DOGGCRAPP

[lucian]

Dante,
does the DC training ever go to a high volume phase? i read a Dave Henry article and it seemed like he had DC principals but changed it a little.
or does it depend on if someone can recover from a higher volume?

Thanks

Lucian

 

[ScottMcD1]

Dante,
does the DC training ever go to a high volume phase? i read a Dave Henry article and it seemed like he had DC principals but changed it a little.
or does it depend on if someone can recover from a higher volume?

Thanks

Lucian

Hey Lucian obviously I'm not Dante but he might not get around to seeing this...


DC training doesn't really have a higher volume phase, advanced guys(which Dave certainly is lol) will incorporate an extra exercise for body parts they want to bring up and this is done in a straight set fashion starting about 30 reps and going down over time as the weight increases. So while a more mortal guys workout might look like this for the week...

RP= rest paused, SS=straight set

Monday
Incline Press 11-15RP
BTN Smith Press 15-20RP
Dips 15-20RP
Rack Chins 15-20RP
T Bar Row heavy 12SS and heavier 8SS
and of course all the stretches

Wednesday
Preacher Curl 15-20RP
Reverse Grip Cable Curl 12-20SS
Calves on the leg Press 10-12SS
Standing Leg Curl 15-25RP
Back Squat 6-10SS, 20 rep widowmaker attempt

Friday
Hammer Strength Flat Press 11-15RP
Dumbbell Overhead 15-25RP
Reverse Grip Smith Press 11-15RP
Reverse Grip Pulldown 15-20RP
Barbell Row 12SS 8SS


a guy on DH's level with let's say weak(ish) shoulders and back width might look like this


Monday
Preacher Curls 15-20RP
Reverse Grip Cable Curl 12-20SS
Rack Chins 15-20RP
T Bar Row 12SS 8SS
- Cybex Pullover with 2 second pause in stretch... 20-30WM(straight set)

Tuesday
Incline Press 11-15RP
BTN Smith Press 15-20RP
-Good Lateral Raise Machine 20-30WM
Dips 15-20RP

Thursday
Leg Press Calves 10-12SS
Standing Leg Curls 15-25RP
Back Squat 6-10SS 20 WM attempt

Friday
Cable Curls 15-25RP
Hammer Curl 12-20SS
Reverse Grip Pulldown 15-20RP
Barbell Row 12SS 8SS
-Cybex Pullover 20-30WM MUST MUST MUST beat last times attempt


and so on. You keep the same widow in every workout so you are pounding that key exercise every 5-6 days instead of 2-2.5 weeks we go between the rotated movements. The volume for the key bodypart has gone up while the volume per workout and frequency of body parts hit are slightly reduced to compensate.


As far as what Dave does personally, I think in his recent DVD he actually does 3 exercises for chest and I'd imagine... that's Dave and he's a mutant haha. Homon/Dr. Scott would be the man to really ask about this as they train together but as far as general DC I thought I'd try to give an explanation.

Ok note to self, don't pop 3 caps of TP's Burn and then come post on Promuscle... nobody is going to read a post this long haha.

 

[tkav1980]

Scott, lol i read it and thats going to help alot setting up the 3 way split for me.

 

[lucian]

cool thanks for the reply. i knew there was some sort of way to split the 4 day a week.

dusty if you are reading this....how did you change from dc to then new high volume and what was your split like in dc?

 

[troponin]

cool thanks for the reply. i knew there was some sort of way to split the 4 day a week.

dusty if you are reading this....how did you change from dc to then new high volume and what was your split like in dc?

I always felt like DC training was misinterpreted about its supposed lack of volume.
My leg workouts on DC training would go something like this:

Squats:
135x10
225x5
315x5
405x5
495x2
605x8 (main set)
545x12 (back off set)
405x20 (widowmaker)

quad stretch (at least twice as brutal as the actual sets)

Stiff leg deadlifts:
135x15
185x5
225x3
315x10 (main set)

Dumbell leg curls
50lb x20 (Dante once recommended these to bring up my hams)

Hamstring stretch (again, more painful than the actual lifting)


Now, that's only 3 working sets for quads (2 if you don't do a widowmaker or the back off set), and 2 working set for hams (1 without the extra specialty exercise).

However, if you count the warm ups, there's 13 sets...including 8 sets of squats.
Obviously you'll use less warm ups if your main set is with less weight, but I always looked at it as the natural progression of increasing strength would force more warm up sets to build up to that weight....which indirectly incorporated another method of adaptation....from the increased workload that the extra warm ups would give.


