Effective progressive overload methods for advanced

[jaxino]

I have tried everything over the years. I am always detailed in my approach but I love simplicity in training. Sure you have to keep an eye on volume in order to recover effectively so I always keep an eye on working sets but in parts of the year anything goes and I do high volume and push my body to it's limits. I do love the typical loaded and back off set approach for most major lifts. That is usually in the 8-10 then 12-15 rep ranges but legs may be a little higher at times.

When you're as strong and experienced as Luki you can't always just go heavier so you have to think overload using a variety of other techniques (volume, rep ranges, rom, tut, rest periods etc). There is no real reason for this post because as you guys know we could talk about training for hours and there are so many possibilities but I will mention something because it's fresh in my mind as I just changed things.

I generally keep to the same split but I rotate things through the year due to various factors. An example recently I have been on DNP and my physical/mental energy in the gym was massively impacted so I got to the gym and figured I want to lower exercises (I often do many more) and keep things simple and just be able to focus on my working sets and stay put but at the same time I don't just want to lower volume/working sets but I also don't want to just do multiple similar working sets. Although I do love the traditional rest paused method of 3 sets using the same weight and resting a fixed time and going for a total of approx 25 reps total before moving up in weight next workout. However now I wanted to take some rest between sets but also work in different rep ranges so my last PUSH workout looked like...

Warm Up.
Standing DB Lateral Raises... 3 working sets (low, moderate and high reps).
Seated Barbell Shoulder Press... 3 working sets (low, moderate and high reps).
Pec Deck... 3 working sets (low, moderate and high reps).
Machine Press... 3 working sets (low, moderate and high reps).
Superset of Overhead Cable Extensions and Machine Dips... 3 working sets (low, moderate and high reps).

Now for some movements (especially machines) they are too light to do a low rep set so in that event I really slow down the reps (5 sec negatives for example) and may even do some paused reps and I even decreased the rest period between sets just so I could truly fail in the planned rep ranges. Nothing needs to be exact as long as I truly fail but I aimed to fail roughly in the 8-10, 12-15 and 20+ rep ranges. Now you could just stick to free weight (plate loaded) so this won't be an issue and you can go as heavy as possible for everything (an example for tri-ceps doing ez bar skullcrushers and weighted dips).

WOW.... I am literally training like that.... was thinking to change.... but it gave me the right feelings...

How are your PUSH and LEG day?

During push i tend to do 4 exercises for back and sometimes i think it's too much.... 2 horizontal 2 vertical movements.

 

[jaxino]

Nope, it's not the same. Shawn Rhoden prepped the Oxgen way with Psychofitness in 2018... a lot of isolation and angulation movements. It's not about 6 sets per exercise, maybe only 3-4 but a lot of exercises and different movements to stimulate every part of that muscle.

Example for chest:

Some weeks you do drop sets in atleast 4 exercises
Other weeks only lineal sets + some forced reps to get a few extra reps
Quick reps, constant tension, never straighen joints... but is not pumping with low weights as many of u think... doing 3-4 plates per side in almost all exercises is really hard...

Hammer strenght inclined chest press 15-12-12-10
Smith machine incline chest press 15-12-10-10
Flat hammer bench 15-12-12-10
Machine flyes 15-15-12-12
Machine chest press (seated) narrow grip 15-12-12-12
Dips machine 15-15-15-12
Cable crossover (2 positions)12 + 12

I didn't understand anything here.....

Seems like that you train everything like 3-1 Reps in reserve with a monster volume.
7 chest exercise 26 sets total

Can't imagine for legs what you will do.

I didn't understand at all how they train at Oxygen...

 

[TommyJ]

And by the way - someone has purchased access to the hypertrophy couch application? I wonder if there is enough information out there to spend the $ 150

I like joe and his methods but for me the app was not worth it. I’d rather spend the money on a john meadows program

 

[xpoc]

I didn't understand anything here.....

Seems like that you train everything like 3-1 Reps in reserve with a monster volume.
7 chest exercise 26 sets total

Can't imagine for legs what you will do.

I didn't understand at all how they train at Oxygen...

agree. i still have not figured out how the oxygen style is applied or the logic behind it. that said, IT FUCKING WORKS for these guys so i would love to know more about it. like i said earlier, best i can tell it is simply a shit ton of volume. essentially, i call these workouts the kitchen sink workout. throw everything but the kitchen sink in there and see what sticks. drop sets, straight sets, multiple exercises, multiple angles, multiple sets, lots of reps etc. this simply sounds like the "more is better" methodology but i would love to hear it explained from someone who knows the logic behind it.

 

[fastlife]

I love how you guys talk about this training that training blah blah blah . Back in the day it was shut up and lift big weights not all this over complicated training styles that everybody comes up with now in days . Shut the fuck in and lift heavy that’s it

 

[qbkilla]

agree. i still have not figured out how the oxygen style is applied or the logic behind it. that said, IT FUCKING WORKS for these guys so i would love to know more about it. like i said earlier, best i can tell it is simply a shit ton of volume. essentially, i call these workouts the kitchen sink workout. throw everything but the kitchen sink in there and see what sticks. drop sets, straight sets, multiple exercises, multiple angles, multiple sets, lots of reps etc. this simply sounds like the "more is better" methodology but i would love to hear it explained from someone who knows the logic behind it.

