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excessive use of insulin

cmryan

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That’s because R has two spikes instead of the single spike you get from log
Respectfully, that doesn’t account for the effects I feel 25 minutes after IM injection, and I felt no second spike of action from IM that is typical from subq.
 

heavyhitter

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Respectfully, that doesn’t account for the effects I feel 25 minutes after IM injection, and I felt no second spike of action from IM that is typical from subq.
This is true. I misread your post. Personally I’ve not found this to be true. Sub Q log has always hit me faster and harder than intramuscular R. That said...log is easier to predict and avoid going hypo
 

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@BigNJ just so you don't feel alone, I agree 💯👌 with everything you have said.
 

Elvia1023

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Elvia,

When you dose your slin pre-workout, how long before the workout, do you inject your slin?

I tend to do it about 10-15 mins before leaving for the gym. Then it takes me 5-10 mins to get to the gym so it's near peak when I start training and it lasts for the duration. Nothing has to be exact but I simply inject it then I do synthetine then I usually eat a banana or 2 then take my preworkout and leave. There is merit to taking it before your preworkout meal as well but I prefer it to be spiking as I am on my way to the gym and sipping my intra shake so when I start lifting everything is going to the right places and that results in incredible pumps/fullness.
 

cmryan

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This is true. I misread your post. Personally I’ve not found this to be true. Sub Q log has always hit me faster and harder than intramuscular R. That said...log is easier to predict and avoid going hypo
No worries man. I’m certain there has to be some personal variability to it and our experiences would seem to indicate that. But if someone is interested in insulin use, I think it’s almost incumbent on them to try novolin-r IM when you consider how easily acquired and cheap it is. Just my opinion based on things I’ve read snd experienced. Cheers.
 

BigNJ

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For the folks who use Insulin pre workout, what are you trying to accomplish?

1- Like some are saying, shuttle nutrients into the muscle
2- Increase performance from glycogen loading i.e. get more ATP

Let's look at number 1. Why would you want to feed a muscle while working out? Do you think the muscle can recover and get damaged at the same time? How does this make any sense. We all know that recovery starts after exercise. Do we at least agree on this one? How can you help a muscle recover i.e by using insulin and aminos and carbs during a workout when the muscle actually recovers way after? Lets say this is possible, lets pretend that you are actually helping the muscle recover while working out, do you really think that 1 or so hours are going to make a difference?

How do you glycogen super compensate a muscle? 2 ways: 1 taking lots of insulin and carbs throughout the day this will achieve glycogen supercompensation in about 8 or 10 hours. or 2: Deplete the muscle and just have carbs whithout insulin, this will take roughly 3 days. None of this relies on a "Pre workout Insulin" You can simply use Insulin if you wish throughout the day with carbs and amino acids and you will still get fantastic results i.e. Positive Nitrogen balance and glycogen super compensation.

If you really want to fall for the supplement selling agendas, then by all mean get your HBCDs, Vitargos and Waxyshit and Pre and Intra dinks and spend your money for all I care. Or you can wait that hour or so and do the insulin with a nice Whey Isolate and some carbs . You are not helping recovery while you are training, because your are not recovering while you are training, you are doing the exact opposite of recovery, you are supposed to stimulate the muscle and overload the muscle so it grows bigger while resting.

Use Insulin sparingly to keep from desensitizing your body to it and use it when it is most needed. Post workout and recovery time is when you will grow, not while you are working out. Hell I would even use it 2 or 3 times AFTER my workout with protein and carbs, but I don't like to have insulin circulating in me all the time, it's not healthy.
 

Elvia1023

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It's simply feels better. That is my answer. I understand the science and everything you just posted but I also know there are some unknowns when it comes to the science and things haven't been studied extensively when it comes to what bodybuilders do. Most importantly I have used preworkout slin 100+ times and I have used post workout slin 100+ times. I have done it before meals and I have experimented with everything including dose and insulin types. I even tried the high dosed pre and post protocol Milos gives to most of his clients (not a fan of that).