I don't know how Dante feels on this...and maybe he thinks I did too many warm ups, but none of them are particularly taxing and serve mostly to warm up my joints and get blood in the muscle. They don't cause any real level of fatigue or anything.

 

[diesel158]

Dante,
does the DC training ever go to a high volume phase? i read a Dave Henry article and it seemed like he had DC principals but changed it a little.
or does it depend on if someone can recover from a higher volume?

Thanks

Lucian

maybe it was during a cruise phase?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante,
does the DC training ever go to a high volume phase? i read a Dave Henry article and it seemed like he had DC principals but changed it a little.
or does it depend on if someone can recover from a higher volume?

Thanks

Lucian

It depends, did you read a Dave Henry article that was done by Muscletech? Because they just shove whatever they feel like in there. Ive seen nine million Dave Henry arm training articles disguised as a Muscletech advertisement over the years....(I just kind of roll my eyes because I know thats not what Dave does)

As far as how Dave really trains...its just like Homonuncleus (who I took thru the paces also) advises Dave..........
(still heavy weight, low working sets, beat the log book, progressive, and think up peculiar things to bring up weak spots/points.....Homonuncleus is very good at that approach as is Super D....

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

cool thanks for the reply. i knew there was some sort of way to split the 4 day a week.

dusty if you are reading this....how did you change from dc to then new high volume and what was your split like in dc?

I dont think Dusty is doing high volume. He does when he travels and does a video in an unfamiliar gym (which alot of guys I train do when traveling....cant really beat the logbook there)....IM pretty postive he is still on his regular 3 way DC split.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I always felt like DC training was misinterpreted about its supposed lack of volume.
My leg workouts on DC training would go something like this:

Squats:
135x10
225x5
315x5
405x5
495x2
605x8 (main set)
545x12 (back off set)
405x20 (widowmaker)

quad stretch (at least twice as brutal as the actual sets)

Stiff leg deadlifts:
135x15
185x5
225x3
315x10 (main set)

Dumbell leg curls
50lb x20 (Dante once recommended these to bring up my hams)

Hamstring stretch (again, more painful than the actual lifting)


Now, that's only 3 working sets for quads (2 if you don't do a widowmaker or the back off set), and 2 working set for hams (1 without the extra specialty exercise).

However, if you count the warm ups, there's 13 sets...including 8 sets of squats.
Obviously you'll use less warm ups if your main set is with less weight, but I always looked at it as the natural progression of increasing strength would force more warm up sets to build up to that weight....which indirectly incorporated another method of adaptation....from the increased workload that the extra warm ups would give.


I don't know how Dante feels on this...and maybe he thinks I did too many warm ups, but none of them are particularly taxing and serve mostly to warm up my joints and get blood in the muscle. They don't cause any real level of fatigue or anything.

Couldnt agree more. I just dont like to count warmup sets. Never saw the need to count a weight as a set that youve done 5000 times previously. I dont believe you can do too many warmup sets if you actually need to. I dont care if a guy needs 20 warmup sets.....its all about whatever he needs to feel comfortable and ready to hammer away at his logbook for his main worksets.

Ive said it before....Ive seen people like Chris Cormier claim 12 sets for chest

Incline
135x10 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
225x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
315x6 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
405x8 <--done many times while warming up to 455
455x6 <--work set

flat dumbells
100x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
120x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
140x6 <--done done many times while warming up to 160's
160x10 <--work set

pec deck
120x15 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
150x10 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
175x12 <--work set

Now is that really 12 sets? or is that 8 or 9 warmup sets that he has done so many times over the years to get to 3-4 actual work sets that are actually building the majority of muscle mass?

Thats workout is done once a week above.

-----

My really strong guys go in and do something like this

Incline
135x10 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
225x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
315x6 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
405x8 <--done many times while warming up to 455
455x13rp <--work set

flat dumbells
100x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
120x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
140x6 <--done done many times while warming up to 160's
160x16rp <--work set

and instead of doing chest once a week they train chest 2x every 9-10 days.

See I count only 2 worksets up above (the rest I see as warmup sets) and my guys will be training chest 3 times in the next 14 days while everyone else trains chest 2 times....

so the lines are blurred somewhat. Am I low volume, high volume? Heck if I know and I dont care either....its really if you think that 2 plates on each side of the legpress warmup set you just did for 12 reps counts.....(did it really put any muscle on your quads? If you feel it did count it if it pleases you to do so, if it didnt do jack (which is my opinion) dont count it when you are really counting your actual "hypertrophy sets" .....I just want you warmed up and ready when you need to beat the last few brutal sets of your logbook compared to the last time you did the leg press.

