• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
worldofroids
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
advertise1
PHARMAHGH1
Bruce Labs Store banner
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
roids-210x65-48kb-1
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
gd
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
PM-Ace-Labs
advertise1
kinglab
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Effective progressive overload methods for advanced

Brock456

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
381
Just for Luki and Bleed....this is what i liked to do with guys once I caught them up to speed with overall size.

----------------------------------------------

I like

Sunday: chest (and you work one exercise on shoulders and/or triceps if those bodyparts are weak)

Monday: Biceps, Forearms, abs, rear delts, calves (and you work one exercise for back if there is something weak there..like lat width)

Tuesday: adductors. abductors, hams quads (doesnt have to be in that order) just listing bodyparts

Wenesday: off

Thursday: shoulders triceps (and you work one exercise for chest if your chest is a weak bodypart) abs

Friday: Back width and Back thickness, calves (and you work one exercise for biceps if thats a weak bodypart)

Saturday off.

In the above scenario if someone had weak arms (biceps and triceps sucked) his chest day would look like this

first chest exercise progressive warmups to all out set rest paused
second chest exercise progressive warmups to all out set rest paused
third chest exercise progressive warmups to all out straight set
Maybe forth chest exercise progressive warmups to all out straight set
then because he has weak triceps he would bomb away on a key tricep exercise..lets say assisted dips machine for 25 reps rest paused after warmups or whatever exercise he felt was key for himself

Monday would look like this because his back isnt weak
Biceps 2-3 exercises one or two restpaused in there with the other straight setted Forearms (some sort of reverse curl straight set for higher reps)
abs one exercise
rear delts one exercise rest paused
calves one exercise
no back because his back isnt weak....again order is picked by the person...just listing exercises

Tuesday: abductors adductors hams quads (2 exercises for hams one being rest paused), (2-3 exercises for quads)

Wenesday: off

Thursday: shoulders (2-3 exercises a couple of them rest paused) triceps (2-3 exercises a couple of them rest paused) no chest because chest isnt a weak bodypart for him, abs

Friday: Back width and Back thickness (4 exercises 2 for back width and 2 for back thickness...the back width ones are rest paused (and because his biceps are a weak bodypart he hits a key exercise that he feels strongly about at the end for biceps that is rest paused after warmups)...and calves one exercise

Saturday off.

short workouts..heavy slag iron for reps...bodyparts that are weak are hit 2x a week

Dante, I notice a lot of the stuff is rest pause sets.

do you prefer a specific time between sets? 15-30 seconds? A specific rep range to reach for maximum growth for all total rest pause sets?
 

heavyhitter

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
7,807
Dante, I notice a lot of the stuff is rest pause sets.

do you prefer a specific time between sets? 15-30 seconds? A specific rep range to reach for maximum growth for all total rest pause sets?
You take 15 very deep breaths for in between each part of the rest pause set. Comes out to around 30 seconds. And it depends on the chest. The total reps for a chest exercise might be 12-15, whereas biceps is more like 18-25. And this will be exercise dependent too. You can really push hard and heavy for lower reps on a hammer press, but this would be a recipe for disaster for skull crushers or preacher curls
 

Brock456

Active member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
381
You take 15 very deep breaths for in between each part of the rest pause set. Comes out to around 30 seconds. And it depends on the chest. The total reps for a chest exercise might be 12-15, whereas biceps is more like 18-25. And this will be exercise dependent too. You can really push hard and heavy for lower reps on a hammer press, but this would be a recipe for disaster for skull crushers or preacher curls

Thanks bro. Rest pause sets are somewhat new to me. From what I saw, the time in between sets (rest) varied 15-30 seconds, and rep ranges I saw anywhere from 15-30.

so let’s say incline db press rest pause set
Set 1 - 12
Set 2 - 10
Set 3 - 8

stop at set 3 Bc you got a total of 30 reps but if short, continue another rest pause until getting goal reps?
 

heavyhitter

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
7,807
Thanks bro. Rest pause sets are somewhat new to me. From what I saw, the time in between sets (rest) varied 15-30 seconds, and rep ranges I saw anywhere from 15-30.

