just say I have nothing to do with that instead of trying to find who did it and try that one the punishment that is deserved am I not as much of a criminal for not carrying about the crime committed using my name?????

Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[machola]

they are guilt for being passive!

ah, the good samaritan law. they made a seinfeld episode about that ... it happens all the time. last month the dali lama chastised the tibetans that rioted in china. in the past kkk lynchings were done in the name of god by "christians". more recently abortion clinics have been bombed by people who identified themselves as christians. the list goes on and no group is without a few bad apples. the majority and leaders can denounce the radicals all they want but the radicals will still call themselves the true sect of the religion/group. what more can you do?

 

[buselmo]

what concrete actions do they take?
QUOTE]

you implied in your first post that "we" have to do something about it. look at my location up over there and you'll know who i speak for. first of all, did you ever search about what other muslim countries are doing about this terrorism? i'm sorry, but you can't just what you just said without looking at the facts. do you know the messed up conditions i have to live in because of these terrorists? do you know how many security check points i have to go through everyday just to go buy some groceries? my civilian ID expired a couple of days ago, do you know what they did? they closed all my bank accounts until i went and renewed it and confirmed my information. do you know how hard it is to western union money from here? do you know how hard intelligence and law enforcement have worked and how many terrorists have they brought down? you didn't even spend 2 minutes researching this. you just generalized and stereotyped and regurgitated everything that is being said on fox news to make muslims look bad. yes, a lot of muslims are closed minded, but most of them don't do anyone any harm. those who harm people are usually the ones that go to prison after doing a haneous crime and say "i did it in the name of islam"... do you know how many muslims there are in the world? ok, go make a search... see how many muslims there are in the world... and now tell me, if 0.1% of those muslims were terrorists, that's an extremely small percentage, how big of a number is that?how many people?

we are doing the best we can to stop these people... but you have to understand, it's very hard to stop someone who was brainwashed into thinking that he killed himself and 20 other innocent people around him he will go to heaven and meet his 72 virgins. that is not written anywhere in our religion. masterminds who want control over oil (mostly... it's not about god, it's about fucking oil), are brain washing 12-17 year old kids. we are deathly afraid to take our kids into these "summer camps" after we knew what happened there.

we are actually doing something about it... lets talk about america now... should we generalize bush's way of thinking to be the general american populations opinion? you fuel terrorism in many ways. the war on afghanistan, the war on iraq... here's a hint, how come wars started on "terror" when a pipeline was declined by afghanistan? and ooooohhh... somehow america cared for the freedom of iraqis and wanted the best for them... and they wanted to rid the world of terrorists like saddam hussain... well let me tell you something... saddam hussain might have been one of the worst people to roam the earth, but the fucker controlled other terrorists and they wouldn't dare say or do shit in front of him when he was alive. good riddens to that bastards, but 2 million other terrorists came out of the woodworks from what happened.

there are many issues you don't understand... your news channels would never show it... trust me... we have a billion news channels here in saudi... everyone says something different and opposing the other channels "proof" with "proof"...

this shit has nothing to do with religion... it's power, control, and oil... that's it... why people find that hard to believe? i don't know... the "terrorist leaders" are out there for the oil, and they brainwashed their minions by taking verses of the quran out of context.

trust me, i'm not a religious person at all... but the things i see americans put on the news and how they twist the truth... man, it's unbelievable...

the problem is... this is a real issue where lives are at stake. and no one bothers to research... but if someone wants to do a steroid cycle, they spend years researching every angle... it's quite funny actually.

sorry if i offended you or anyone else. but i'm on the other side and i'm telling you what's going on.

