Assess this flex article please

street · Jun 18, 2008

http://www.flexonline.com/flex_muscle_fiber/training/143

They have a clear point but...I think it may be over theorised to the point of not being practicle.I would say bodybuilders do up to 4 exercise angles per muscle because it works otherwise we would all do squats benches rows and laterals and not much more.Not many top physiques around train that way.

KROD · Jun 18, 2008

street said:
we would all do squats benches row...es around train that way.[/QUOTE] Says who?

maldorf · Jun 18, 2008

the longer I am around, been bodybuilding now for about 22 years, I find that this article is very true. Stick to the basics, they work.

street · Jun 18, 2008

Typical .Did you even read the article.If you understood it you would not reply that way.The article is against multi angle training.
The flex article says to only do the most basic excercise not to use any angle training,hence they say to train that way.They even give the example that inclines are not very useful .Did you miss that.You need only bench althought their words imply declines not flat benches as that is the natural pushing away angle.So thats it you just do declines for chest as i said not many or any champs just do declines.If you believe that is correct ,then see you on stage.

The longer I have been around I see that if for example ,you want more outer head on the bicep then you need an excercise that hits that area just getting stronger on regular bb curls will not bring out that muscle or it would already be poppin' out there .

maldorf · Jun 18, 2008

street said:
Typical .Did you even read the article.If you understood it you would not reply that way.The article is against multi angle training.
The flex article says to only do the most basic excercise not to use any angle training,hence they say to train that way.They even give the example that inclines are not very useful .Did you miss that.You need only bench althought their words imply declines not flat benches as that is the natural pushing away angle.So thats it you just do declines for chest as i said not many or any champs just do declines.If you believe that is correct ,then see you on stage.

The longer I have been around I see that if for example ,you want more outer head on the bicep then you need an excercise that hits that area just getting stronger on regular bb curls will not bring out that muscle or it would already be poppin' out there .

Ask Phil Hernon what he thinks about this article. My experience over the years and then finally hooking up with him was enough to convince me that you really dont need all those angles. Only the basics. Im doing just declines now and an occasional dip and my chest is better than ever.

PHIL HERNON · Jun 18, 2008

Well

No comment

maldorf · Jun 18, 2008

PHIL HERNON said:
No comment

LOL.

knucklehed · Jun 18, 2008

MHO

Multiple-Multi-angle exercises = waste of time. Muscles either contract or not. One of the few exceptions might be back width and back thickness.
Simple-compound-heavy

halflife · Jun 18, 2008

I remember a bodybuilder on MDTV a little while ago, forgot his name - but everyone would know him if I could think of it-, but that's what he believed in 100%.

He would be going in between machines and lifts with little to rest and working different angles. He would throw in just one set of something just because it did a different angle. He would also in the MIDDLE of the set change his position so he would work it at a different angle. That is what the BBer kept talking about is - its all about working it from all the angles. He said he's brought out muscles that most people don't even know about HAHA.

I don't believe in that - moderation is key in my opinion. Especially for trying to gain mass I believe angle stuff should be done in moderation. Switch up your movements (angle, hand grip, etc.) every couple of weeks at the most. Just my opinion.

Drago · Jun 18, 2008

so it's better to do 8 sets on a compound movement than 4 exercises with 2 sets each ?

Fa Seeshus · Jun 18, 2008

halflife said:
I remember a bodybuilder on MDTV a little while ago, forgot his name - but everyone would know him if I could think of it-, but that's what he believed in 100%.

He would be going in between machines and lifts with little to rest and working different angles. He would throw in just one set of something just because it did a different angle. He would also in the MIDDLE of the set change his position so he would work it at a different angle. That is what the BBer kept talking about is - its all about working it from all the angles. He said he's brought out muscles that most people don't even know about HAHA.