When I do it how my body prefers it simply feels better and I get more from preworkout slin. You can write all the science in the world as to why that can't be true but it clearly is and it's most likely the same reason many others love to use preworkout insulin. It's just another tool and by no means essential but I don't understand why you are arguing such a point when everyone is different and it's obviously working for many people (they like it). Again if you do pre, post, pre/post etc it's not going to make much difference as insulin is still being used so it's still going to aid recovery and fullness etc etc. It's just I personally get more from preworkout insulin and the fullness and pumps (and future recovery) are night and day difference when I use it or don't. The same for intra nutrition and yes I know the science but a night/day difference when I use intra aminos/carbs and it's also an easy way to get another "meal" in as I struggle to fit them in a typical day. Anyway back to the football...
 

heavyhitter

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No worries man. I’m certain there has to be some personal variability to it and our experiences would seem to indicate that. But if someone is interested in insulin use, I think it’s almost incumbent on them to try novolin-r IM when you consider how easily acquired and cheap it is. Just my opinion based on things I’ve read snd experienced. Cheers.
This I totally agree with. I use R solely because of how easy it is to get
 

totalrecomp

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For the folks who use Insulin pre workout, what are you trying to accomplish?

1- Like some are saying, shuttle nutrients into the muscle
2- Increase performance from glycogen loading i.e. get more ATP

Let's look at number 1. Why would you want to feed a muscle while working out? Do you think the muscle can recover and get damaged at the same time? How does this make any sense. We all know that recovery starts after exercise. Do we at least agree on this one? How can you help a muscle recover i.e by using insulin and aminos and carbs during a workout when the muscle actually recovers way after? Lets say this is possible, lets pretend that you are actually helping the muscle recover while working out, do you really think that 1 or so hours are going to make a difference?

How do you glycogen super compensate a muscle? 2 ways: 1 taking lots of insulin and carbs throughout the day this will achieve glycogen supercompensation in about 8 or 10 hours. or 2: Deplete the muscle and just have carbs whithout insulin, this will take roughly 3 days. None of this relies on a "Pre workout Insulin" You can simply use Insulin if you wish throughout the day with carbs and amino acids and you will still get fantastic results i.e. Positive Nitrogen balance and glycogen super compensation.

If you really want to fall for the supplement selling agendas, then by all mean get your HBCDs, Vitargos and Waxyshit and Pre and Intra dinks and spend your money for all I care. Or you can wait that hour or so and do the insulin with a nice Whey Isolate and some carbs . You are not helping recovery while you are training, because your are not recovering while you are training, you are doing the exact opposite of recovery, you are supposed to stimulate the muscle and overload the muscle so it grows bigger while resting.

Use Insulin sparingly to keep from desensitizing your body to it and use it when it is most needed. Post workout and recovery time is when you will grow, not while you are working out. Hell I would even use it 2 or 3 times AFTER my workout with protein and carbs, but I don't like to have insulin circulating in me all the time, it's not healthy.

The bold: I am of the opinion that muscle thinks the workout is over the second you finish set 1, 2, 3, 34 or 100. It does not know you have 17 more sets of chest you plan on smashing for 37.5 more minutes. I believe muscle recovery starts immediately post set but I am open to evidence to the contrary. For example, say your training quads and shoulders. You perform your squats, leg press, and hacks. You take a minute to strip off your knee sleeves and take a piss. You the start in on shoulders. Are you of the opinion that your legs are not starting recovery(assuming substrates ie EAA's and glucose are present in the blood) because you are still training?

