Androgenic cycles and fatburners?

[The Wolf]

As most of you all know that androgenic cycles such as test, dianabol ect can cause heavy water and fat retention. Would taking something like ECA or Clen be affective to keep the fat gains limited? I know Proviron and Nolvadex is good for that type of stuff but I wouldnt want to take that too early as Nolvadex could limit my gains.

Do any of you take fat burners when on heavy cycles? Even suplements like Animal cut or natrual diruetics as well?

Thank you

 

[The Wolf]

Come on boys, whats going on with this website? It used to be the best place to ask for advice, always use to be helpfull bros sharing info and stuff. The last few posts I made, I hardly had any feedback. It seems that one or two experts here only use this site to attract clients, wont even say hi to you unless your a client and they post stuff that are not even bodybuilding related, like ie, the news, pets, cars ect.

I guess everyones an expert now, oh well maybe things will one day get better here but for now all I can do is hope .

 

[aquaholic]

what is it that you want to know?


Decrease fat gains?
Diet.



DIET.
DIET.
DIET.

 

[The Wolf]

Of course we know about diet but I also know that its easy to put on fat whilst on a haeavy cycle even if diet is clean so I asked about extra supllements to help control fat and water retention.

 

[aquaholic]

Of course we know about diet but I also know that its easy to put on fat whilst on a haeavy cycle even if diet is clean so I asked about extra supllements to help control fat and water retention.

if your diet is completely in check, why would you gain fat?

 

[ALLEX]

Just do light cardio eod while bulking and take anti-e's and water pills to keep water off.

 

[aquaholic]

Just do light cardio eod while bulking and take anti-e's and water pills to keep water off.

Aren't 'water pills' just caffeine?
I don't know anything about cycles and water retention ..
Wouldn't just increasing your water intake help with that?

IMO, wouldn't you want to put LESS In your body if you're doing supp's?
Less is more?

Anyone who can chime in ...

 

[Shelby]

What the hell is "fat retention"?

It sounds to me like you're eating too much.. probably too many carbs. Get a better handle on your diet, do some cardio regularly, and you shouldn't have a problem with fat or water.

 

[thym43]

NO expert here but I am currently on a cycle of Test E and Eq. started it with a D-bol kicker. I went my way up as far as 240 and have now cut to 210No fat burners, no cutters, just diet. I have a show in Nov. I'll start some Tren. at week 8 and it'll really start from there. I only use nolvadex as estrogen control and then only as needed. Proviron did work very well to help keep the water/bloat off during the D-bol kick. I kept cardio at 3 days a week to control the extra "butter" but as you stated Clen is a great option toward the end of a cycle and up through PCT to help metabolize the fat. Big A also has a liquid carnitine that is supposed to be incredible. Check the Synthetek site. Hope that helps some.

 

[aquaholic]

What the hell is "fat retention"?

It sounds to me like you're eating too much.. probably too many carbs. Get a better handle on your diet, do some cardio regularly, and you shouldn't have a problem with fat or water.

Duh Shelby.
Fat retention is a fancy way of saying 'I EAT TOO MUCH'.

Throwing the word 'retention' in makes it sound like it's temporary.

 

[ALLEX]

Aren't 'water pills' just caffeine?
I don't know anything about cycles and water retention ..
Wouldn't just increasing your water intake help with that?

IMO, wouldn't you want to put LESS In your body if you're doing supp's?
Less is more?

Anyone who can chime in ...

The OTC water pill I use is made of Pamabron and it's just slightly diuretic.

 

[ghostdog128]

I'm no expert by any means but I believe the fat gain you're talking about when on heavy androgens isn't exactly from the heavy androgens. It's from the aromitizing gear you're taking. The conversion of test to estrogen is what is causing the excess fat gain and water retention, it's the estrogen causing these problems more so than diet. A good AI should limit this effect. Although you don't want to stop all conversion as some estrogen is needed for optimal functioning.

 

[The Wolf]

Duh Shelby.
Fat retention is a fancy way of saying 'I EAT TOO MUCH'.

Throwing the word 'retention' in makes it sound like it's temporary.

No its not my diet is 100% clean thank you and no carbs after 4pm, the fat retention thing is to do with the extra estrogen and I read that up in Anobolics2002.

Im with you Ghostdog128, thats what I meant by heavy adrongens = estrogen conversion= fat gain.

How about taking any other natural diuretics Alex?

