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Broomstick stretch DC

Matsuo Munefusa

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Hoping Dante or John Meadows can chime in. I've been doing the broomstick behind the back stretch to try to improve mobility. I actually use a band as per MountainDogs advice. I have OK mobility but one thing I always notice is that bringing the band/stick back up after going down seems kind of strenuous in a strange way, as if the muscles that need to fire aren't firing correctly and I think my traps or delts take over and make it feel awkward as hell. I think this should be subscapularis working to bring arms back up from behind back and overhead and then back to starting position? Or am I way off here?

I've been diagnosed years ago as upper trap dominant and weak/dormant subscapularis.

Is there any exercise that I can start to wake this up because simply doing this stretch, while it does improve my shoulder mobility isn't really working to correct whatever imbalance I have going on with that behind the back raise portion of the move.

@DOGGCRAPP
@mountaindog1
@Knight9
 

cm

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Ive known many who do this to have it cause more problems then alleviate them. spasms, tightness, knots for weeks, undue strain on the ligaments that are already tight as can be. I would find an alternative a bit less dynamic, a bit less problematic. some stretches arent meant to be forced for everybody
 

Fa Seeshus

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I use the trx to get into similar positions and just do static holds like cm mentioned. You might need to trigger point ball your upper traps from what your are describing.
 

Gravyv

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Try using a towel instead. Also add in some mobility movements if you aren't already. Just doing various shoulder movements through different ranges of motions will help. I do a whole bunch with out weights, 1 minute alternating each arm while watching a movie in my chair. Cuban rotations, elbow kisses, shoulder presses, front raises, etc.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Try using a towel instead. Also add in some mobility movements if you aren't already. Just doing various shoulder movements through different ranges of motions will help. I do a whole bunch with out weights, 1 minute alternating each arm while watching a movie in my chair. Cuban rotations, elbow kisses, shoulder presses, front raises, etc.
For some reason the band feels friendlier to me, is towel superior though you think? I just started the band recently actually because of something Meadows said about using one instead of a stick.

What kind of mobility stuff should I add?

Currently pre-workout I do:
Band pull aparts
Spider walks
Facepulls
And a subscap internal rotation

Ive known many who do this to have it cause more problems then alleviate them. spasms, tightness, knots for weeks, undue strain on the ligaments that are already tight as can be. I would find an alternative a bit less dynamic, a bit less problematic. some stretches arent meant to be forced for everybody
Thanks CM! So, I do the move pretty slow. It's very controlled. I only do on average 2-3 reps a "set" (lol) because each one takes about 20 seconds. I tend to stay in the sticking point for 5-10 seconds because it feels good and I guess I'm helping open up my chest/shoulders. You think this is dangerous this way if I'm being very controlled with the move?
 
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Matsuo Munefusa

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I was honestly thinking about just releasing the move once I get behind my back and resetting it at the front (instead of bringing it up and over again). Is this smart if the behind the back up and over portion of the move feels strange to me?

If it makes any difference I always lagged on pull overs back in the day vs my training partner. Our bench was the same but he could pullover way more than I could. Seems like similar move in some ways so maybe I just suck at that type of movement?

@cm
 

alfresco

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Thank you DC for this!

The best ‘exercise’ for my shoulders. I use a 5 foot piece of thick pvc pipe. Wide grip,
bring the pipe down in front and up over your head top back down to my waist.
A few sets of 20 – 30 reps works for me. I believe that doing this regularly has saved
my shoulders. Any time something flairs up in my shoulders it is because I have backed
off on this exercise. I start doing them again and I become pain free. I do them several
times a day now that I am home. I love them.

Funny story. My wife a ‘slap tear’ in her shoulder 10 years ago. I got her an appointment
with the orthopedic surgeon for a local pro football team, he said she could go either way
. . . surgery or rehab. She was on the fence. (She opted for rehab and it resolved.)

He could tell by looking at me I lifted weights and asked me what I did. He them proceed
to tell me I would be in to see him sooner or later. Well . . . I am 66 now (20 years later)
and I am good to go despite all the stupid shit I did when I was younger (thankfully never
any explosive movements . . . they are the worst.). And I do behind the neck presses and
behind the neck chins. Both I have heard trainers say are movements to avoid but by doing,
anything behind the neck. but I do them because I can do them if that makes any sense.

