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ARE YOU A WEIGHT LIFTER OR A BODYBUILDER?

LATS

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having the opportunity to own my own gyms, you see people lifting everyday, hour after hour. i see every method of cheating and lifting possible. i always want to ask the member what he is trying to accomplish. "are you hear to lift weights or build muscle?" there is a difference ya know!
the worst thing anyone can do is watch some of the workout tapes available. whether it be one of the battle for the olympia tapes or one of the personal tapes you will see some serious cheating done by the pros. is that bad? not if you know how to throw the stress on the target muscle. can everyone benefit from cheating? not really. if you are a new lifter then i believe that form should be the utmost importance. learn to feel the muscle working. after gaining some considerable experience then venture off to experiment with some momentum and looser style reps.
i bring this up also because i beleiev for alot of the pros it does not matter what or how they lift. i have seen a considerable amount train. they all use loose form and half movements ect. but, does that mean we should... ya know, the "not so genetically endowed".i rememebr watching dillett train in acalifornia a few years back and thinking "maybe he know something i do not" he trained in a loose fashion with half rep presses and fast cadence. but then i realized that this a man who, before he took gear, had twenty inch arms. he always did brag about his great genetics.
so this realization again brought me back to square one.i also decided to get my tapes out and time the sets of the pros. research tells us that sets to stimulate hypertrophty should last between 30 to 45 seconds (give or take). well it was difficult to find a pro that had a set last that long because of the fast cadence of the reps and loose form. the only ones that lasted that long were aaron bakers , preists and dorians. all of whom use very good form. so how do they grow so damn big??? well, genetics has the most to do with it. sergio one time said "it does not matter what i do , my muscles will grow" he wasnt lieing.. nor was he bragging. he was stating a simple truth.
now before ya get to depressed there are ways to work around this. it brings me back to my first question. "are you a weight lifter or a bodybuilder. do you go to the gym to lift weights or do you go to stimulate growth?" we, the genetically average have got to abide by the laws of physiology. we must keep the muscle under tension for the appropriate amount of time. we must aim for a good stretch and a hard comtraction. we must feel the weight over the whole range of motion. not just focusing on getting the desired reps and sling the weight to and fro.
milos sarcev is a good example of one who takes into consideration all aspects of muscle function when he trains. when i visited the old powerhouse in fullerton ca i was amazed at the amount of well known trainers who were letting their clients just sling weight while they yelled out the reps and praised the clients for reaching their rep goals. it appeard to matter not that they did so without the slightest concern for isolating the muscle.
one other bodybuilder who impressed me with his lifting technique was stan mcquay. as most of you know , stan just won the usa championships. i watched him go through a chest workout and he was meticulous about his form. he squeezed and stretched and contracted throughout the whole set of each exercise. he made sure that he gave the muscle all he had and most of his sets were in the 45 second range. he was in a lot of pain because of this. it is harder to lift this way and takes alot of concentration and focus.
so always remeber to up the weight. but, only when you can do so honestly. it matters not that you can not do a 405 incline. most of us will never do so. lift what you can lift....and that is all that matters. remember, if your pecs look like they can do a 405 incline then that is all that matters to the most of us.
 

vitor

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hm

Dear Lats,

What kind of gyms do you run, are you a licensed gym ie powerhouse, golds, or worlds, can post post a link to your gyms website. I ask this because im working with a new startup opening in January.
 

LATS

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ill tell ya what i tell everyone who considers a franchise...dont do it unless you need to!!! the fees are large and the limitations are plenty. the vast majority just want clean facilities and great equipment... the name will not make up for the fees...unless you are in a crowded market. pm if you have any questions..
 

vitor

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hmm

To late, we are using Powerhouse but it is only a license. I live in one of the richest countys in the US, so brand name will help. Powerhouse is real cheap though, 16000 year 1, and 8000 every year after.
 

xcelbeyond

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LATS said:
remember, if your pecs look like they can do a 405 incline then that is all that matters to the most of us.
For us bodybuilders, it really doesn't matter "how much" weight is used as long as you get larger muscles. Strength increases, As a result of increased muscle!

I (or haven't had anyone else I know experience this) haven't had any one say to me "It looks like you can bench 400 pounds!" It seems like if someone's impressed with your muscle (lady grocery clerk asked this to me just last night) will say " it looks like you work out!" - No, Im just this way naturally - j/k - LOL :D

xcel
 

Mr_Magoo

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i totally agree on the form issue but i also believe when u get up there in training years u almost have to cheat, some people might consider my form not sloppy but not strict either but it works for me, its hard to describe but experienced iron lifters will likely know what i mean
 

xcelbeyond

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I know what you mean magoo. "You" know and can "feel" the target muscle working as you perform the movement. I have noticed that my form on some exercises has improved over the years. My bench is performed relatively slow now where I used to go fast to get the reps over with.

xcel
 

LATS

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HEY VITOR, GOOD FOR YOU. like i said, if you are in a crowded market then name recognition may help. good luck to ya..
 

