Compounds w/ The Least Impact on Heart Rate/Cardiovascular Output

[marssel]

BTW, one group of athletes that used to really love Winstrol were figure skaters, lol.

Yea I know skaters, runners, and cyclists buy a lot of winny and have for decades that much I do know. Personally I think primo is better here especially for sprinting but of course once you’re not trying to win shows or still be a monster, I think we should all get back to running for several reasons but I also like running.

 

[goback2013]

Yea I know skaters, runners, and cyclists buy a lot of winny and have for decades that much I do know. Personally I think primo is better here especially for sprinting but of course once you’re not trying to win shows or still be a monster, I think we should all get back to running for several reasons but I also like running.

I love to run. Love my physique as a result

 

[Cerberus777]

Oh not different at all really; doses, timing and applications change but that's it. I know atleast 1 endurance guy who only runs test, 500mg a week - problem is he started this "cycle" in 2007 and hasn't stopped since. Was just curious about the EPO as no-one I know uses it (triathletes, cross country and track & field circles). Its just not readily available here in the UK, or atleast not where I am in the UK!

Blood doping (transfusionof own red blood cells type) is used with a couple pros I know where testing is likely.

 

[Cerberus777]

He does triathlon (mostly Olympic distance but has done a few ironman and occasionally does short-course/sprint distance) and half-M runs. Not sure on weight but I'd guess 75kg-ish as a ballpark. I think in part its a throwback to the early-00s philosophy of 500mg being the minimum effective dose

That being said as well all know weight is largely determined by energy balance - even on 500mg test if you "out run" your diet youre not gonna get massive growth - just enhanced recovery, increased strength & endurance etc.

I know one guy who is so lean that runs 500mg test and burns so many calories. The rest run 100-300mg with an anabolic.

 

[Cerberus777]

@PMCCHRIS I'm very interested in your experience with DHB and endurance. I still love bodybuilding but I don't want to get heavier and slowed down.

 

[Performance Based]

@PMCCHRIS I'm very interested in your experience with DHB and endurance. I still love bodybuilding but I don't want to get heavier and slowed down.

Worth starting a log over mate?

On week 4 of EPO and 1 of DHB at the moment -

 

[The Runner]

Worth starting a log over mate?

On week 4 of EPO and 1 of DHB at the moment -

As a runner, I'd love to see a log. On an epo cycle myself for the first time.

 

[Cerberus777]

Worth starting a log over mate?

On week 4 of EPO and 1 of DHB at the moment -

I think so. There's plenty of crossover guys that like to keep their muscles and want endurance. EQ gives me anxiety after a while. Primo doesn't. If DHB is in-between I'd be interested.

 

[marssel]

I love to run. Love my physique as a result

Yea when I was still active duty I loved running now that I’m at the end of my SHW/HW career I’m brining it back for health and fun it’s a different type of challenge banging out miles on a hot day.

 

[Performance Based]

As a runner, I'd love to see a log. On an epo cycle myself for the first time.

What protocol are you running mate?

I did 3,000iu 3x per week - week 1-2. Now at 1,500iu 3x per week.

 

[Performance Based]

Log is up you animals

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/16-weeks-human-performance-optimization-200-test-400-eq-200-dhb-epo-gh-igf.172122/

 

[alfresco]

I would ask what level of cardiovascular output do you train for?

I sit between 212 and 217 and 5'11 and 10-12%. Without EPO I can do a timed mile in 5:50-6:00 and it absolutely crushes me - but possible. While utilizing EPO (and let me preface this is my first run with it) I can do the same event in a 5:45 at around 85% effort.

For long slow distance events it holds no weight - no change in overall performance. IE I hop into a weekend marathon, my time was status quo. Thus far it really seems to shine when performing tasks requiring multiple energy sources and not simply ATP driven. Almost like I can process lactate much quicker.

With a high hematocrit - a shift in your training I imagine you could progress very very rapidly?

Regular, average, 15 mile hikes, some at ‘altitude’ and regular, average, 60 mile road biking. Not both in the same week but when my hematocrit was up there these activities were no harder or easier than when my hematocrit is where it is now, below 50.

