Equipoise causes cancer??

[Worldsfastestfatty]

Life causes cancer.

Another LoC fan?

 

[pickapeck]

A friend of mine is taking John Jewet’s J3 university program and apparently in their Jewet mentions not liking EQ because of its higher than normal probability for causing cancer. I’d never heard anything like that so I did a little research and it is definitely mentioned a bit as “probable human carcinogen with a high carcinogenic index”

has anybody else heard of this or done any research on it being a higher risk than anything else??

i think it is was that bad everybody on this board for more than 3 years would be sporting tumors.

 

[pistonpump]

U can get cancer at any fuckin time in your life so who fucking cares live life before u can't! Simple

 

[Dens228]

Life causes cancer.

Exactly! Look at the California warning labels. LOL

 

[cmryan]

If Jewett says it it probably came from Victor Black. And Victor Black says EQ is "prohibited" lol in his model because it wasn't ever in human use. If you recall, the EQ argument he had with Rex Feral is why Victor came here to grandstand. He also thinks it's more kidney toxic than other steroids. "In the bin it goes" lol. I think he drew exaggerated conclusions on little data.

You're being very kind.

 

[Mufasa123]

I think sometimes people just say shit to get noticed and have people circulate their names.

Bottom line. Most every aas has been around and in use since the 1970s or maybe 80s. The only real innovations have been anciliaries (AIs and PCT stuff). There aren't that many drugs either so if there was some genuine magic combo or dosage...with all these people working and exerting brain power, we'd have definitely found it long ago. It just isn't that hard or complicated.

Now some stuff that is new is people actually doing fucking blood work and seeing how DHTs and/or equipoise can effect E2 or that orals aren't so liver toxic to most people and potentially bigger issue is impact on lipids. This is cool. Also means that for 40-50 years real blood work wasn't being done in the community regardless of what people said because this is also fairly basic shit and bro-Sci has reigned supreme and repeated ad nauseum. This is not cool IMO but is what it is. I do blood work and compare for myself anyway as we are also somewhat unique and effect on ME means a lot to ME. I also share with that caveat.

 

[control]

If Jewett says it it probably came from Victor Black. And Victor Black says EQ is "prohibited" lol in his model because it wasn't ever in human use. If you recall, the EQ argument he had with Rex Feral is why Victor came here to grandstand. He also thinks it's more kidney toxic than other steroids. "In the bin it goes" lol. I think he drew exaggerated conclusions on little data.

It was used for human osteoporosis in the 1960s, it was called Parenabol

 

[Mufasa123]

It was used for human osteoporosis in the 1960s, it was called Parenabol

Very first paragraph on Wikipedia too - top of damn page. Further down patented by Ciba (shockingly same structure as their dbol less the methyl group) in late 1940s and clinical use under Parenabol in 60s, discontinued late 70s.

Got to love the YouTube internet coaches assertions when literacy and basic research skills are easy to question. Are people just desparate for someone to follow? I guess a real answer (eat progressively, train progressively, increase your effective dosages progressively as needed and do this consistently over years) isn't sexy. Sadly hard work over a long period of time is never sexy. Humans just don't like it.

 

[KillerStack]

It was used for human osteoporosis in the 1960s, it was called Parenabol

Yeah I saw where Rex Feral mentioned Parenabol specifically I think. Or at least that the trade name was approved meaning it was all set to go. Victor said it was completely wrong but this is a guy who declares himself "winner," (never was wrong once or lost any debate, which is why everyone "hates him") then bans guys from his IG page so you can't build up your case. You'd think this specific matter could be fact-checked to see who's right but if not you'd have to let it be and not declare a winner lol.

I didn't search for or about Victor's claims about the EQ as it's not that important to me but I'd bet the claims would need more corroboration than whatever snippet of data he bases his claims on to definitively say it's more kidney toxic or carcinogenic than other steroids. OTOH you might decide to err on the side of caution and choose something else. On one hand he believes in only using human approved drugs but many of these he throws in the bin anyway, Dianabol was way too neurotoxic for example. I think it's the same with this as with the EQ, is neurotoxicity really much of a concern in practise? He is fine with tren because of Parabolan. I don't think just because it was in human use, to very small relative extent I think actually, that it's not possibly more deleterious to kidneys or what have you, even taking into account the relative potency. He thinks it's wrong to say it's particularly kidney unfriendfly, and he's probably right that there's no evidence proving this, so he has an argument there but I don't think he can state it's not especially bad for sure.