 

[Dusty Hanshaw]

dusty if you are reading this....how did you change from dc to then new high volume and what was your split like in dc?

Like Dante said I still do the traditional 3 way split. I have been off DC for the last week since I lost my training partner but I think I have a new guy who is ready to start next week.

As far as this off week I have still been training heavy but I don't feel comfortable squating and reverse grip benching with my 100 lb wife spotting me. Honestly the workouts have been good but I don't like training with higher volume anymore. My mind is locked on DC for life.

 

[sarcoplasm]

Couldnt agree more. I just dont like to count warmup sets. Never saw the need to count a weight as a set that youve done 5000 times previously. I dont believe you can do too many warmup sets if you actually need to. I dont care if a guy needs 20 warmup sets.....its all about whatever he needs to feel comfortable and ready to hammer away at his logbook for his main worksets.

Ive said it before....Ive seen people like Chris Cormier claim 12 sets for chest

Incline
135x10 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
225x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
315x6 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
405x8 <--done many times while warming up to 455
455x6 <--work set

flat dumbells
100x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
120x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
140x6 <--done done many times while warming up to 160's
160x10 <--work set

pec deck
120x15 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
150x10 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
175x12 <--work set

Now is that really 12 sets? or is that 8 or 9 warmup sets that he has done so many times over the years to get to 3-4 actual work sets that are actually building the majority of muscle mass?

Thats workout is done once a week above.

-----

My really strong guys go in and do something like this

Incline
135x10 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
225x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
315x6 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
405x8 <--done many times while warming up to 455
455x13rp <--work set

flat dumbells
100x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
120x8 <--done so many times its ridiculous while warming up
140x6 <--done done many times while warming up to 160's
160x16rp <--work set

and instead of doing chest once a week they train chest 2x every 9-10 days.

See I count only 2 worksets up above (the rest I see as warmup sets) and my guys will be training chest 3 times in the next 14 days while everyone else trains chest 2 times....

so the lines are blurred somewhat. Am I low volume, high volume? Heck if I know and I dont care either....its really if you think that 2 plates on each side of the legpress warmup set you just did for 12 reps counts.....(did it really put any muscle on your quads? If you feel it did count it if it pleases you to do so, if it didnt do jack (which is my opinion) dont count it when you are really counting your actual "hypertrophy sets" .....I just want you warmed up and ready when you need to beat the last few brutal sets of your logbook compared to the last time you did the leg press.

Love that line of thinking and very much agree

 

[lucian]

thank you guys for the replies. it clears up a lot. the thing is....you read so much here and there, and some people adapt a "DC style training" thats not really DC at all. whats really cool is we can come here and get the answers from the real guys themselves.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

lucian

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

OffSubject: Dusty is 15 weeks out now....he likes moving heavy slag iron....I have no idea what the heck we are going to do about the obvious weakness of his rhomboids and lower lats.

 

[B~RAD]

Dante- Have you tried light dumbbell shrugs sitting backwards on a low incline bench? this should fix Dusty's problem

 

[totalrecomp]

Dante- Have you tried light dumbbell shrugs sitting backwards on a low incline bench? this should fix Dusty's problem

As long as he can rotate his shoulders on each rep this should work!

 

[sarcoplasm]

OffSubject: Dusty is 15 weeks out now....he likes moving heavy slag iron....I have no idea what the heck we are going to do about the obvious weakness of his rhomboids and lower lats.

Heh heh heh, very funny!

 

[lucian]

OffSubject: Dusty is 15 weeks out now....he likes moving heavy slag iron....I have no idea what the heck we are going to do about the obvious weakness of his rhomboids and lower lats.

15 weeks??!?!?!WTF!!!

 

[b-boy]

OffSubject: Dusty is 15 weeks out now....he likes moving heavy slag iron....I have no idea what the heck we are going to do about the obvious weakness of his rhomboids and lower lats.

NOW thats what im fucking talking about dayuuuuuummmmm!

the crazy thing is the first thing that popped out at me on that pic is his freaking rear ticep thickness

 

[betito]

OffSubject: Dusty is 15 weeks out now....he likes moving heavy slag iron....I have no idea what the heck we are going to do about the obvious weakness of his rhomboids and lower lats.

Let alone those horrible rear delts... he should strat doing reverse flies like a mad man