 

[mike1107]

what concrete actions do they take?
QUOTE]

you implied in your first post that "we" have to do something about it. look at my location up over there and you'll know who i speak for. first of all, did you ever search about what other muslim countries are doing about this terrorism? i'm sorry, but you can't just what you just said without looking at the facts. do you know the messed up conditions i have to live in because of these terrorists? do you know how many security check points i have to go through everyday just to go buy some groceries? my civilian ID expired a couple of days ago, do you know what they did? they closed all my bank accounts until i went and renewed it and confirmed my information. do you know how hard it is to western union money from here? do you know how hard intelligence and law enforcement have worked and how many terrorists have they brought down? you didn't even spend 2 minutes researching this. you just generalized and stereotyped and regurgitated everything that is being said on fox news to make muslims look bad. yes, a lot of muslims are closed minded, but most of them don't do anyone any harm. those who harm people are usually the ones that go to prison after doing a haneous crime and say "i did it in the name of islam"... do you know how many muslims there are in the world? ok, go make a search... see how many muslims there are in the world... and now tell me, if 0.1% of those muslims were terrorists, that's an extremely small percentage, how big of a number is that?how many people?

we are doing the best we can to stop these people... but you have to understand, it's very hard to stop someone who was brainwashed into thinking that he killed himself and 20 other innocent people around him he will go to heaven and meet his 72 virgins. that is not written anywhere in our religion. masterminds who want control over oil (mostly... it's not about god, it's about fucking oil), are brain washing 12-17 year old kids. we are deathly afraid to take our kids into these "summer camps" after we knew what happened there.

we are actually doing something about it... lets talk about america now... should we generalize bush's way of thinking to be the general american populations opinion? you fuel terrorism in many ways. the war on afghanistan, the war on iraq... here's a hint, how come wars started on "terror" when a pipeline was declined by afghanistan? and ooooohhh... somehow america cared for the freedom of iraqis and wanted the best for them... and they wanted to rid the world of terrorists like saddam hussain... well let me tell you something... saddam hussain might have been one of the worst people to roam the earth, but the fucker controlled other terrorists and they wouldn't dare say or do shit in front of him when he was alive. good riddens to that bastards, but 2 million other terrorists came out of the woodworks from what happened.

there are many issues you don't understand... your news channels would never show it... trust me... we have a billion news channels here in saudi... everyone says something different and opposing the other channels "proof" with "proof"...

this shit has nothing to do with religion... it's power, control, and oil... that's it... why people find that hard to believe? i don't know... the "terrorist leaders" are out there for the oil, and they brainwashed their minions by taking verses of the quran out of context.

trust me, i'm not a religious person at all... but the things i see americans put on the news and how they twist the truth... man, it's unbelievable...

the problem is... this is a real issue where lives are at stake. and no one bothers to research... but if someone wants to do a steroid cycle, they spend years researching every angle... it's quite funny actually.

sorry if i offended you or anyone else. but i'm on the other side and i'm telling you what's going on.

I'm with you on it aand I hate this kind of discussions because it always ends up with racist sentences, whatever happens, whatever the religion is ... I really hate when a discussion start like that .. its just me and my opinion, not trying to be an ass or something here ...

and being of arabic background by my dad, I know what I'm talking about

 

[wrought]

So who exactly are you talking about? Jews, Muslims, Christians...? Cuz all major religions have nutjob factions who kill in the name of their beliefs while the rest of that religion declines responsibility.

Real question is, can any reasonable person have respect for any individual who thinks that their imaginary friends give them justification for any act of violence.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I was having dinner last night and at the end for some reason I stated that I had no respect for a certain group of people.

That they are used to kill in name of their religion an that the rest of people that belong to that religion are used to say that they have nothing to do with that...

My rationale is quite simple: it is much easier to say that I have nothing to do with that and be a "partner" in all that killing that trying to do something about it, to be responsible and gutsy

That if someone started killing people and using the fact that they are Brazilian; I'd be the first one to do something to stop them, instead of just saying that I have nothing to do with that and that has nothing to do with being Brazilian...
My whole point is that if you are all part of the same group, you have the responsibility to police your own group and that if in case someone start some sort of rogue activities you have the right/power to do something to stop those activities in name of the group, instead of just trying to excuse yourself and try to dissociate of those people because after all you still are part of the same group to start with.