so let’s say incline db press rest pause set
Set 1 - 12
Set 2 - 10
Set 3 - 8

stop at set 3 Bc you got a total of 30 reps but if short, continue another rest pause until getting goal reps?
So for a dumbell chest press id push more for like 10/5/3. Once your work up in enough weight that you’ll get down to like 6/3/1 you would switch out to a new exercise and progress on this one. But for a skullcrusher I would be doing like 14/7/4 and slowly working my way up in weight till my total reps came down and then move on to another exercise. And every single one of your 3 mini sets in your rest pause are to failure reusing to get every rep you can. And always only 3 mini sets
 

Matsuo Munefusa

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,014
You take 15 very deep breaths for in between each part of the rest pause set. Comes out to around 30 seconds. And it depends on the chest. The total reps for a chest exercise might be 12-15, whereas biceps is more like 18-25. And this will be exercise dependent too. You can really push hard and heavy for lower reps on a hammer press, but this would be a recipe for disaster for skull crushers or preacher curls
How are 15 deep breaths 30 seconds? I’d have to hyperventilate to get 15 breaths in 30 seconds.
 

heavyhitter

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
7,807
How are 15 deep breaths 30 seconds? I’d have to hyperventilate to get 15 breaths in 30 seconds.
it falls between 30-45 seconds for me depending on the exercise and how winded I am from it. They’re not supposed to be slow necessarily. You want big forceful inhales. You need as much oxygen as tou can get in a short period of time to be prepared for the next phase of the rest pause set
 

bbxtreme

Member
Newbies
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
33
I haven’t done gamma bomb but have run several of his programs. Creeping death, the gauntlet, Program 3, and the executioner. John is a genius and I loved all these programs. Even when not following a program is still mostly follow his set rep scheme and exercise selection ideas. I.e dumbell press first, then heavy reverse banded inclines for 4-6, then pre pump etc.
100% agreed. Until you work with him or do one of his programs you can’t appreciate the level of detail and science behind all of it.

As someone who always pushed to maximize professional overload myself it was not until I spoke with him took in his detail that I realized how many factors there were to adjust. I always believed that a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle.

We landed on my next phase/plan being a modified version of the Gamma Bomb.

But it all was around understanding not just progressional overload, but the almost more important things:

1. Nutrition: pre-workout meal macros, timing. Intra-workout carbs, EAA’s and insulin stabilization/utilization, and post workout meal/timing.
2. Workouts: training frequency based on body part week points, workout structure of exercises, rep ranges based on fiber type and goal, time between sets based on exercise purpose (pump, strength, stretch, etc) and pairing with techniques for maximizing time under tension.
3. Training to failure or perceived excursion- this may fall under workouts, but know for myself and see so many others miss this mark. There have been many threads on how guys don’t train as hard as they used to, but it goes without saying that many guys on here such as Luki train beyond belief. Sometimes like me to a fault. Knowing how far to push plays a huge role in our recovery. John was big on this and reminded me of it, as well Layne Norton did a good video of the science recently:

I would add to the list things such as monitoring sleep and HRT and track both daily to measure my recovery.
 

heavyhitter

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
7,807
100% agreed. Until you work with him or do one of his programs you can’t appreciate the level of detail and science behind all of it.

As someone who always pushed to maximize professional overload myself it was not until I spoke with him took in his detail that I realized how many factors there were to adjust. I always believed that a stronger muscle is a bigger muscle.

We landed on my next phase/plan being a modified version of the Gamma Bomb.

But it all was around understanding not just progressional overload, but the almost more important things:

1. Nutrition: pre-workout meal macros, timing. Intra-workout carbs, EAA’s and insulin stabilization/utilization, and post workout meal/timing.
2. Workouts: training frequency based on body part week points, workout structure of exercises, rep ranges based on fiber type and goal, time between sets based on exercise purpose (pump, strength, stretch, etc) and pairing with techniques for maximizing time under tension.
3. Training to failure or perceived excursion- this may fall under workouts, but know for myself and see so many others miss this mark. There have been many threads on how guys don’t train as hard as they used to, but it goes without saying that many guys on here such as Luki train beyond belief. Sometimes like me to a fault. Knowing how far to push plays a huge role in our recovery. John was big on this and reminded me of it, as well Layne Norton did a good video of the science recently:

I would add to the list things such as monitoring sleep and HRT and track both daily to measure my recovery.
Sleep for sure. If you’re muscular and ver 250 yoy almost assuredly need a cpap
 

bbxtreme

Member
Newbies
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
33
Sleep for sure. If you’re muscular and ver 250 yoy almost assuredly need a cpap
You’re right and have seen this in many.