Hope this helps.
 

tren_plz

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^^ Also highly recommend Squat University. I personally use a band just like you and use a lacrosse ball and do some fascia smashing beforehand. Deep tissue work along with ART from the right Chiro makes a world of difference.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Thank you DC for this!

The best ‘exercise’ for my shoulders. I use a 5 foot piece of thick pvc pipe. Wide grip,
bring the pipe down in front and up over your head top back down to my waist.
A few sets of 20 – 30 reps works for me. I believe that doing this regularly has saved
my shoulders. Any time something flairs up in my shoulders it is because I have backed
off on this exercise. I start doing them again and I become pain free. I do them several
times a day now that I am home. I love them.

Funny story. My wife a ‘slap tear’ in her shoulder 10 years ago. I got her an appointment
with the orthopedic surgeon for a local pro football team, he said she could go either way
. . . surgery or rehab. She was on the fence. (She opted for rehab and it resolved.)

He could tell by looking at me I lifted weights and asked me what I did. He them proceed
to tell me I would be in to see him sooner or later. Well . . . I am 66 now (20 years later)
and I am good to go despite all the stupid shit I did when I was younger (thankfully never
any explosive movements . . . they are the worst.). And I do behind the neck presses and
behind the neck chins. Both I have heard trainers say are movements to avoid but by doing,
anything behind the neck. but I do them because I can do them if that makes any sense.

Hope this helps.
That helps man, thank you.

On belay, Alfresco 👍
 

Gravyv

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The broom stick circles shouldn't be the focus of your mobility work. Its kind of like a mobility movement + exercise. You end up getting some crazy pumps because it also creates tension.

Focus on doing various full ranges of movement for time. You can do some of these while seated at a desk. The goal is to condition your body to do these movements without much tension. Don't approach it like you're trying to get a pump. Think along the lines of fighters training different techniques so they get efficient and more loose.

Bear crawls and jumping jacks are exercises that also helps the shoulders.
I don't know the names for all of the ones I do, so I'll describe them.

Front + side raises (reg + supinated), all the way to the ceiling.
Elbow kisses / butterflies (arms straight out).
Arms straight out, hand twists.
Shrugs (no weights).
Bentover thoracic twists.
Cuban rotations (parallel and perpendicular to body)

If your mobility is good then you should be able to do these movements with a good range of motion without feeling a lot of tension. Obviously for lifters it gets harder when you start putting on a lot of size, so it's important to get practice. If your range of motion is really bad then you'll need to incorporate some static stretching prior.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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The broom stick circles shouldn't be the focus of your mobility work. Its kind of like a mobility movement + exercise. You end up getting some crazy pumps because it also creates tension.

Focus on doing various full ranges of movement for time. You can do some of these while seated at a desk. The goal is to condition your body to do these movements without much tension. Don't approach it like you're trying to get a pump. Think along the lines of fighters training different techniques so they get efficient and more loose.

Bear crawls and jumping jacks are exercises that also helps the shoulders.
I don't know the names for all of the ones I do, so I'll describe them.

Front + side raises (reg + supinated), all the way to the ceiling.
Elbow kisses / butterflies (arms straight out).
Arms straight out, hand twists.
Shrugs (no weights).
Bentover thoracic twists.
Cuban rotations (parallel and perpendicular to body)

If your mobility is good then you should be able to do these movements with a good range of motion without feeling a lot of tension. Obviously for lifters it gets harder when you start putting on a lot of size, so it's important to get practice. If your range of motion is really bad then you'll need to incorporate some static stretching prior.
Thanks man! I'm going to study up and think on this post tonight after work. Much appreciated
 

cm

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For some reason the band feels friendlier to me, is towel superior though you think? I just started the band recently actually because of something Meadows said about using one instead of a stick.

What kind of mobility stuff should I add?

