Bulk, and still staying lean

[buildingmuscle]

when bodybuilders are off season,,, most still stay fairly lean, have abs still.

Is it because they are running mast, tren or? with there other bulking agents,,,

I know if i just run test, deca, adrol or dbol, i normally gain unwanted weight in the mid section,, so was just wondering if they are running something like tren or mast in all cycles or what,,,,, which I know the diet and cardio sessions change during bulking or cutting cycles but still wondered what would be the best for gaining mass while still staying fairly lean,,,,

any info appreciated

 

[kkqq11]

Staying lean why bulking is probably gh related

 

[sma]

DIET . DIET . And oh yea DIET

I know you wanted to here an easy answer but thats the honest answer if your trying to grow compounds like Gh should always be there in varying doses as well as Tren but they can't fix a diet and workout that is broke

 

[Bro]

as far as I know, most bodybuilders in their off season don't still have abs and some look downright fat.

John Meadows is the only bodybuilder I know of who stays very lean in the off season

 

[buildingmuscle]

pro

i know diet is key,, but even really clean eating, i still seem to get a bit of unwanted weight,,

a couple of pros live in the city that i do,, i seen one that was off season and still looked pretty good

I always like running tren with most all my stacks,, at least here the past few cycles, it helps alot,, where used to i wouldnt add any tren or mast or gh and would always get too much unwanted weight work in progress

 

[buildingmuscle]

DIET . DIET . And oh yea DIET

I know you wanted to here an easy answer but thats the honest answer if your trying to grow compounds like Gh should always be there in varying doses as well as Tren but they can't fix a diet and workout that is broke

i totally agree with you

 

[sammy555]

Diet, gh and tren in that order. Unless you're mega dosing in which case gh, tren, diet. If you run a gram of tren and 10 iu gh ed diet becomes somewhat irrelevant. I recommend using less and eating clean with the majority of carbs on workout days.

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[tkav1980]

DIET! go talk ot Phil hernon or John Meadows theyll keep you lean and youll grow like a champ. its not the drugs its diet.

 

[Google&Pubmed]

Diet!

But if you want drugs...GH, Steroids, and peptides for non-human research

GH...rips

Steroids...test and tren

and if you want to do some research on your animals during lean bulking then I would say

peptides...GHRP, cjc without dac, myo inhibitors, des, lr3, and/or...

 

[odality]

HGH is the key.


But its about genetic too.

I can't go over 12%bf even with force-feeding, i don't take GH.

It's not easy to increase my weight though. :banghead:... only 185 for 1.74 atm.

 

[Jizzmo]

in my opinion if you want to grow at the fastest rate you need to learn to accept puffiness, chubbyness, water retention and maybe losing your abs in the off season (depending on genetics, i can always see my abs no matter how fat i get because of how they insert, but there is a huge difference in terms of separation when im carb depleted vs bulking).

if you ask me you need lots of carbs to grow (i do try to keep them not so high on off days though) and lots of carbs with lots of testosterone usually means bloat, puffiness and moonface (at least for me).
using less test lets me eat slightly more carbs without bloating up though. im currently on a gram and upwards of 400g carbs my face bloats up like mad (no matter if theres tren or mast in the mix).

when i was bulking on low test high tren i could eat probably 500-600g carbs a day, but after a few weeks my face would still blow up with water

 

[sma]

in my opinion if you want to grow at the fastest rate you need to learn to accept puffiness, chubbyness, water retention and maybe losing your abs in the off season (depending on genetics, i can always see my abs no matter how fat i get because of how they insert, but there is a huge difference in terms of separation when im carb depleted vs bulking).

if you ask me you need lots of carbs to grow (i do try to keep them not so high on off days though) and lots of carbs with lots of testosterone usually means bloat, puffiness and moonface (at least for me).
using less test lets me eat slightly more carbs without bloating up though. im currently on a gram and upwards of 400g carbs my face bloats up like mad (no matter if theres tren or mast in the mix).

when i was bulking on low test high tren i could eat probably 500-600g carbs a day, but after a few weeks my face would still blow up with water

could not disagree more .. you dont have to accept unwanted weight gain to put on slabs of muscle .. your doind something wrong gains take time ..1-2 lbs a week is more then enough

 

[Jizzmo]

could not disagree more .. you dont have to accept unwanted weight gain to put on slabs of muscle .. your doind something wrong gains take time ..1-2 lbs a week is more then enough

well im talking about putting on muscle the fastest. imo bulking with a big surplus is more effective than trying to stay lean, carb cycling or something alone these lines. with the correct amount of hormones you wont put on much fat anyway even in a big surplus, but water retention is good for the joints, for nutrient transport etc etc.
thats why the majority of pros blows up in the off season (note: with water, not with fat).

hes probably still below 8% BF, just retains a TON of water and therefore looks fat. just learn to deal with it
**broken link removed**

 

[The_Beast]

Many good points have been made. There are 3 more that we should consider:

1. Starting point: A pro/high level amateur often starts his off-season after a contest or a string of contests. If you start your off-season at 4% body fat you have a lot more room to gain fat while staying lean then if you start a bulking phase at 10% (most non-competitive guys who claim to be 7-8% are really 10-11%).