I personally have never been big on tech such Apple watches or Fitbits, but recently started wearing the “Whoop” strap to track my sleep, recovery, and HRV. Can honestly say it it helps keep me on point with recovery and where/when to push and what to improve on to maximize recovery.

Most of us have no trouble pushing the limits on training beyond limits, but can easily miss or not take into account our recovery.

Had a seasoned pro tell me when I was younger- “it’s not about how hard your train, it’s about how hard (maximizing) your recovery.” Would venture to say along with myself that we all struggle with that as we love the process and training.
 

homonunculus

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
1,652
So for a dumbell chest press id push more for like 10/5/3. Once your work up in enough weight that you’ll get down to like 6/3/1 you would switch out to a new exercise and progress on this one. But for a skullcrusher I would be doing like 14/7/4 and slowly working my way up in weight till my total reps came down and then move on to another exercise. And every single one of your 3 mini sets in your rest pause are to failure reusing to get every rep you can. And always only 3 mini sets
Thanks bro. Rest pause sets are somewhat new to me. From what I saw, the time in between sets (rest) varied 15-30 seconds, and rep ranges I saw anywhere from 15-30.

so let’s say incline db press rest pause set
Set 1 - 12
Set 2 - 10
Set 3 - 8

stop at set 3 Bc you got a total of 30 reps but if short, continue another rest pause until getting goal reps?


With DC Rest pause sets, each segment (Set or mini-set) is taken to failure with a load such that your rep total falls within the range you've set out for yourself (e.g., 20-30 reps total for an DB pressing movement). You'd do the three sets to failure, and if reps total more than 30, the load goes up the next workout you're using that exercise: You don't do another set if you fall short of 30 reps, although that's a strategy that can be used for a cluster set, just not with the standard DC RP set. (John M. uses that strategy in his programs, though.) If you get to 30 reps total in haven't hit a failure point, then the last set is taken to failure (for the stimulus as well as to gauge the appropriate load for the next go 'round).

As far as rep ranges for DB's, going with a HIGHER number is gong to make sense (and likely never getting down to a total much below 15 reps), because the energy cost and danger (literally) in trying to hoist the DB's up for the 2nd a/o third part of the RP set is pretty high. (You can turn what would have been maybe 3 reps into a single plus a failed rep b/c it's such a PITA to get the DB's into place.) Someone who can press the 150's for 8 reps could easily put themselves in a precarious position trying to hoist them up for the 3rd segment of a DC RP set when already fatigued. When training alone, it's "dangerous" enough b/c that last set would be only a double, on top of a somewhat awkward deadlift (straddling a bench, for instance) to get the DB's into position.

You can remedy the above (although there's really no need to go so heavy with DB - progression is the name of the game here, and doing so in higher as well as lower rep ranges which could be done with those exercises that better lend themselves to this) with training partners to hand off the DB's, a DB stand or, my favorite, using DB Powerhooks (if you can find them) and/or connecting daisy chains (nylon climber's ropes) around the DB's so they're hanging at the bottom of the Range of motion for the exercise.

-S
 

Matsuo Munefusa

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
4,014
With DC Rest pause sets, each segment (Set or mini-set) is taken to failure with a load such that your rep total falls within the range you've set out for yourself (e.g., 20-30 reps total for an DB pressing movement). You'd do the three sets to failure, and if reps total more than 30, the load goes up the next workout you're using that exercise: You don't do another set if you fall short of 30 reps, although that's a strategy that can be used for a cluster set, just not with the standard DC RP set. (John M. uses that strategy in his programs, though.) If you get to 30 reps total in haven't hit a failure point, then the last set is taken to failure (for the stimulus as well as to gauge the appropriate load for the next go 'round).

As far as rep ranges for DB's, going with a HIGHER number is gong to make sense (and likely never getting down to a total much below 15 reps), because the energy cost and danger (literally) in trying to hoist the DB's up for the 2nd a/o third part of the RP set is pretty high. (You can turn what would have been maybe 3 reps into a single plus a failed rep b/c it's such a PITA to get the DB's into place.) Someone who can press the 150's for 8 reps could easily put themselves in a precarious position trying to hoist them up for the 3rd segment of a DC RP set when already fatigued. When training alone, it's "dangerous" enough b/c that last set would be only a double, on top of a somewhat awkward deadlift (straddling a bench, for instance) to get the DB's into position.