I think I will go with the proviron and nolvadex after the second month of the cycle. Thanks to everybody that has answered my post

 

[norm1220]

since (adrongens = estrogen conversion= fat gain)

try (androgens+anti-aromatase = gains - fat)

Anybody care to check my Math?

Cardio while bulking can keep fat gain to a minimum too, even though most of us hate the idea of doing it.

 

[oldfella]

I disagree with your statement that androgenic cycles cause water and fat retention. This is just not true. It is diet that causes those types of responses to the body. If anything test and anabolics cause the body to be much more efficient at burning calories. High sodium intake while on or off can ncause fluid retention issues and as mentioned excess caloreis of any kind will result in a build up of fat. I have used the compounds you mention and have never gotten bloated or put on excess fat. if training and nutrition are in order you should gain lean mass thus making the body more anabolic and burn more calories.

 

[oldfella]

No its not my diet is 100% clean thank you and no carbs after 4pm, the fat retention thing is to do with the extra estrogen and I read that up in Anobolics2002.

Im with you Ghostdog128, thats what I meant by heavy adrongens = estrogen conversion= fat gain.
How about taking any other natural diuretics Alex?

I think I will go with the proviron and nolvadex after the second month of the cycle. Thanks to everybody that has answered my post[/QUOTE Well if you don't want the Aromatase to occur you need to find a dose that will limit this. This is one of the reasons mega dose test or other AAS is not advisable. Find a low dose that does not give you those sides. But proviron is a good place to start as is arimidex. But find a dose that will allow you to make gains and leave it there. Your body will only produce so much muscle at any given time, more aas does not mean more growth. There are limits to how much lean mass you can put on at a given time. Always take into account that most gear is androgenic by nature. The higher the androgen intake the more androgen there is to aromatise in to estrogen. Again the body will only use so much androgen at a given time also, any more than this is a waste and gets converted!

 

[Phidias]

I disagree with your statement that androgenic cycles cause water and fat retention. This is just not true. It is diet that causes those types of responses to the body. If anything test and anabolics cause the body to be much more efficient at burning calories. High sodium intake while on or off can ncause fluid retention issues and as mentioned excess caloreis of any kind will result in a build up of fat. I have used the compounds you mention and have never gotten bloated or put on excess fat. if training and nutrition are in order you should gain lean mass thus making the body more anabolic and burn more calories.

I AGREE 300% WITH YOU, OZFELLA

 

[ghostdog128]

I disagree with your statement that androgenic cycles cause water and fat retention. This is just not true. It is diet that causes those types of responses to the body. If anything test and anabolics cause the body to be much more efficient at burning calories. High sodium intake while on or off can ncause fluid retention issues and as mentioned excess caloreis of any kind will result in a build up of fat. I have used the compounds you mention and have never gotten bloated or put on excess fat. if training and nutrition are in order you should gain lean mass thus making the body more anabolic and burn more calories.

I agree partly with your statement. While testosterone is known to increase fat lypolysis, oestrogen is known to cause increased water retention and fat gain. Sure NaCl is partly to blame for water retention, but I disagree that it's the whole reason.

Otherwise why would people take AI's to inhibit the effects of oestrogen, and from my own eyes why do people who maintain the same diet that is low in salt to start gain 10-15lbs of water weight the first week of starting test suspension. I would say that you happen to respond well to excess oestrogen.

 

[Tom]

simply...

everybody responds differently to gear. i've known people who use test that get hard as nails, no bloat, no fat. others take the same amount of test but are prone to estrogen conversion, they bloat and put fat on in the lower ab and love handle areas. those that are prone to estro conversion that have used adex in later cycles got much harder leaner gains. just .5 of adex eod can make a world of difference....just watch you're lipid profile.

 

[The Wolf]

I agree with you as well Oldfella, if you take test at moderate doses and it dont aromatize then yeah you stay lean and hard. Its the estrogen that causes guys to get fat. Some are prone to Gyno, some are prone to putting on fat around the backside and legs like a woman(I'm prone to that because my genetics are pear shape anyway).

I will be cycling clen 2 weeks on and off with Eca 2 weeks on and off and drinking a lots and lots of water and keeping the diet clean. I have 2 and a half months for my second competetion and Im dead excited. I hoping to grow into the contest like Arnold used to do. You know my cycle Oldefella

The big competition is in march, this next one is like a mere dress rehersal for me thats why Im trying to focus more on size and brining out problem areas. It should be fun (and hard). In order to better myself I have to have a goal and at least I have something to strive for.