I'd love to hear you questions/responses.

The statement you made was probably bigoted. Whether you yourself are truly a bigot is doubtful. What I think you are is probably justifiably scared. You are scared that the actions of another group may one day have a bad effect on you (if not already). If you saw a member of this group, say a female or a child, hurt along the roadside, would you refuse to help simply because they were a member of this group? I highly doubt that. Would you refuse to serve a person based simply on their association?

The very fact that you are asking yourself if you are a bigot leads one to believe that you have a conscience and that the remark you made is bothering you. Here's my advice. Use that same conscience and ask yourself which group or ethnicity out there does not have a few radicals. When you see that all people of all races and creeds have these radicals then you begin to understand that it's not a Muslim, Catholic, or Jewish problem, but a human problem. And that makes us all responsible. That makes us all guilty. All people whether black, white, Muslim, Catholic, Jewish have all killed in the name of religion or color. What I'm saying is those people are part of your tribe too - the tribe that lives on planet Earth.

As for distancing yourself from these groups, that's usually all the majority of people can do. You have a job, a wife, some children, a home. Most can't (or simply won't) go on a crusade at that point. Sometimes all you can do is disassociate yourself from those others and lead a life of good example.

Buselmo's post was a nice view from the other side of the glass. Things are much different in reality than they seem in are in our living rooms.

 

[Prometheus615]

I was having dinner last night and at the end for some reason I stated that I had no respect for a certain group of people.

That they are used to kill in name of their religion an that the rest of people that belong to that religion are used to say that they have nothing to do with that...

My rationale is quite simple: it is much easier to say that I have nothing to do with that and be a "partner" in all that killing that trying to do something about it, to be responsible and gutsy

That if someone started killing people and using the fact that they are Brazilian; I'd be the first one to do something to stop them, instead of just saying that I have nothing to do with that and that has nothing to do with being Brazilian...
My whole point is that if you are all part of the same group, you have the responsibility to police your own group and that if in case someone start some sort of rogue activities you have the right/power to do something to stop those activities in name of the group, instead of just trying to excuse yourself and try to dissociate of those people because after all you still are part of the same group to start with.

I'd love to hear you questions/responses.

Bro, why are you asking us if you are a biggot or not? Why dont you just tell us whether you are one or not.

 

[StoryOfTheYear]

IMO, everyone on this planet is human and makes decisions for themselves. I don't feel people should be obligated to do something about someone else's actions just because they're the same religion or same nationality.....unless they choose to...or not...it's really just a matter of personal opinion in matters like these in my opinion -StOrY

 

[blackhole2]

ah, the good samaritan law. they made a seinfeld episode about that ... it happens all the time. last month the dali lama chastised the tibetans that rioted in china. in the past kkk lynchings were done in the name of god by "christians". more recently abortion clinics have been bombed by people who identified themselves as christians. the list goes on and no group is without a few bad apples. the majority and leaders can denounce the radicals all they want but the radicals will still call themselves the true sect of the religion/group. what more can you do?

Take action!

Not just sit behind a desk and say how awful those people are.

 

[Phidias]

you just generalized and stereotyped and regurgitated everything that is being said on fox news



you have to understand, it's very hard to stop someone who was brainwashed into thinking that he killed himself and 20 other innocent people around him he will go to heaven and meet his 72 virgins.



saddam hussain might have been one of the worst people to roam the earth, but the fucker controlled other terrorists and they wouldn't dare say or do shit in front of him when he was alive. good riddens to that bastards, but 2 million other terrorists came out of the woodworks from what happened.


this shit has nothing to do with religion... it's power, control, and oil... that's it... why people find that hard to believe? i don't know... the "terrorist leaders" are out there for the oil, and they brainwashed their minions by taking verses of the quran out of context.


trust me, i'm not a religious person at all... but the things i see americans put on the news and how they twist the truth... man, it's unbelievable...