Never heard of it, who uses it? How do you know they wouldn't be the same size or bigger with moderate or low volume training? Or their size wasn't built with low volume and heavy weight then they want to switch to something different?

 

[xpoc]

Never heard of it, who uses it? How do you know they wouldn't be the same size or bigger with moderate or low volume training? Or their size wasn't built with low volume and heavy weight then they want to switch to something different?

If you go back on this thread you will see some posts about it. It is that gym in Dubai where all the middle eastern guys train at. I am trying to figure out the same things you are asking about.

 

[Type-IIx]

I love how you guys talk about this training that training blah blah blah . Back in the day it was shut up and lift big weights not all this over complicated training styles that everybody comes up with now in days . Shut the fuck in and lift heavy that’s it

That usually works well for the first 2 years, then you usually need to start considering different training methods to continue progressing ("beating the log book"). Or you just keep ramping up dose and never come off, that's the other alternative.

 

[Elvia1023]

If you go back on this thread you will see some posts about it. It is that gym in Dubai where all the middle eastern guys train at. I am trying to figure out the same things you are asking about.

There is nothing really to figure out. Guys sometimes overcomplicate the shit out of training. Most of them just go in the gym and do a shitload of volume and simply train brutally hard. There is often no special method or sequence and it's about hitting the muscle hard using a variety of different movements. The likes of Nathan Deasha trains the same way. He will literally go let's do 3 presses, 2 flyes and whatever else we feel like. Listen to your body and push it hard and try to hit the muscle from different angles. They may have it planned to do 5 movements but they do 7 instead. I have seen them do about 10 exercises for back and they just go until they feel they have done enough. They will often do about 5 different pressing movements and it's simply because they like them and the machines are in that order. There are no log books and it's about getting as strong as possible and hitting it hard.

I often train the same way but there is usually a reason why I pick a certain sequence of movements but at the end of the day it makes very little difference. Now sure I understand why people want to know the "secret" because they want to optimize things and it can be important to get the balance of volume and frequency correct but very often these guys have no real plan and it's just about training hard and heavy and trying to progress over time using the same machines/movements. I will say many of them do too much at times and because they simply try to lift as heavy as possible for every movement they always end up with shoulder (etc) issues because of the sheer amount of working sets for pressing (etc) movements. There is definitely a smarter way of doing things and I believe people should rotate training volume/frequency.

The secret for the guys at places like Oxygen is all they do is train, eat and take drugs and when they aren't doing those things they are often resting so it's like a bodybuilding camp. It's a combination of all elements being pushed to the extreme and not due to some magical training split.

 

[Elvia1023]

WOW.... I am literally training like that.... was thinking to change.... but it gave me the right feelings...

How are your PUSH and LEG day?

During push i tend to do 4 exercises for back and sometimes i think it's too much.... 2 horizontal 2 vertical movements.

I mainly just followed that approach when using DNP and experiencing mental/physical fatigue so I could still do P/P/L but I didn't need to be moving around constantly. I could also use the same method for all body parts and I could fit in multiple working sets at different rep ranges within a small time frame. I am still doing P/P/L but it's more standard. Well I state that but I try to fit in 1-2 heavy basic failure movements and 1-2 pump/metabolic movements for most body parts. I always try to get stronger over time in all rep ranges but often it's just about executing well and hitting it as hard as possible using different methods over time. I will start posting in my log more and I often write details on my training in there so feel free to check it out.

I should add on my PULL days I usually do about 7 movements and approx 10 working sets. I don't think that is too much for me as the back is large and I include rear delts and traps in those working sets. You have to be careful with PUSH and that's why I now mainly keep shoulders to a variety of lateral raises and I utilize an incline press variation to cover delts but merge into chest and then 1 more pressing movement for chest so 2 in total for the day unless I do close grip for tri-ceps (never heavy if I do that though).

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

Just have have to be creative .

Time under tension - If you usually go at a moderate pace on a given movement, slow it while trying to get the same amount of reps
On main movements , if you usually get 3x8 on squats, add in an extra set
For isolations , if you usually get 3x15 on flys in 3-4 minutes, try to get 3x15 in 2-3 minutes
Use microplates
Add more frequency in the week

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

Don't sleep on adding in some body weight movements either. Fixing weak links

 

[Tomgrass]

For me that was alwayd about simplicity 6 weeks 4-6 reps 6 weeks 10-12 reps and two weeks 15-20 reps and back again to 4-6 reps and so on

 

[juggy38]

I made good progress playing around with a Jordan peters bastardized plan last year.

