Do you think that eating clean is stopping you?

[Tomgrass]

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/genetic-gift.176131/#post-3229768
First lets start from this topic and transformation of a guy. He got fat and just because he was on a chubbier side his leverages became better, once his leverages was better his strenght was better his power created better hypertrophy. It is like close circle where one thing comes from the other.
But truth is i said he was fat but really was he?? He was far from it - my fat mean fat as for bodybuilding standards where we are compete and we know we have 16 weeks to go to stage weight so we cant be very far in terms of bodyfat otherwise the show will never happen. But this guy? He did not give a fuck he was eating like he knew that big amount of food are necessary to get where he needs to be. I remember watching a lot strongmen when Mariusz Pudzianowski was competing as I am from Poland and those guys diets were thousands of calories. Somebody will say - but they need so many calories cause they are huge…sure but how did they get there??? Well for sure not by adding 5grams of coconut oil to their rice.
I remember Doggcrapp post called I love it where he was saying that the best way but it will not look pretty is just to eat shit ton of food if you wanna be moving class year after year. Not in 10 years from heavy to superheavy and you can do it two ways drug yourself to the gills or stuffed yourself with food. Will you get fat ? Sure but gains will come that is for sure. I remember that the only time when i was close to 285 lbs is when I was just eating whatever I want. And exactly it was not pretty i felt heavy as fuck but job was done. Since I incorporated eating clean I was never able to do such a jump and accumulate so much tissue. Your opinion guys?

 

[Flex500]

I think you make some valid points here. I trained at the same gym as JM Blakely and his philosophy was to not leave any doubt. Meaning absolutely eat enough where there is no doubt you have covered your bases and save the fat loss for a fat loss phase. I was literally eating snickers DURING my workouts and made it to a lovely 272 at 5'7"...I was quite fat...but I also put on a lot of muscle. I ended up competing at 210-215. It certainly wasn't healthy, of course.

I honestly go both ways on this because I do agree with you counting it to the gnats ass and adding 10 calories to 4 meals is just nutty to me and always has been. I also think I would have been better served by applying the happy medium.

For example, if I needed 2,800 calories to keep my weight the same, why didn't I just eat 3,500-4,000? Why not do that with all around healthier food than the extreme of what I did...mega bulk on 5,000+ for 60-90 days...cut...mega bulk...cut. Donuts, mcondalds, whatever I could put down I did. What I did was pretty extreme and I don't think the right path. I believe a decent calorie surplus like 500-1,000 a day would cover your bases, be better for digestion and overall health, etc. and I think I would have landed at the same end point...or better.

Of course, a 500-1,000 calorie surplus would be considered extreme to some but I was always on like 1,500+ surpluses when I was trying to gain weight.

 

[Flex500]

For entertainment...here is JM's famous article:

https://www.stronger247.com/topic/12364/jm-blakely-bulking-guide/

The above is from a dead forum posted a decade ago but mods can delete if I'm breaking rules

 

[Big Dave Smith]

You’re confusing 2 things.

Eating clean vs getting a little fluffy to gain muscle.

You can eat better quality food and get fluffy.
You can eat a little junky and still get lean.

The issues arise from cardiovascular stress, insulin resistance, and digestive hindrances.

If you use a looser approach to eating in order for you to gain size, the cumulative damage shows itself later down the line.

A 300lb bodybuilder with borderline a1c, high blood sugar, low HDL, elevated homocysteine, and an aggressively high diet with unnecessarily processed foods and oxidized fats is on the fast track to heart disease. You can’t just take some berberine and citrus bergamot and hood to come out clean on the other side.

 

[blackjack]

You’re confusing 2 things.

Eating clean vs getting a little fluffy to gain muscle.

You can eat better quality food and get fluffy.
You can eat a little junky and still get lean.

The issues arise from cardiovascular stress, insulin resistance, and digestive hindrances.

If you use a looser approach to eating in order for you to gain size, the cumulative damage shows itself later down the line.

A 300lb bodybuilder with borderline a1c, high blood sugar, low HDL, elevated homocysteine, and an aggressively high diet with unnecessarily processed foods and oxidized fats is on the fast track to heart disease. You can’t just take some berberine and citrus bergamot and hood to come out clean on the other side.

 

[b-boy]

You’re confusing 2 things.

Eating clean vs getting a little fluffy to gain muscle.

You can eat better quality food and get fluffy.
You can eat a little junky and still get lean.

The issues arise from cardiovascular stress, insulin resistance, and digestive hindrances.

If you use a looser approach to eating in order for you to gain size, the cumulative damage shows itself later down the line.

A 300lb bodybuilder with borderline a1c, high blood sugar, low HDL, elevated homocysteine, and an aggressively high diet with unnecessarily processed foods and oxidized fats is on the fast track to heart disease. You can’t just take some berberine and citrus bergamot and hood to come out clean on the other side.