Johnny Bravo

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POWERFUL BODYBUILDER HERE!:D :D :D as far as cheat moves:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I think there a way to get hurt and for those who try to impress others, but what they REALLY do is cause others to heckle and make fun of them :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Just my opinion
 
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LATS

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gyeah, i agree... a little "body english" is not bad but, one must learn the correct form first. you have to learn how to tense and squeeze a muscle before you can incorporate a little cheat. only then can you use cheat methods to create more stress on a given muscle..
 

Trulyhuge

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well,
now someone is busting my balls all over the gym and keeping the muscle tension going for like 45 seconds. man, this week has sucked!(in a great way)!:D
 

boing

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For me a the weight matters not, I look for the feel of the muscle working, and keeping the form the best I can. I will cheat to try and get extra reps if I can.

When I look around the gyms where I train I am amaazed at the way people, kids mostly just ego lift. Somedays I wait for a torn muscle to go pinging across the gym. The funny thing is that these guy's never seem to get injured - Go figure.

Boing "the English_Bulldog"
 

LATS

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WELL TRULYHUGE, I HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN ON YOU. THIS WEEK WAS BREAK IN PERIOD...NEXT WEEK WILL REALLY SUCK...LOL
 

BIGKIWI

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I have always trained with large weights for a few reasons
*feel my body responds alot better higher poundages
*don't just want to be big want to be strong hell to
*enjoy the rush that large weights give me

I do go heavy and can bench 600pound but my form is always the best that it can be at the heavier weights never bounching off chest etc. I will ocassionally mix it all up and do higher reps lighter weights but the majority time is heavy.

kiwi
 

slide

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This is a great question, which actually made me step back and reevaluate the way I train. I think in the beginning, that is, the first time I stepped into a gym, I was a weight-thrower. I'd go in, throw some plates/dumbells around, and go home. Now, it's totally different.

I don't care too much how much weight is on the bar (or I don't care what other's think about that weight I should say), but I care about making gains in size/strength, and being able to add weight to what I did the previous week (2 1/2's?!?!?). I now concentrate on the muscle (and actually understand what that means) instead of picking up as much weight as I can and making the most noise.

I do concentrate on form, and try to stay as "strict" as possible, and do on occasion throw in the old "cheat," but, it's something that's adapted to or "learned" as you progress in your training years (see Mr. Magoo's and Xcel's previous posts -- and I certainly don't want to imply that my training is anywhere near the level of those two!). I think I'm slowly but surely making the transition from the "weight-lifter."

---slide---
 

JETHRO TULL

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YEP, PAUL DILLET'S TRAINING STYLE.....

ISN'T THE WAY I'D SHOW MY NEPHEW'S HOW TO LIFT. [OR ANYONE ELSE I KNOW....] SOMETIMES GREAT PHYSICAL GENETICS ARE GIVEN TO THOSE WHO LACK MENTAL PROWESS. [PAUL DILLET IS OBVIOUSLY A STUPID BASTARD. I SAW HIM OUT IN SEATTLE WASHINGTON TALKING ON HIS CELL PHONE IN A HOTEL LOBBY....PHUCK THIS, PHUCK THAT, TALKING LOUD AND ACTING PROUD WITH WOMEN AND KIDS AROUND. HE GOT BUSTED NOT TOO LONG AFTER THAT...........GOSH I FELT BAD FOR HIM. HAHAHA
 
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Jimbo

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Big weights build big muscles
Big muscles build big weights.

I have nothing againts going heavy, even in the 2-5 rep range as long as your form is fine!
 

titan

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BBing all the way!
 

doug1

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once again an excellent post lats, thanks, i agree that form is often sacraficed for poundage. sometimes people get too caught up in meeting the desired number of reps that they lack the mind muscle link and in doing so have less than optimal muscle contractions which translates into less than optimal muscle growth. i agree we should strive to lift more and more weight, but...IMO the pendulum has swung too far to the side of "just lift heavy weight" and you'll get big. if it was that simple than powerlifters would be bigger than bb's.
 

Big A

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doug1 said:
once again an excellent post lats
It's good to have an IronMan writer on here, isn't it?? :D
 

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