Maybe my hematocrit was not high enough to reap the benefits, I don’t know. Just saying I never noticed a difference that I could attribute to an elevated hematocrit.

This is about as scientific as I can get.

 

[The Runner]

What protocol are you running mate?

I did 3,000iu 3x per week - week 1-2. Now at 1,500iu 3x per week.

Doing 5k per week, for 6 weeks. So far, 2 weeks in. Waiting on bloodwork now.

 

[Performance Based]

Regular, average, 15 mile hikes, some at ‘altitude’ and regular, average, 60 mile road biking. Not both in the same week but when my hematocrit was up there these activities were no harder or easier than when my hematocrit is where it is now, below 50.

Maybe my hematocrit was not high enough to reap the benefits, I don’t know. Just saying I never noticed a difference that I could attribute to an elevated hematocrit.

This is about as scientific as I can get.

Oh hell yea! If you get it up higher I do have a favor to ask - do some lactate / tempo workouts. For me so far that seems to be the biggest factor.

I did a LSD run on Saturday of last week (20 mile) and my time was no different than normal. Sprints though…. I’m fast as fuck right now!

 

[Performance Based]

Doing 5k per week, for 6 weeks. So far, 2 weeks in. Waiting on bloodwork now.

Do you mind keeping me updated mate? Do you have a baseline?

 

[The Runner]

Do you mind keeping me updated mate? Do you have a baseline?

Last bloods were 3 months ago, crit of 44. Based on my bloods from 3 months before that, positive my crit before epo was 44 to 45. Very curious to see where I am now. I'll let you know as soon as I get results.

 

[alfresco]

Oh hell yea! If you get it up higher I do have a favor to ask - do some lactate / tempo workouts. For me so far that seems to be the biggest factor.

I did a LSD run on Saturday of last week (20 mile) and my time was no different than normal. Sprints though…. I’m fast as fuck right now!

Lactate. Never thought of that.

And I couldn’t run 20 miles if you put a gun to my head, we’ll . . . maybe.

Design me a workout if you like. Keep in mind my hematocrit is in normal range now so I am not sure what it would prove as we have no way to compare. Just don’t have me run (yuck) or bike (gone). I can walk though and tear up the gym. Maybe a stationary bike but still it’s a mute point now unless I let my hematocrit get back up there.

 

[Performance Based]

Lactate. Never thought of that.

And I couldn’t run 20 miles if you put a gun to my head, we’ll . . . maybe.

Design me a workout if you like. Keep in mind my hematocrit is in normal range now so I am not sure what it would prove as we have no way to compare. Just don’t have me run (yuck) or bike (gone). I can walk though and tear up the gym. Maybe a stationary bike but still it’s a mute point now unless I let my hematocrit get back up there.

You swim much? Can def push the lactate easily there man. Can send you some stuff if you need it.

Easey peasey japonesey

 

[alfresco]

You swim much? Can def push the lactate easily there man. Can send you some stuff if you need it.

Easey peasey japonesey

Can't stand swimming pools so I used to open water swim,
only a couple of miles, but they have not put up the dam
in a few summers (we seem to be in a perpetual drought
out here in the West) so I am out of shape for that. I do
way less cardio than I used to.

The only cardio I do now is an hour or two of walking on the
days I don't do weights . . . or in the case of tomorrow I will
do both. Other times, all day long.

Send me what ya got, I am interested in just about everything.

 

[Cerberus777]

Regular, average, 15 mile hikes, some at ‘altitude’ and regular, average, 60 mile road biking. Not both in the same week but when my hematocrit was up there these activities were no harder or easier than when my hematocrit is where it is now, below 50.

Maybe my hematocrit was not high enough to reap the benefits, I don’t know. Just saying I never noticed a difference that I could attribute to an elevated hematocrit.

This is about as scientific as I can get.

I find you don't notice much of the benefits of higher RBC in steady state cardio. Its not till you're doing higher threshold cardio. HIIT or hard,long, steep hill climbs on the bike.