::ction-sm ::ction-sm ::ction-sm

Buselmo, that's probably the best read I've had on the subject for a long time.

Too many people are led to believe the bullshit nonsense the mass medias closely tied to political power spread out all day long.

Hell you named Fox News... pertains to Ruppert Murdoch, one of GW Bush's best friends...

 

[JohnnyPro]

Your point is well taken, I have heard many people ask why isn't there more objection and outcry from the so called "peaceful ones".

 

[blackhole2]

Bro, why are you asking us if you are a biggot or not? Why dont you just tell us whether you are one or not.

Because the way I think seems to be a form of bigotry/prejudice, but for me it is just logic, maybe twisted and ignorant logic but still logic.

 

[BALDNAZI]

Hmmmmmm

All I want to say is that the world is one big rainbow, and that there is nothing to fear. Lions sleep with lambs in this world, and if it makes you feel better go hug a tree and call him your friend.

I love everyone and I just want you to have a nice day.....

 

[Prometheus615]

All I want to say is that the world is one big rainbow, and that there is nothing to fear. Lions sleep with lambs in this world, and if it makes you feel better go hug a tree and call him your friend.

I love everyone and I just want you to have a nice day.....

Smartest thing anyone has said today

 

[joeshow5]

Jeronimo, what action are YOU taking to stop it?

Like OTC said, its a HUMAN problem that people kill, not a religious problem. So are you out helping or just sitting at your desk talking about how horrible this issue is?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

All I want to say is that the world is one big rainbow, and that there is nothing to fear. Lions sleep with lambs in this world, and if it makes you feel better go hug a tree and call him your friend.

I love everyone and I just want you to have a nice day.....

LOL... yes. You have nothing but love to give! That was funny!

 

[mike1107]

All I want to say is that the world is one big rainbow, and that there is nothing to fear. Lions sleep with lambs in this world, and if it makes you feel better go hug a tree and call him your friend.

I love everyone and I just want you to have a nice day.....

yeah brooooooooooo

 

[blackhole2]

Thank you so much.

Let me try to explain better.

I don't know enough about the subject and that is exactly why I am here asking questions.

I am against making blank statements and putting a huge group of people all in the same level for obvious reasons

I believe that saying that Islam this and Islam that is stupid if I don't know much about Islam myself, and that is the reason why in my original post I was as general as possible therefore trying to make that blank statement as "inclusive" as it can be.

I understand that probably no one has killed more than Christians, Inquisition, Crusades etc, name it and they did it. But they do not have organized groups that want to kill anyone that has a different opinion.

And that is the point where all my tolerance and acceptance goes down the drain. In the place where I was raised we have a saying: your rights stop where mine start!

Whant to use muslins as a example: I'd prefer not but here we go.

Someone publish a cartoon saying that Jesus is gay: public outcry from various groups that feel their faith was disrespected, followed by lawsuit, public apology and everything is settled out of court.


Cartoon with Mohamed on it: kill a random Danish just for being Danish doesn't matter what his opinion/involvement was. Burn the Danish flag, start a riot and burn a few cars, put death treats on the newspaper editor, the cartoonist would better hide.... maybe with some luck nobody else is killed.

Them what is the first thing that the "moderates" do?
"We have nothing to do with that, that is not part of our religion, we regret that our name was used. BYE"


That's exactly why I asked those questions.

Is our tolerance and politically correctiveness killing us?

In my case it would work like this:

If someone started to use the name of a group that I am am member to spread violence and intolerance I'd be in the front asking for their heads if not getting their heads myself, doing my best to erase that cancer before my whole group starts to be seen as a cancer.

I hope that I am being clear when I say that my objective with this thread is to learn and not to offend, I thank you guys for calling me in my own BS, I understand that I am somewhat narrow minded as I have my opinions based in not enough information BUT that is the way I learn best: asking questions...

I believe in no GOD and am against religion, but I believe that those are subjects for another discussion.


J