THANK YOU!!! ^^^^

you just saved me a whole lot of typing and probably rambling some what, you said it BEAUTIFULLY

 

[TheRoid]

Eating to gain serious size is a full time job. Eating a shitload of clean and healthy food (loaded with micronutrients, fibers, prebiotics, fermented foods, fresh veggies , grass fed beef, fish, berries, no trans-fats, fuctose syrup and hyper-processed foods) is a hell of a commitment. And it's expensive. In the long term, this huge effort/investment is well worth it.
The whole machinery keeps on working WAY more efficiently.
Getting ill won't take you far down the road.

 

[qbkilla]

You’re confusing 2 things.

Eating clean vs getting a little fluffy to gain muscle.

You can eat better quality food and get fluffy.
You can eat a little junky and still get lean.

The issues arise from cardiovascular stress, insulin resistance, and digestive hindrances.

If you use a looser approach to eating in order for you to gain size, the cumulative damage shows itself later down the line.

A 300lb bodybuilder with borderline a1c, high blood sugar, low HDL, elevated homocysteine, and an aggressively high diet with unnecessarily processed foods and oxidized fats is on the fast track to heart disease. You can’t just take some berberine and citrus bergamot and hood to come out clean on the other side.

Agree with this. Someone may gain size faster by eating so much they put on fat, but I don't think it's a good practice for most for the above mentioned reasons. If we look at the original guy in the video on that thread, I'd assume he never added all the excess fat and is probably healthier than the second guy. I do that that people who try to stay lean year round are limiting themselves. Those with great genetics can probably grow lean better than those who don't have them. Then you have many that bulk but never truly lean down and stay "bulking"

 

[Virtuous]

I think you hit the nail on the head in the sense that a lot of dudes have an aversion to getting fluffy, so they self-limit their growth potential.

To the other points made in the thread, it’s not necessarily a binary choice between clean and dirty calories, but rather a dichotomy to be managed between staying within striking distance of stage conditioning vs allowing more fat buffer room to enhance off-season gains.

To be honest, my appetite is wild, and I’m an excellent chef. I can make “clean” food taste mind blowing, and pound down tons of cals. Eating 4,000/day when I’m leaning up for a meet is hard for me. I can do 5,000+ easy. I LOVE going to bed with a full belly lol.

I think a broader problem too is that a lot of dudes in this game equate clean food to boring, bland food.

Baked chicken and steamed rice sucks.

I can nail those same macros with grilled shrimp and a rice/grilled pineapple medley.

One is boring and dry, the other I have to stop myself from grabbing 3rds.

 

[Tomgrass]

I think you hit the nail on the head in the sense that a lot of dudes have an aversion to getting fluffy, so they self-limit their growth potential.

To the other points made in the thread, it’s not necessarily a binary choice between clean and dirty calories, but rather a dichotomy to be managed between staying within striking distance of stage conditioning vs allowing more fat buffer room to enhance off-season gains.

To be honest, my appetite is wild, and I’m an excellent chef. I can make “clean” food taste mind blowing, and pound down tons of cals. Eating 4,000/day when I’m leaning up for a meet is hard for me. I can do 5,000+ easy. I LOVE going to bed with a full belly lol.

I think a broader problem too is that a lot of dudes in this game equate clean food to boring, bland food.

Baked chicken and steamed rice sucks.

I can nail those same macros with grilled shrimp and a rice/grilled pineapple medley.

One is boring and dry, the other I have to stop myself from grabbing 3rds.

That was my intention of my post - you got it right , whole this idea of chicken and broccoli versus somebody like Swiper , some good comfort food mixed with some extra dense calories here and there. I think a lot of guys regarding how they see themselfes are having eating disorder literally are afraid of eating anything else, and I get it if you pay your bills- of course you should exceed in your work. Thats a proper work ethic which should be applied to any position you hold but so many regular gym rats are scared having piece of cake on sunday dinner. I am
a firm beliver that so many guys would be progressing so much better if they would swap chicken rice only to mamma food healthy home made cook dinners and once in a while order sourdough italian pizza with leaner add ons like vegies and ham. So many people simply undereat due to being active , overtraining , fast metabolism drugs like tren or combinations of above.

 

[Virtuous]

That was my intention of my post - you got it right , whole this idea of chicken and broccoli versus somebody like Swiper , some good comfort food mixed with some extra dense calories here and there. I think a lot of guys regarding how they see themselfes are having eating disorder literally are afraid of eating anything else, and I get it if you pay your bills- of course you should exceed in your work. Thats a proper work ethic which should be applied to any position you hold but so many regular gym rats are scared having piece of cake on sunday dinner. I am
a firm beliver that so many guys would be progressing so much better if they would swap chicken rice only to mamma food healthy home made cook dinners and once in a while order sourdough italian pizza with leaner add ons like vegies and ham. So many people simply undereat due to being active , overtraining , fast metabolism drugs like tren or combinations of above.

Agree entirely.

I travel a lot for work. Typically I’ll hit the gym early, then pound ~150g of protein via shakes and quest chips. Usually around 800-900 kcal. Doesn’t get me too full or bloated, and then I can eat whatever everyone else is having for breakfast/lunch/dinner - hit my macros and calories, and I might have an omelette, a fat pastrami sandwhich, and steak and potatoes for dinner with a glass of wine.