You can remedy the above (although there's really no need to go so heavy with DB - progression is the name of the game here, and doing so in higher as well as lower rep ranges which could be done with those exercises that better lend themselves to this) with training partners to hand off the DB's, a DB stand or, my favorite, using DB Powerhooks (if you can find them) and/or connecting daisy chains (nylon climber's ropes) around the DB's so they're hanging at the bottom of the Range of motion for the exercise.

-S
Thanks for this! Given the warning applied for increased injury...is a system like Luki mentioned preferable where we have a rep target total for 3 sets before we progress reps/weights. Similar to DC but instead of RP just sets with regular rest intervals. Assuming 3 sets with a target total you are going to make more reps vs DC RP...and there is less risk for injury...aren’t we to logically prefer Lukis system?
 

homonunculus

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
1,652
Thanks for this! Given the warning applied for increased injury...is a system like Luki mentioned preferable where we have a rep target total for 3 sets before we progress reps/weights. Similar to DC but instead of RP just sets with regular rest intervals. Assuming 3 sets with a target total you are going to make more reps vs DC RP...and there is less risk for injury...aren’t we to logically prefer Lukis system?
I looked through this thread and can't tell what Luki does as far as rest interval, i.e., I don't know what his system is. If you're just using a basic progressive overload regime of straight sets, with essentially full recovery between the sets, then that's the typical injury risk that most everyone is exposed to with traditional training doing DB presses.

If the rest interval is 30 seconds, using the same load, dipping into <4-5 reps / set, then yes, there's injury potential there b/c b/c you're trying to move around heavy ass dumbbells in a fatigued state. (Trust me, this is an issue with really strong guys, for sure.)

Injuries are not good, of course, but losing reps / training stimulus b/c you're hoisting heavy ass DB's into place isn't terribly sensible.

When unsure, avoid the injury. :)

-S
 

luki7788

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
1,053
I looked through this thread and can't tell what Luki does as far as rest interval, i.e., I don't know what his system is. If you're just using a basic progressive overload regime of straight sets, with essentially full recovery between the sets, then that's the typical injury risk that most everyone is exposed to with traditional training doing DB presses.

If the rest interval is 30 seconds, using the same load, dipping into <4-5 reps / set, then yes, there's injury potential there b/c b/c you're trying to move around heavy ass dumbbells in a fatigued state. (Trust me, this is an issue with really strong guys, for sure.)

Injuries are not good, of course, but losing reps / training stimulus b/c you're hoisting heavy ass DB's into place isn't terribly sensible.

When unsure, avoid the injury. :)

-S
English is not my first language so it can be hard to understand me but from what I can see my system is well understood only by @bbxtreme
and @Matsuo Munefusa

The point here is that I have to do, for example, 25 reps and 3 series for this (breaks between sets are traditional, i.e. depending on who likes 1.5-4 minutes) if made in a total of 3 sets of 25 or more repetitions, then in the next training we increase weight, if we do not stay on it until we reach the rep goal (15, 20, 30 or whatever amount you choose)
Honestly, I have trained similarly all my life + back off sets, sometimes dropsets. I built all my muscle mass without ever jumping to an absolute failure because I was always training without a partner and didn't have adequate protection, so I was doing it just like that.
 

qbkilla

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,863
when you guys calculate your total weekly volume, number of sets, for a body part..how many do you count 1 rest pause set for? I typically us 2. it is more than 1 straight set, but not quite as much volume IMO as 3 sets.
 

homonunculus

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
1,652
English is not my first language so it can be hard to understand me but from what I can see my system is well understood only by @bbxtreme
and @Matsuo Munefusa

The point here is that I have to do, for example, 25 reps and 3 series for this (breaks between sets are traditional, i.e. depending on who likes 1.5-4 minutes) if made in a total of 3 sets of 25 or more repetitions, then in the next training we increase weight, if we do not stay on it until we reach the rep goal (15, 20, 30 or whatever amount you choose)
Honestly, I have trained similarly all my life + back off sets, sometimes dropsets. I built all my muscle mass without ever jumping to an absolute failure because I was always training without a partner and didn't have adequate protection, so I was doing it just like that.

Sounds very traditional, understandable(!) and safe to me.