I've rambled about Victor a bit much here maybe but I think he's a fascinating personality and I get some type of entertainment from watching his behavior. He has made plenty of good points and taken to task some blatant misinformation so he isn't all bad. In his favor we can see he's almost started a whole "movement" if you will, what with so many outright copying his talking points and not crediting Victor. Someone like Jewett sells Victors "$50" information for thousands, must piss Vic off lol.

 

[Doitagain]

Yeah I saw where Rex Feral mentioned Parenabol specifically I think. Or at least that the trade name was approved meaning it was all set to go. Victor said it was completely wrong but this is a guy who declares himself "winner," (never was wrong once or lost any debate, which is why everyone "hates him") then bans guys from his IG page so you can't build up your case. You'd think this specific matter could be fact-checked to see who's right but if not you'd have to let it be and not declare a winner lol.

I didn't search for or about Victor's claims about the EQ as it's not that important to me but I'd bet the claims would need more corroboration than whatever snippet of data he bases his claims on to definitively say it's more kidney toxic or carcinogenic than other steroids. OTOH you might decide to err on the side of caution and choose something else. On one hand he believes in only using human approved drugs but many of these he throws in the bin anyway, Dianabol was way too neurotoxic for example. I think it's the same with this as with the EQ, is neurotoxicity really much of a concern in practise? He is fine with tren because of Parabolan. I don't think just because it was in human use, to very small relative extent I think actually, that it's not possibly more deleterious to kidneys or what have you, even taking into account the relative potency. He thinks it's wrong to say it's particularly kidney unfriendfly, and he's probably right that there's no evidence proving this, so he has an argument there but I don't think he can state it's not especially bad for sure.

I've rambled about Victor a bit much here maybe but I think he's a fascinating personality and I get some type of entertainment from watching his behavior. He has made plenty of good points and taken to task some blatant misinformation so he isn't all bad. In his favor we can see he's almost started a whole "movement" if you will, what with so many outright copying his talking points and not crediting Victor. Someone like Jewett sells Victors "$50" information for thousands, must piss Vic off lol.

Halotestin is approved and still prescribed for human use while 4-AD for example (the mild, non-toxic Testosterone pro-hormone) is illegal and hasn't ever been marketed as a drug. Retarded “logic“.

 

[FartJohnson]

Has there been a pro bodybuilder who died from—or even developed—cancer? Seems like it’s always heart and/or kidney issues.

 

[pickapeck]

Halotestin is approved and still prescribed for human use while 4-AD for example (the mild, non-toxic Testosterone pro-hormone) is illegal and hasn't ever been marketed as a drug. Retarded “logic“.

I'll tickle the receptors with a little of that when the feeling's right.

 

[qbkilla]

and i think it makes me sick to see all the magic theories of all the internet gurus that are just to attract customers to them for a "healthy attitude" lol - bodybuilding and health

Agree with this. And to me it's a little cringe to see these guys calling their content"masterclass" and "university." I'm all for capitalism and if people want to pay to read about AAS when they can read about it here for free, but using the term "university " is a bit much. Lol

 

[Bio]

Has there been a pro bodybuilder who died from—or even developed—cancer? Seems like it’s always heart and/or kidney issues.

Dennis Newman and Tonya Knight. There's another but I can't recall who. Keep in mind, heart disease is the number one killer, more than all cancers combined! So, it's not surprising if a bodybuilder develops heart disease, considering it's already rampant in the general population. It shouldn't be a surprise about kidney disease either considering how many bodybuilders still don't monitor blood pressure. The number one cause of kidney failure is high BP...or at least that was the statistic not that long ago.

This reminds me of the potential for cancer with GH. If it was more probable than not, we would see a high percentage of bodybuilders, competitive and non competitive, rife with cancer!