2. Muscle mass: When someone carries 235lbs (roughly 245-250 contest shape) of lean body mass his body burns a ton more calories than someone who has a lean body mass of 190-200 (215-220 in contest shape) and even more than someone who carries 160-180lbs of lean body mass. Each pound of muscle increases daily caloric expenditure by about 50-60kcals. So someone with 40lbs more lean body mass burns roughly 2000 calories per day more than the guy with less mass. This obviously means that they can eat a lot more (and even eat some junk) which much less "damage".

3. Insulin sensitivity: This goes back to point 1. The leaner you are the more sensitive you are to insulin and thus the less fat you'll tend to store.

 

[sma]

well im talking about putting on muscle the fastest. imo bulking with a big surplus is more effective than trying to stay lean, carb cycling or something alone these lines. with the correct amount of hormones you wont put on much fat anyway even in a big surplus, but water retention is good for the joints, for nutrient transport etc etc.
thats why the majority of pros blows up in the off season (note: with water, not with fat).

hes probably still below 8% BF, just retains a TON of water and therefore looks fat. just learn to deal with it
**broken link removed**

No one said carb cycling putting on water does not affect your fat % just your look he is still 6% in that pic but looks more towards 8%. Im actually speaking about putting on fat you should be eating the proper amount of food thats required to put on muscle no more no less what amount from what macros and sources is something you have to play with. But in terms of big surplus its just not a valid point some can grow with just an additional 200 cals while taking more rest days others like to train more and eat more its individual and sometimes its a back and forth method but once you get in tune you will see what that is and what works for you

 

[sammy555]

I'm with sma on this one. It's easy to get impatient and over eat (tren makes me overeat like a mofo) for most people 10 lb of muscle gain in a year is a good goal 15 tops, so if you can nail diet and gain about an average of 1 qualities lb a month Your on the right track. Some months it may be a little more with a 2 week mini cut needed hear and there but I'm all about lean slow gains from hear on out. I like to always be within 2 days of swimming pool ready as sometimes that's all the notice I get if my boy has a pool party. Even mid bulk I can train,then 8 hours of just protein and moderate fat , 24 hour fast and a quick recarb. Stomach flat, bloat gone muscles full, this relies on being sub 10% year round and holding very good insulin sensitivity for the recarb to have full effect . With gh, peps,cruising,intelligent carb timing and the diet knowledge available on pm very doable without sacrificing gains.

This being said if I were trying to go up a weight class rather than trying to just be the biggest leanest guy in the gym (I'm not, YET) I may let bodyfat go up to 12 or so. I never feel good about myself when I creep above 10% which I havnt for a long time. Was quit depressed on boxing day when my stomach was huge and looked fat. Was a head fuck but bloat gone now and the tren got me through it

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[Jizzmo]

its probably an individual thing. since im not using GH but just AAS and maybe some peps here and there i dont stay that lean year round. the bodyfat % my body feels best and gains best at is 12% and above. when im below that my energy levels suffer, my workouts suck and the rate of muscle gains is not even close to when im between 12-15% BF. i usually cut twice a year for maybe 8-12 weeks depending on where i started and where i want to be. in the end that puts me into a -for me- nice summer condition (probably somewhere between 8-10% BF (as in my avi)). as an endo i would hate myself going any lower than that for weeks at a time. just doesnt feel right to me, no libido, cravings, hunger pains etc.

i store a lot of glycogen and a lot of water, so the biggest difference is actually not the bodyfat percentage for me, but rather much many carbs im eating. when i do keto for 2 weeks i look pretty lean (and flat), even though my BF can still be high.

 

[jm425]

Diet is the most important thing in the offseason. If you eat like shit all the time, you will look like shit. A lot of the pros in the offseason will still eat relatively clean but will throw in more cheat meals compared to when they diet down. Hgh also plays a role as well. The pros do a lot of gh in the offseason as well which also keeps them relatively lean. I know people want to dismiss gh by saying it's overrated and such, but at higher doses it works wonders at keeping fat off/low.

 

[thehazzle]

If your not close to your genetic limit you'll need to eat to grow and accept some fat gain.

Advanced bodybuilders like shelby and meadows that are looking to refine do a lot better staying lean.

50mcg t3 helps stay lean as does carb cycling.
Carbs are a massive head fuck for me as I bloat a lot on them and look twice as fat

 

[sammy555]

its probably an individual thing. since im not using GH but just AAS and maybe some peps here and there i dont stay that lean year round. the bodyfat % my body feels best and gains best at is 12% and above. when im below that my energy levels suffer, my workouts suck and the rate of muscle gains is not even close to when im between 12-15% BF. i usually cut twice a year for maybe 8-12 weeks depending on where i started and where i want to be. in the end that puts me into a -for me- nice summer condition (probably somewhere between 8-10% BF (as in my avi)). as an endo i would hate myself going any lower than that for weeks at a time. just doesnt feel right to me, no libido, cravings, hunger pains etc.

i store a lot of glycogen and a lot of water, so the biggest difference is actually not the bodyfat percentage for me, but rather much many carbs im eating. when i do keto for 2 weeks i look pretty lean (and flat), even though my BF can still be high.

You hold your fat well to be fair. All mine goes straight towards a pot belly hence the need to stay lean as possible. I have a very narrow waist which is good for taper and illusion of size but it can only grow forwards when full so side on is shit and every ounce of visceral fat makes it worse.

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