I don't believe in that - moderation is key in my opinion. Especially for trying to gain mass I believe angle stuff should be done in moderation. Switch up your movements (angle, hand grip, etc.) every couple of weeks at the most. Just my opinion.

you are thinking of ben white. remember his "warmup" though? he still centers the workout around a heavy basic compound movement. the impression i got from that vid, is that he is a very stand-offish dude who is going to have trouble dealing with people and marketing his image. maybe getting his ass kicked by kai at the ny pro changed that some though.

the article has a point, but there also is the issue of over-use and pattern overload. i switch between incline barbell one week and flat bench the next, simply because doing one of them all the time screws up my shoulder. the different angle gives my joints a little bit of relief. same goes for front squats and back squats. i don't see the point of doing them in the same workout, but the variation of switching between then does seem to prevent nagging injuries.

c3r3br0 · Jun 18, 2008

I remember ...

I remember taking a class a while ago with Tom Platz and he said the same thing and I've never looked back because it cut out wasted time. I also think Charles Stanley(?) said the same thing as well.

Muscles basically contract the same way, the only thing that angling does is put more or less stress on the stabilizers or secondary movers (like Fa Seeshus is saying) but the primaries contract the same way every time. That's not to say leverage doesn't come into play, like doing presses on the floor, but that's a little different.

I don't think it's possible to flex one part of a muscle.

halflife · Jun 18, 2008

Fa Seeshus said:
you are thinking of ben white. remember his "warmup" though? he still centers the workout around a heavy basic compound movement. the impression i got from that vid, is that he is a very stand-offish dude who is going to have trouble dealing with people and marketing his image. maybe getting his ass kicked by kai at the ny pro changed that some though.

the article has a point, but there also is the issue of over-use and pattern overload. i switch between incline barbell one week and flat bench the next, simply because doing one of them all the time screws up my shoulder. the different angle gives my joints a little bit of relief. same goes for front squats and back squats. i don't see the point of doing them in the same workout, but the variation of switching between then does seem to prevent nagging injuries.

Good memory, I just watched it last week I couldn't think of his name at the moment. But yea your right his 'warmup' 315 bench HAHA of flat bench. He's a HILARIOSE guy - conversation about Johnny Jackson ::ction-sm . "Cows can eat grass and get big, I can eat grass and get big." SHH I think his secret is the fact he listens to ONLY 50 cent.

I was balling after that interview.

And the way his workouts all... he's such a genetic freak.

Tom · Jun 18, 2008

Simple

A muscle contracts under resistance from origin to insertion. Your muscle does not know if you are doing a flat, incline or decline press and will grow to it's predetermined size and shape according to it's genetic potential.

mrshoulders · Jun 18, 2008

There is a certain aspect of multi angle training for refining a physique and the incorporation of different muscle fibers...

duceswild · Jun 18, 2008

so whats the verdict here? does multi angle training work or is a waste of time ive been training for 8yrs and i have done a mix of the two straight compound 3mths and angle training 3mths etc. very similair results, ive broken platues on both regimens but i have yet to hear a solid answer on this subject . id really like to hear from the pros on this

c3r3br0 · Jun 19, 2008

Two cents alert

Incline, decline, and flat bench all work the pectorals the same way once it is engaged but not necessarily with the same effeciency. Muscles always contract the same way and that doesn't change, it's Kinesiology rule #1.

There are differences between individuals and their physiology. When I was younger I would do inclines because the top part of my pecs would create a shelf and as we all know inclines work the "upper chest". As I got older I learned that the incline has nothing to do with it, it's just that my muscle fibers spread a little higher than most.

The muscles themselves don't contract differently whether we're upside down right side up laying on our side, incline, decline, etc. It's just that more or less stress is being put on other muscles aiding the movement. It could also be detrimental with stress on ligaments and joints.

I think the biggest benefit with angles is the mental boost you get when doing different exercises. I mean how many chest routines can you do with just a flat bench press or fly before it's just plain boring.

So it's kind of a yes and a no. Physically, it's a no but the mind has a profound effect on our lifts and so if it keeps you in the gym, motivated, and you're not headed towards a fracture or tear then go for it.