You can hit your nutrition goals with a bit of creativity if you want to be a bit elastic with your day. I can’t fathom bringing meal preps to a client-facing dinner lmao.

 

[luki7788]

That was my intention of my post - you got it right , whole this idea of chicken and broccoli versus somebody like Swiper , some good comfort food mixed with some extra dense calories here and there. I think a lot of guys regarding how they see themselfes are having eating disorder literally are afraid of eating anything else, and I get it if you pay your bills- of course you should exceed in your work. Thats a proper work ethic which should be applied to any position you hold but so many regular gym rats are scared having piece of cake on sunday dinner. I am
a firm beliver that so many guys would be progressing so much better if they would swap chicken rice only to mamma food healthy home made cook dinners and once in a while order sourdough italian pizza with leaner add ons like vegies and ham. So many people simply undereat due to being active , overtraining , fast metabolism drugs like tren or combinations of above.

that's why so few people who have mega-big muscles - because they eat mommy's dinners

this is not a concert of wishes - you give examples of genetic freaks who, no matter what they do, will still look good and a guy with average genetics must work like an ox and have a lot of sacrifices to be on a similar level as them

besides, not to mention that oldies have a bad effect on health and on top of that you want to add food loaded with simple sugars and trans fats that are pro-inflammatory and have a tragic effect on insulin sensitivity and no 1000mg of metformin will not eliminate their negative impact on these issues and health

so you want to be big eat a lot (a lot for a given person one needs 5000 kcal to grow the other 7500) and often if you eat one meal at mcdonalds once a week nothing will happen but it can't be your daily routine unless you are genetic you're a freak and you've got health in your ass

 

[buck]

Total calories being the same i think healthy calories lead to better gains. Healthy food can be consumed in high amount if one wants. I think getting some what fat can maybe work but the amount of muscle that one looses when dieting it all off can negate the gains they made.

 

[Flex500]

That was my intention of my post - you got it right , whole this idea of chicken and broccoli versus somebody like Swiper , some good comfort food mixed with some extra dense calories here and there. I think a lot of guys regarding how they see themselfes are having eating disorder literally are afraid of eating anything else, and I get it if you pay your bills- of course you should exceed in your work. Thats a proper work ethic which should be applied to any position you hold but so many regular gym rats are scared having piece of cake on sunday dinner. I am
a firm beliver that so many guys would be progressing so much better if they would swap chicken rice only to mamma food healthy home made cook dinners and once in a while order sourdough italian pizza with leaner add ons like vegies and ham. So many people simply undereat due to being active , overtraining , fast metabolism drugs like tren or combinations of above.

So my question would be (and probability to Luki’s point), are you suggesting to eat a little less clean but keep calories rqual?

Put better is the discussion:

Equal calories “healthy/clean” food vs a little bit of the dirtier variety? But calories are the same.

Or is it…

Eating less calories due to eating very clean vs eating dirtier to jack up the calories more easily?

If calories are equal I’d say definitely the cleaner variety will be better (we virtuous noted clean doesn’t have to be boring).

 

[b-boy]

#nutrientdensity

 

[gains4000]

that's why so few people who have mega-big muscles - because they eat mommy's dinners

this is not a concert of wishes - you give examples of genetic freaks who, no matter what they do, will still look good and a guy with average genetics must work like an ox and have a lot of sacrifices to be on a similar level as them

besides, not to mention that oldies have a bad effect on health and on top of that you want to add food loaded with simple sugars and trans fats that are pro-inflammatory and have a tragic effect on insulin sensitivity and no 1000mg of metformin will not eliminate their negative impact on these issues and health

so you want to be big eat a lot (a lot for a given person one needs 5000 kcal to grow the other 7500) and often if you eat one meal at mcdonalds once a week nothing will happen but it can't be your daily routine unless you are genetic you're a freak and you've got health in your ass

I guess we would have to put Juan under the “genetic freak” category. LOL.

 

[FrancisK]

Bigger doesn't always mean you look better and it sure as shit doesn't mean healthier...

 

[Tomgrass]

I was more kinda thinking fill up some calories with extra food when you so stuffed with clean calories that you see chicken and rice in your dreams

 

[b-boy]

I was more kinda thinking fill up some calories with extra food when you so stuffed with clean calories that you see chicken and rice in your dreams

Why force feed yourself.
Phil Hernon - eat only when hungry, if your not hungry figure out the reason ie... not training hard enough, too little or too much gear, toxicity, over training ect.
BEST THING I LEARNED ON THIS BOARD!

 

[3BILLS]

Agree entirely.

I travel a lot for work. Typically I’ll hit the gym early, then pound ~150g of protein via shakes and quest chips. Usually around 800-900 kcal. Doesn’t get me too full or bloated, and then I can eat whatever everyone else is having for breakfast/lunch/dinner - hit my macros and calories, and I might have an omelette, a fat pastrami sandwhich, and steak and potatoes for dinner with a glass of wine.

You can hit your nutrition goals with a bit of creativity if you want to be a bit elastic with your day. I can’t fathom bringing meal preps to a client-facing dinner lmao.

I do the same. This is good for guys like us who are more in maintenance mode but if you really want to strive to be the best this probably wont cut it