Example:

Lying leg curl: ramp up to a failure at 7-8 reps. Rest. Drop some weight, hit a shortened DC set so I’d get like 12, (15 breaths) 6. Done

Leg press: ramp up to top 12-13 rep. Drop weight, hit a short DC set getting 19/9.

Hacks: ramp up to a top 10-12, rest. Load drop, hit 16/8.

Lunges: one set, 45lb DBs, till you fall over.

Seated leg curl: top set 8-9 reps. Rest, load drop, hit 15/7.

I track my top sets. The load drops just go by feel and effort.

2 on 1 off, push/legs/pull

 

[luki7788]

I made good progress playing around with a Jordan peters bastardized plan last year.

Example:

Lying leg curl: ramp up to a failure at 7-8 reps. Rest. Drop some weight, hit a shortened DC set so I’d get like 12, (15 breaths) 6. Done

Leg press: ramp up to top 12-13 rep. Drop weight, hit a short DC set getting 19/9.

Hacks: ramp up to a top 10-12, rest. Load drop, hit 16/8.

Lunges: one set, 45lb DBs, till you fall over.

Seated leg curl: top set 8-9 reps. Rest, load drop, hit 15/7.

I track my top sets. The load drops just go by feel and effort.

2 on 1 off, push/legs/pull

this is how I trained for years, even when JP was not known at all - the best method to build most of the muscle mass needed, but when you become extremely strong, e.g. you do hack SQ 300-340kg,SQ 220-260kg, legpress 500-600kg, bench 180-200kg it starts to do very dangerous and you start looking for other methods

 

[juggy38]

this is how I trained for years, even when JP was not known at all - the best method to build most of the muscle mass needed, but when you become extremely strong, e.g. you do hack SQ 300-340kg,SQ 220-260kg, legpress 500-600kg, bench 180-200kg it starts to do very dangerous and you start looking for other methods

Oh for sure. Dante tells all his big guys to not go ins 20 reps for any leg exercises.

And hell if you follow JP, he tears an adductor or quad like every few months.

 

[b-boy]

There is nothing really to figure out. Guys sometimes overcomplicate the shit out of training. Most of them just go in the gym and do a shitload of volume and simply train brutally hard. There is often no special method or sequence and it's about hitting the muscle hard using a variety of different movements. The likes of Nathan Deasha trains the same way. He will literally go let's do 3 presses, 2 flyes and whatever else we feel like. Listen to your body and push it hard and try to hit the muscle from different angles. They may have it planned to do 5 movements but they do 7 instead. I have seen them do about 10 exercises for back and they just go until they feel they have done enough. They will often do about 5 different pressing movements and it's simply because they like them and the machines are in that order. There are no log books and it's about getting as strong as possible and hitting it hard.

I often train the same way but there is usually a reason why I pick a certain sequence of movements but at the end of the day it makes very little difference. Now sure I understand why people want to know the "secret" because they want to optimize things and it can be important to get the balance of volume and frequency correct but very often these guys have no real plan and it's just about training hard and heavy and trying to progress over time using the same machines/movements. I will say many of them do too much at times and because they simply try to lift as heavy as possible for every movement they always end up with shoulder (etc) issues because of the sheer amount of working sets for pressing (etc) movements. There is definitely a smarter way of doing things and I believe people should rotate training volume/frequency.

The secret for the guys at places like Oxygen is all they do is train, eat and take drugs and when they aren't doing those things they are often resting so it's like a bodybuilding camp. It's a combination of all elements being pushed to the extreme and not due to some magical training split.

Pretty much how I train now ^^^^ (not so concerned with getting brutally strong rather keeping my density from when I use to be brutally strong)

 

[jaxino]

this is how I trained for years, even when JP was not known at all - the best method to build most of the muscle mass needed, but when you become extremely strong, e.g. you do hack SQ 300-340kg,SQ 220-260kg, legpress 500-600kg, bench 180-200kg it starts to do very dangerous and you start looking for other methods

I am not that strong all but i am starting having aches here and there... in few days i will be 40y old... it would be awesome to find another way to grow....

Imho i think that volume for me will be the only way.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I love how you guys talk about this training that training blah blah blah . Back in the day it was shut up and lift big weights not all this over complicated training styles that everybody comes up with now in days . Shut the fuck in and lift heavy that’s it

"Well back in my day..."
It's 2022 and refusing to stay up to date on the latest training advancements, ESPECIALLY if you truly want to be big and strong, is just laaaazy.

 

[xpoc]

I love how you guys talk about this training that training blah blah blah . Back in the day it was shut up and lift big weights not all this over complicated training styles that everybody comes up with now in days . Shut the fuck in and lift heavy that’s it

This sounds cool... but the fact is, there is research and a ton of anecdotal evidence out there to show perhaps things could be done more optimally than "back in the day." For example, DC training. Yes, it is lifting big weights, but it is also very systematic and requires maintaining a log book etc. The same could be said for the Meadows routines or Jordan Peters. At least trying one of these routines would more beneficial to most, than simply showing up to the gym without a gameplan other tossing around big iron with no rhyme or reason.