 

[hawkmoon]

Dennis Newman and Tonya Knight. There's another but I can't recall who. Keep in mind, heart disease is the number one killer, more than all cancers combined! So, it's not surprising if a bodybuilder develops heart disease, considering it's already rampant in the general population. It shouldn't be a surprise about kidney disease either considering how many bodybuilders still don't monitor blood pressure. The number one cause of kidney failure is high BP...or at least that was the statistic not that long ago.

This reminds me of the potential for cancer with GH. If it was more probable than not, we would see a high percentage of bodybuilders, competitive and non competitive, rife with cancer!

I think if one is prone to cancer anything anabolic is going to tips the scales. Nothing loves an anabolic environment more than cancer.
It's the same argument people use for red meat causing cancer (not processed meats, mind you).

 

[FartJohnson]

Dennis Newman and Tonya Knight. There's another but I can't recall who. Keep in mind, heart disease is the number one killer, more than all cancers combined! So, it's not surprising if a bodybuilder develops heart disease, considering it's already rampant in the general population. It shouldn't be a surprise about kidney disease either considering how many bodybuilders still don't monitor blood pressure. The number one cause of kidney failure is high BP...or at least that was the statistic not that long ago.

This reminds me of the potential for cancer with GH. If it was more probable than not, we would see a high percentage of bodybuilders, competitive and non competitive, rife with cancer!

Yesss Dennis Newman was who I was forgetting. Thank you!

I respectfully disagree with your assertion regarding heart disease vs cancer. Yes, heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US but cancer is #2, and the difference is not very large - about 695k vs 605k, respectively. It’s impossible to draw any firm conclusions without analyzing the numbers but given the large disparity in bodybuilders, I think it’s reasonable to say that the heart takes the brunt of the damage. Also, I think it might be reasonable to say that PEDs aren’t generally carcinogenic, or else we’d see more bodybuilders developing cancer. Would be an interesting topic for an epidemiologist to study.

Great point about the blood pressure though .. 1/3 of Americans are hypertensive already, and I’m sure the numbers are even worse for bodybuilders. It can be easily managed and will go a long way towards protecting the heart And kidneys.

 

[mexbeast]

Yesss Dennis Newman was who I was forgetting. Thank you!

I respectfully disagree with your assertion regarding heart disease vs cancer. Yes, heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US but cancer is #2, and the difference is not very large - about 695k vs 605k, respectively. It’s impossible to draw any firm conclusions without analyzing the numbers but given the large disparity in bodybuilders, I think it’s reasonable to say that the heart takes the brunt of the damage. Also, I think it might be reasonable to say that PEDs aren’t generally carcinogenic, or else we’d see more bodybuilders developing cancer. Would be an interesting topic for an epidemiologist to study.

Great point about the blood pressure though .. 1/3 of Americans are hypertensive already, and I’m sure the numbers are even worse for bodybuilders. It can be easily managed and will go a long way towards protecting the heart And kidneys.

We should also remember that there's about a million different types of cancer and that at least half of those suffering from it are women

 

[Keefs]

I mean, a lot of shit causes cancer! Especially if you live in California! Seriously though I remember working out with a guy about 15 years ago. He had survived a battle with cancer and he swore up and down that Deca was the cause of it. He would only use test from then on.

 

[KillerStack]

I think if one is prone to cancer anything anabolic is going to tips the scales. Nothing loves an anabolic environment more than cancer.
It's the same argument people use for red meat causing cancer (not processed meats, mind you).

One influencer many of us know, who unfortunately passed away, said on IG we should all avoid milk because of the cancer risk. The theory was that milk has been shown to increase IGF-1 so therefore it increases cancer. There were a bunch of tabloid newspaper articles on it, but I said reading those is not necessarily "research" like he thought, they are just sensationalised opinion pieces with a smidgen of fact and whole lot of assumptions. It was a pissy reply on my part and he blocked me.

I've seen a few educated "experts" tell people who say they did research, "you did no such thing, you don't know how. you don't know how to evaluate a study" Lol.

 

[beastmode121]

So does Splenda and aspartame and I use it daily