Currently pre-workout I do:
Band pull aparts
Spider walks
Facepulls
And a subscap internal rotation


Thanks CM! So, I do the move pretty slow. It's very controlled. I only do on average 2-3 reps a "set" (lol) because each one takes about 20 seconds. I tend to stay in the sticking point for 5-10 seconds because it feels good and I guess I'm helping open up my chest/shoulders. You think this is dangerous this way if I'm being very controlled with the move?
[/QUO

the way youre doing it sounds very different then just the forceful back and forth usually associated with any weight training movement
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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I am interested in mobility work too matsuo

Maybe we make a routine with what is most important for us meatheads ?
I would love any suggestions. One of my biggest downfalls has been losing some of my mobility as I've gained 50lb of muscle in the past 10 years. Add some catastrophic injuries in there and I'm kind of a mess compared to where I want to be. I'm slowly trying to balance out my mass and mobility. Both are important for feeling good over your lifetime. Mobility is probably more important especially after a certain extent extra mass can actually work against you as you age...
 

biglizard225

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Ive known many who do this to have it cause more problems then alleviate them. spasms, tightness, knots for weeks, undue strain on the ligaments that are already tight as can be. I would find an alternative a bit less dynamic, a bit less problematic. some stretches arent meant to be forced for everybody
That sucks man it’s godsend for mine. I jacked my right shoulder last year just warming up with moderate weight and rehab was going slow up until I saw DC doing these and they were like night and day with the rehab time.

same this with my left shoulder her a month ago. Per tendon and front delt are bothering me and I started doing these until an extreme lactic acid burn. 100 reps or so and they have help already

So apparently work some and don’t for others. I guess it just depends on your structure and the other 1000 different things it could depend on Lol
 

cm

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That sucks man it’s godsend for mine. I jacked my right shoulder last year just warming up with moderate weight and rehab was going slow up until I saw DC doing these and they were like night and day with the rehab time.

same this with my left shoulder her a month ago. Per tendon and front delt are bothering me and I started doing these until an extreme lactic acid burn. 100 reps or so and they have help already

So apparently work some and don’t for others. I guess it just depends on your structure and the other 1000 different things it could depend on Lol
one of the lucky ones your shoulders can still handle it. like the guy in the gym, after 30 years -still heavy flat benching. not too many of those
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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That sucks man it’s godsend for mine. I jacked my right shoulder last year just warming up with moderate weight and rehab was going slow up until I saw DC doing these and they were like night and day with the rehab time.

same this with my left shoulder her a month ago. Per tendon and front delt are bothering me and I started doing these until an extreme lactic acid burn. 100 reps or so and they have help already

So apparently work some and don’t for others. I guess it just depends on your structure and the other 1000 different things it could depend on Lol
If you haven't done them in awhile do they pump you to all holy hell? I restarted them awhile ago and get so fucking pumped from them. Then a "good" sore in muscles sets in the next day, not a joint "bad" sore but feels like I did a ton of lateral or rear delt raises :eek:
 

biglizard225

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If you haven't done them in awhile do they pump you to all holy hell? I restarted them awhile ago and get so fucking pumped from them. Then a "good" sore in muscles sets in the next day, not a joint "bad" sore but feels like I did a ton of lateral or rear delt raises :eek:

Yeah sometimes you just stumble upon things that really work and these truly work for me. There awesome
 

Kaladryn

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I've been diagnosed years ago as upper trap dominant and weak/dormant subscapularis.

This is one of the most common issues in bodybuilders and weight lifters, it's all some form of scapular dyskinesis. This is basically caused by doing repetitive "non-functional" movements, such as pressing with the shoulder blades supported by a bench. Note that it doesn't mean the muscles are weak necessarily, it means the nerve isn't firing the muscle properly, either not when it should or in the incorrect order relative to other muscles. This can easily be retrained by a doctor (of physical therapy). The problem is, the subscap is complex and pulls in many different directions and the fact that it interacts with so many other muscles (other rotators and assistors like pecs, lats, etc. Figuring out what your specific problem is and correcting it can take some diagnosing and even trial and error. For me, I started seeing good results after working with a therapist weekly for about a year and excellent results after 2 years. I still continue to see my PT weekly and it's a problem that can come back if you don't continue to do therapy/exercises for it.

Note, stretches like the broomstick one Dante recommends that address the opposing muscles (which are often tight) probably work well primarily because they engage the subscap in a therapeutic way.

Almost all tight muscles have an origin in this same imbalance: opposite and neurological. This is why static stretching doesn't really work, the tightness in the muscle will resolve itself if the issue with the nerve firing the opposing muscle is resolved.
 

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