Bulk, and still staying lean

[ajdos]

I have found through personal experience, and there is some research and anecdote to support, that between 1-2g protein/lb LBM and between 1-3+g carbs/lb LBM, with enough fats (50-75g) has been about ideal for me. I let multiple things dictate how I adjust within those ranges, and they are not strict ranges unless dieting down in a strict calculated fashion.

For instance:

If my training intensity is high, I'll notice my body craves more protein and some added carbs to recover. My appetite increases and I feed it accordingly.

-On AAS, I can handle more protein and my appetite will justify it.

-On AAS + GH I can handle more carbs + protein + fat (I barely add much though) and my appetite is up to justify that. This is where I'm at the 1.5-1.75g/lb LBM protein and carbs for a ballpark average.

-On AAS + GH + Slin I need closer to 2g/lb LBM+ of protein/carbs to satisfy my appetite.

Here is why focusing on creating the appetite is a much better idea than force feeding:

Think of when babies are growing, or adolescents during puberty. Big appetites. Why - because their bodies are pumping out GH (younger children) and androgens (puberty), which cause metabolic changes in the body. Those changes are processes, and those processes require energy and raw material. The body is smart, so it tells us we're hungry. If we feed it well, it grows well. As bodybuilders, we have a very good (or should have at least) idea of the type of nutrition that works well for us both in general, and for ourselves individually.

Force feeding for the sake of growing has only made me and anyone I know fat..even if it's all "clean," though less so of course than if I ate "dirty."


**sorry If my writing is crappy - long, exhausting day**



Thanks! 3-4 meals has proven ideal for me. I've eaten up to 5 or 6 when I was at a very high LBM, but that's mainly because I needed many more calories and 3-4 meals would create meals that are simply too big on most occasions.



Was thinking about that, mainly to help answer the similar questions in PM's that I get (not that I have a problem with them). When my schedule lightens up a bit I may do so.



When I was 250-260lbs and very lean, I was eating about 5-6 times per day. I simply couldn't fit all of the calories I needed in 3-4 meals. I hesitated to go above 6 because the body has a feeding cycle, that should ideally be completed before another meal. This is on average 3-5 hours, based on the hormonal responses to food (insulin then GH/Glucagon, etc). Things change a bit when taking some insulin (which I did here and there at that high LBM), but I still ensured that there was enough time between meals to let my postprandial BG go down and stay down for a bit before eating again.

I found that with 6+ meals, for me, my BG numbers stayed elevated between meals, which over time can compound into insulin resistance. Eating that frequently isn't really metabolically healthy because of that reason. We have feeding/fasting cycles in response to a meal.

Now, you are quite heavy, and if most of that is LBM, then you very well may not be "unhealthy" by eating so often. If you are eating to your appetite, and you are lean and otherwise healthy, then I don't see how it can be firmly considered unhealthy in your situation. When <250lb or even <200lb guys are eating 6-8 times per day, I can say with confidence they are probably in most cases doing more harm than good.

If I were you, I'd check your fasting am BG, and your postprandial BG at 30 mins, 1 hour, 2 hours and 3 hours after a meal (if you do ever go 3 hours between meals, that is).

^^In the avi I'm about 225lbs^^ - my current weight.

Thanks for the explanation, I eat around every two hours, including a 3 am meal (protein powder). I am pretty lean for my size, and I dont like to force feed. Although I have done it from time to time to make sure I get enough cals in.
Ill look into checking the BG in between meals, curious to see what it is, I get hungry easily, and have always had a big appetite, even as a kid.

 

[tr]

I have found through personal experience, and there is some research and anecdote to support, that between 1-2g protein/lb LBM and between 1-3+g carbs/lb LBM, with enough fats (50-75g) has been about ideal for me. I let multiple things dictate how I adjust within those ranges, and they are not strict ranges unless dieting down in a strict calculated fashion.

For instance:

If my training intensity is high, I'll notice my body craves more protein and some added carbs to recover. My appetite increases and I feed it accordingly.

-On AAS, I can handle more protein and my appetite will justify it.

-On AAS + GH I can handle more carbs + protein + fat (I barely add much though) and my appetite is up to justify that. This is where I'm at the 1.5-1.75g/lb LBM protein and carbs for a ballpark average.

-On AAS + GH + Slin I need closer to 2g/lb LBM+ of protein/carbs to satisfy my appetite.

Here is why focusing on creating the appetite is a much better idea than force feeding:

Think of when babies are growing, or adolescents during puberty. Big appetites. Why - because their bodies are pumping out GH (younger children) and androgens (puberty), which cause metabolic changes in the body. Those changes are processes, and those processes require energy and raw material. The body is smart, so it tells us we're hungry. If we feed it well, it grows well. As bodybuilders, we have a very good (or should have at least) idea of the type of nutrition that works well for us both in general, and for ourselves individually.

Force feeding for the sake of growing has only made me and anyone I know fat..even if it's all "clean," though less so of course than if I ate "dirty."


**sorry If my writing is crappy - long, exhausting day**



Thanks! 3-4 meals has proven ideal for me. I've eaten up to 5 or 6 when I was at a very high LBM, but that's mainly because I needed many more calories and 3-4 meals would create meals that are simply too big on most occasions.



Was thinking about that, mainly to help answer the similar questions in PM's that I get (not that I have a problem with them). When my schedule lightens up a bit I may do so.



When I was 250-260lbs and very lean, I was eating about 5-6 times per day. I simply couldn't fit all of the calories I needed in 3-4 meals. I hesitated to go above 6 because the body has a feeding cycle, that should ideally be completed before another meal. This is on average 3-5 hours, based on the hormonal responses to food (insulin then GH/Glucagon, etc). Things change a bit when taking some insulin (which I did here and there at that high LBM), but I still ensured that there was enough time between meals to let my postprandial BG go down and stay down for a bit before eating again.