I am with Elvia on the it just feels better. It took slowly introducing eaa's and carbs for my stomach to get used to it but my training sessions are improved. I make no claim of super-compensation but I also don't feel like stopped dog shit for 6 hours post anymore. I also train AM with no meal in me as I can't stand whole food in my stomach when training and I am not getting up at 3AM for a pre-meal.
 

b-boy

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The bold: I am of the opinion that muscle thinks the workout is over the second you finish set 1, 2, 3, 34 or 100. It does not know you have 17 more sets of chest you plan on smashing for 37.5 more minutes. I believe muscle recovery starts immediately post set but I am open to evidence to the contrary. For example, say your training quads and shoulders. You perform your squats, leg press, and hacks. You take a minute to strip off your knee sleeves and take a piss. You the start in on shoulders. Are you of the opinion that your legs are not starting recovery(assuming substrates ie EAA's and glucose are present in the blood) because you are still training?

I am with Elvia on the it just feels better. It took slowly introducing eaa's and carbs for my stomach to get used to it but my training sessions are improved. I make no claim of super-compensation but I also don't feel like stopped dog shit for 6 hours post anymore. I also train AM with no meal in me as I can't stand whole food in my stomach when training and I am not getting up at 3AM for a pre-meal.
Man my favorite parts of all those Dorian Yates and Ronnie coleman training videos was watching them sip their intra shakes to cover their pre workout insulin shots and get those amino acids in there to start the recovery process IMMEDIATELY. I remember Markus Ruhl had the most complex intra shake, it was amazing!

🙄 👀

Ps. I'm being funny so don't get mad
 

Elvia1023

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Man my favorite parts of all those Dorian Yates and Ronnie coleman training videos was watching them sip their intra shakes to cover their pre workout insulin shots and get those amino acids in there to start the recovery process IMMEDIATELY. I remember Markus Ruhl had the most complex intra shake, it was amazing!



Ps. I'm being funny so don't get mad

I know you're only messing about but that's besides the point. No one is stating it's essential and many of the best bodybuilders of all time didn't even use insulin or many of the things people use today. People can eat 4-8 whole food meals per day with no supplements and be one of the best bodybuilders in the world but that doesn't mean whey isolate or any other food supplement can't still be useful. Even if a guy doesn't even look that good it doesn't mean there isn't value to many of the things he is doing/taking. Many of the best bodybuilders from years ago didn't use tren either but it doesn't mean people today can't use it and get incredible results.

No one on here is stating that taking insulin preworkout is some magic drug that if taken at that precise time it suddenly turns you into a freak. At the same time you can't discount numerous opinions from people who have used (or know many who do) insulin extensively and they simply prefer taking it preworkout. I couldn't care less what people do but I know my body well and I feel/see the difference when I use insulin with intra shakes. That doesn't mean they will work for everyone and for many they feel and even look better not using insulin and powdered carbs.

At the end of the day it's simply a matter of does something improve things for yourself regardless of your stature. Does taking insulin, l-carnitine, creatine, tren, hgh, citrus bergamot, deca and everything else improve something for you and if so then take them. Just because Ronnie Coleman didn't use something it doesn't mean others can't get use from them. I simply prefer using an intra shake and even if it didn't aid recovery (it 100% does for me) I would still drink one simply because I like sipping on a fruit flavoured drink during training.
 

Elvia1023

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perhaps some intra chianti or liver with some fava beans instead of the fruitydrink, hannibal @Elvia1023 ? :D

Wine would be a good intra today as I should be going out into town after the gym. The bars are back open so we can sit inside as long as there are no more than 6 per table :D
 

Muay Thai

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Wine would be a good intra today as I should be going out into town after the gym. The bars are back open so we can sit inside as long as there are no more than 6 per table :D
provecho (enjoy)

really though, I am a dry red guy if I had to choose. Malbecs are good also, have a blast brother. you deserve it. I am going to the ocean pier/boardwalk after light workout at the gym, to eat funnel cake and mexican botana fruit drinks, fryed pretzels with cheese , fair food.
 

SDRaver

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Besides the timing of use, how long do some go when it comes to duration of use of insulin? Weeks at a time? months at a time? month on/month off?
 