-S
 

luki7788

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
1,053
when you guys calculate your total weekly volume, number of sets, for a body part..how many do you count 1 rest pause set for? I typically us 2. it is more than 1 straight set, but not quite as much volume IMO as 3 sets.
to be honest i never counted the weekly training volume i am an old school guy and i never paid much attention to such details - less thinking less stress = better gains lol
 

qbkilla

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,863
to be honest i never counted the weekly training volume i am an old school guy and i never paid much attention to such details - less thinking less stress = better gains lol
This is true. I find it helpful if I switch my split up. Say I do a bro split but want to change to a pplppl. It helps to know how many sets I do for a part so I don't jack my volume up, overtrain, blame it on the split lol. So if I hit chest once a week for 8 sets, but want to hit chest twice in a new routine, I'll do 4 sets each day. Once I lay out my split then I just stick to it and train hard
 

xpoc

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Nov 19, 2016
Messages
625
I believe that I have really gone a long way with my potential and it is hard to further progress the load. It is certainly possible, but it becomes simply dangerous at some point when you do the weights that I managed to reach during training
A few videos to understand what it is about and that at such a moment it is difficult to further develop by increasing the load

Though I won't say I don't feel like doing these lifts bigger lol
holy shxt. you are moving loads i have only seen dusty and jordan peters touch. good lord man.
 

FranJ

Active member
Registered
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
203
I do train high volume... I have always been more Heavy Duty style guy, then I did 2 years of Meadows style training (high frequency, high intensity not very high volume just feeders sets) and now I've been 1 year training Oxygen style since I've some friends from Kuwait and Dubai training this way.

I only recommend this for advanced lifters that shouldn't worry in moving more weight (there is a point moving high poundages is an injury for sure) and they need just quality and growing by metabolic stress, nutrients and AAS.

I usually do like 40 sets for big muscle groups, with this system you go to failure by fatigue (lactid acid) so in the end you get some mechanical tension too, for example where I could do incline bench press 180kg for 6 reps in this training system I do 120kg for 10-12 reps, but you have more total volume, less central nervous system fatigue, recovery is simply GREAT, and pumps are unreal...

I've growth the most doing high volume and got no injuries in a year... you gotta need to eat a lot, I just competed with 600g net carbs in precontest, the lowest I went was 350-400g net carbs.

I also think this style of training gives you a different muscle look, more round, something you can see in Oxygen athletes. I'm not saying this is the best way to train, but it has worked on myself and I'll keep doing it this way.

It's curious some guys that come from training low volume high intensity and try the system cannot finish it, after all when you are in the 4th exercise and you have already worked no less than 8-15 reps with moderate weights (not so moderate if you are advanced, in the end they are good weights) and short rest periods between sets pump is so unreal u can't continue and you fail next set really fast...

Excuse my english!!
 

MasteroniPepperoni

Well-known member
Registered
Newbies
Joined
Aug 9, 2021
Messages
518
I do train high volume... I have always been more Heavy Duty style guy, then I did 2 years of Meadows style training (high frequency, high intensity not very high volume just feeders sets) and now I've been 1 year training Oxygen style since I've some friends from Kuwait and Dubai training this way.

I only recommend this for advanced lifters that shouldn't worry in moving more weight (there is a point moving high poundages is an injury for sure) and they need just quality and growing by metabolic stress, nutrients and AAS.

I usually do like 40 sets for big muscle groups, with this system you go to failure by fatigue (lactid acid) so in the end you get some mechanical tension too, for example where I could do incline bench press 180kg for 6 reps in this training system I do 120kg for 10-12 reps, but you have more total volume, less central nervous system fatigue, recovery is simply GREAT, and pumps are unreal...

I've growth the most doing high volume and got no injuries in a year... you gotta need to eat a lot, I just competed with 600g net carbs in precontest, the lowest I went was 350-400g net carbs.

I also think this style of training gives you a different muscle look, more round, something you can see in Oxygen athletes. I'm not saying this is the best way to train, but it has worked on myself and I'll keep doing it this way.

It's curious some guys that come from training low volume high intensity and try the system cannot finish it, after all when you are in the 4th exercise and you have already worked no less than 8-15 reps with moderate weights (not so moderate if you are advanced, in the end they are good weights) and short rest periods between sets pump is so unreal u can't continue and you fail next set really fast...

Excuse my english!!

Definitely not as advanced as you, but I've noticed similar. When I train with higher volume + intensity techniques , my physique has a better "quality" to it. I'll add in some heavy work too, but definitely noticed volume and sets of 8-15 to work best.

Btw, looking crazy in the avatar
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Total page views
514,912,500
Threads
126,554
Messages
2,483,184
Members
156,658
Latest member
[email protected]
Top