I found that with 6+ meals, for me, my BG numbers stayed elevated between meals, which over time can compound into insulin resistance. Eating that frequently isn't really metabolically healthy because of that reason. We have feeding/fasting cycles in response to a meal.

Now, you are quite heavy, and if most of that is LBM, then you very well may not be "unhealthy" by eating so often. If you are eating to your appetite, and you are lean and otherwise healthy, then I don't see how it can be firmly considered unhealthy in your situation. When <250lb or even <200lb guys are eating 6-8 times per day, I can say with confidence they are probably in most cases doing more harm than good.

If I were you, I'd check your fasting am BG, and your postprandial BG at 30 mins, 1 hour, 2 hours and 3 hours after a meal (if you do ever go 3 hours between meals, that is).

^^In the avi I'm about 225lbs^^ - my current weight.

Thanks, Adonis! Lots of truth here.
I've seen lots of examples even here when guy try to compensate drug usage with shitload of food and they only get fat at the end or the opposite - massive drugs abuse with lack of food "to grow fast very big and stay very lean" and they are just staying were they started. Phil talked about this lately too - on more hormones you need more food and vice versa.

Meal frequency...when I read this now I just wish there were a guy like you on this baord 5-6 years earlier lol almost 10 years I ate, I get my 6 meals no matter what I have had to hit 6 meals, because everyone was doing this, was I on aas/hgh or off cycle I've had to eat that 6 meals. When on lots of drugs it was easy because I was starving most of the time I even ate more, but when cruising/off or even lower dosage I was always pushing myself to do so Iwas gassy, bloated, tired etc - my body was forcing to process all that unecesarry nutrients and only very little part of it was used, most were pissed or shit1ed and when started ittermitent fasting I have found that due to fasting, less meals, more time between my meals, better nutrient timing, inceased insulin sensitivity, hunger etc my body processes food a lot better, 3-4 meals was ideal for me - the bloat has gone, I've more energy, no tiredness etc I'm eating 3-4 meals up to this day but I don't starve myself for 16 hours anymore and found this works even better when maintaining muscle or even adding few lbs and would back to 6 meals only if I would be on few grams plus anabolics, hgh+hgh peptides and maybe insulin and would need to eat 5000+ calories (well most of the guys here are on high dosage with hgh year round so I guess they need to eat more frequantly lol)

 

[asteelz]

best way for me is to start bulking really lean, use test deca for bulking and accept the water gain. water isnt fat altho they can be confused as both blur lines.

 

[Adonis89]

Thanks for the explanation, I eat around every two hours, including a 3 am meal (protein powder). I am pretty lean for my size, and I dont like to force feed. Although I have done it from time to time to make sure I get enough cals in.
Ill look into checking the BG in between meals, curious to see what it is, I get hungry easily, and have always had a big appetite, even as a kid.

No problem. I think the BG testing could help give you a piece of mind. If you're lean then you likely assume you're not having insulin sensitivity issues (unless you're lean because you use a lot of GH - which in and of itself causes IR).

best way for me is to start bulking really lean, use test deca for bulking and accept the water gain. water isnt fat altho they can be confused as both blur lines.

I always liked primo better than deca! I'm probably the biggest primo advocate on this board it seems. lol.

Thanks, Adonis! Lots of truth here.
I've seen lots of examples even here when guy try to compensate drug usage with shitload of food and they only get fat at the end or the opposite - massive drugs abuse with lack of food "to grow fast very big and stay very lean" and they are just staying were they started. Phil talked about this lately too - on more hormones you need more food and vice versa.

Meal frequency...when I read this now I just wish there were a guy like you on this baord 5-6 years earlier lol almost 10 years I ate, I get my 6 meals no matter what I have had to hit 6 meals, because everyone was doing this, was I on aas/hgh or off cycle I've had to eat that 6 meals. When on lots of drugs it was easy because I was starving most of the time I even ate more, but when cruising/off or even lower dosage I was always pushing myself to do so Iwas gassy, bloated, tired etc - my body was forcing to process all that unecesarry nutrients and only very little part of it was used, most were pissed or shit1ed and when started ittermitent fasting I have found that due to fasting, less meals, more time between my meals, better nutrient timing, inceased insulin sensitivity, hunger etc my body processes food a lot better, 3-4 meals was ideal for me - the bloat has gone, I've more energy, no tiredness etc I'm eating 3-4 meals up to this day but I don't starve myself for 16 hours anymore and found this works even better when maintaining muscle or even adding few lbs and would back to 6 meals only if I would be on few grams plus anabolics, hgh+hgh peptides and maybe insulin and would need to eat 5000+ calories (well most of the guys here are on high dosage with hgh year round so I guess they need to eat more frequantly lol)

Exactly. Phil advocates the same thing from what I've seen. I think most guys who've had enough experience and built a physique that most guys on here desire find this out - there needs to be a balance between food and hormones, but let the hormones create the appetite for growth. They are after-all the signals that begin the processes of muscle growth. The downstream metabolic cascade as a result of this (in healthy people with good metabolisms) should cause adequate hunger.


I'm glad that you had the experience of trying different meal frequencies to see what I'm talking about. without allowing proper feeding/fasting cycles, the digestive system can't detox and prime for assimilation as easily. Eating constantly and pushing food in will just bog down your system. Unless of course you need to eat this often due to hunger and resulting need for calories caused by super high metabolism and/or bodybuilding drugs.