OuchThatHurts

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As I read some of these responses, I want to be clear that it was never my intention to argue or put anyone down for their opinions. I may have wandered too far into the tall weeds a bit on this thread but only for the sake kickstarting of a spirited conversation and exchange of ideas. That's what charges me up. I'm currently not using insulin pre or post. I just don't eat enough carbs for slin right now. I run on almost entirely protein and fats. In fact, I haven't taken anything other than creatine, protein, EAAs, BCAAs, bromelain, fish/krill oil caps and some vitamins in over 3 years.

I hadn't intended for anything to turn into a virtual pile-on. I give props to @BigNJ for sticking to his guns as I do @luki7788 and all other science and slin advocates (which includes myself) here. When I've determined that my own VO2 max, vascular system, and CNS has gotten back to an acceptable level, THEN I will start adding the anabolics. What I'm doing now is still working just fine without them. I give props to anyone that has something valuable to share and shares it up (despite possible criticism). To those that read all of this thread and had real information and didn't post up, shame on ya. Take some online verbal abuse and sack up! It won't hurt you. I promise.

This thread will eventually disappear into the virtual graveyard with hundreds of other threads on insulin. It will be buried between "What's the best protein source?" and "I'm having tren sides". All these are viewable with a simple search or using the advanced option with keywords.

Once again, we're in that place again: what current science is saying (which is 99% solid) vs what real-world experience demonstrates (also 99% true). So what do we say now?

A) that many elite BBers and PLers have all been wrong, week in and week out, for years on end (with positive results), that they should scrap all their slin protocols? No.

B) that educated and science-based approach trainees scrap their logic and science-based protocols for "he said, she said"? No.

Keep doing what you're doing and what you get, you get. What you don't get, that's on you. Remember beef liver/organ tabs? Nonsense right? Decades went by and we all laughed them off as silly. Here we are in 2021 and guess what I'm taking?

I sure hope to bump up my carbs at some point. Then I can start using fast acting slin once again because I loved it with a ton of carbs (if I remember correctly, I was told it would kill me or put me in the hospital). I also loved a post-WO dose of IGF-1 or IGF lr3 with a TON of food. I'd be lit up for hours! Loved it. Can't wait!

Peace to all. Looking good. It's all about the journey. ✌💯
 

b-boy

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I know you're only messing about but that's besides the point. No one is stating it's essential and many of the best bodybuilders of all time didn't even use insulin or many of the things people use today. People can eat 4-8 whole food meals per day with no supplements and be one of the best bodybuilders in the world but that doesn't mean whey isolate or any other food supplement can't still be useful. Even if a guy doesn't even look that good it doesn't mean there isn't value to many of the things he is doing/taking. Many of the best bodybuilders from years ago didn't use tren either but it doesn't mean people today can't use it and get incredible results.

No one on here is stating that taking insulin preworkout is some magic drug that if taken at that precise time it suddenly turns you into a freak. At the same time you can't discount numerous opinions from people who have used (or know many who do) insulin extensively and they simply prefer taking it preworkout. I couldn't care less what people do but I know my body well and I feel/see the difference when I use insulin with intra shakes. That doesn't mean they will work for everyone and for many they feel and even look better not using insulin and powdered carbs.

At the end of the day it's simply a matter of does something improve things for yourself regardless of your stature. Does taking insulin, l-carnitine, creatine, tren, hgh, citrus bergamot, deca and everything else improve something for you and if so then take them. Just because Ronnie Coleman didn't use something it doesn't mean others can't get use from them. I simply prefer using an intra shake and even if it didn't aid recovery (it 100% does for me) I would still drink one simply because I like sipping on a fruit flavoured drink during training.
The funny thing is the guys I joked about did use insulin and plenty of it, I think you possibly missed the point of my joke and what @BigNJ is saying maybe 😉
 

Muay Thai

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Besides the timing of use, how long do some go when it comes to duration of use of insulin? Weeks at a time? months at a time? month on/month off?
I have been on insulin almost everyday since january and i am lean af right now and was a tub of lard in jan compared to now, I take days off here and there , and sometimes tiny microdose, cat and dog doses as luki says :D
 

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