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Exerpt from an old Paul Borreson Interview, about cardiac damage

maldorf

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Here is what Borreson said in the interview about a study. He mentions Dan Duchaine too. Both are dead now, so this is probably fairly old.

"Anyway, I'm working with a Professor Bruce Davis, he's heading up the team with myself, and we are simply taking subjects than have been on steroids for 20 years or more and looking at them, echogram, cardiogram, testing their fitness, blood tests, everything. It takes a full day for the protocol.

AE: What are you finding?

PB: The first 14 people we looked at had cardiac damage. Now that frightened the shit out of me. I can quote this because this is accurate and anyone can check this with Glamorgan, 4 of the subject are probably going to need operations within the next 10 years. Now I did not expect the damage to come out in the cardiac area, I expected it to come out in the liver and the kidneys. Now we're going to produce a paper and I was expecting it to prove that after 20 years of steroid use, everyone was alright. And that isn't the case. After 20 years, 50% of the people were perfectly health, 40% had damage that was repairable, and 10% had irreversible cardiac damage. That's the results so far. That's a bit scary, isn't it?

AE: It is.

PB: There's no arguing it either. I know lots of bodybuilders, and I'll take the people I talk to or coach and ask them if they'd like to go along. They get a complete check over, blood test for free. One of the members of my staff, Bill Bingham, he's only 22, and he has elevated cardiac enzyme at age 22. He's now come off everything under my advice. In 10 years time, he would have been one of those 10%. We've got a 27-year old who will need a heart bypass operation before he's 30. It frightened the life out of me because it's hardcore evidence. It's the first quality research into this that I know about.

AE: How many subjects have been tested so far?

PB: I've only seen the results from 30 subjects, they've actually tested more. The full study will be 200 subjects by the time the paper is written.

AE: When do you expect that to be out?

PB: The paper should be out in 16 weeks. I don't want thousands of people emailing the University of Glamorgan asking for this reseach, but as a magazine you could. They'd happily provide it to you. They'll happily tell you about it. I don't think they'll want to go into exacting details with you because as scientists they need to complete the study, but they will at least confirm the study is ongoing and that the indications are not what we expected. We actually intended to prove that anabolic steroid use was perfectly healthy and all this cardiac stuff has come up. [Editors note: After I transcribed this portion of the tape, I contacted the University to inquire about the test Paul is referring too. Nothing has been confirmed as of yet] "
 
Control group?

Mal,

Did they also have a control group to see what their cardiac status was?

It would be interesting to also take non-steroid using lifters/BBs as well as a group that was average Joes that smoked, drank, whatever and see how all groups compared.
 
Mal,

Did they also have a control group to see what their cardiac status was?

It would be interesting to also take non-steroid using lifters/BBs as well as a group that was average Joes that smoked, drank, whatever and see how all groups compared.

Yeah,this wasnt a scientific study, but the occurance of this type of ailment is not nearly this common in the normal population at such a young age. The only things that speparte these guys from the normal population is the fact that they took AAS for many years and they bodybuild. So unless for some odd reason they all smoke or drink more than the average person, you can extrapolate the data. Or maybe lifting weights was responsible for this, long shot.
Would it hold its own as a true controlled study, no but it is rather compelling. There are a good number of us on here that have heart trouble.
 
What type of usage are we talking about in this study? Id like to see 20+ years of heavy cycling vs. 20+ years of basic 500-600 mg test cycles... In reality there are alot of people that take doses WAY more than necesary
 
What type of usage are we talking about in this study? Id like to see 20+ years of heavy cycling vs. 20+ years of basic 500-600 mg test cycles... In reality there are alot of people that take doses WAY more than necesary

I consider 20 years of 500-600mg(multiple times a year) heavy usage.
 
I consider 20 years of 500-600mg(multiple times a year) heavy usage.

if you consider two 500mg cycles of test a year heavy usage... what do you consider people who cruise and blast at a gram a week multiple times a year as well as taking orals like anadrol and dbol along with it?
 
if you consider two 500mg cycles of test a year heavy usage... what do you consider people who cruise and blast at a gram a week multiple times a year as well as taking orals like anadrol and dbol along with it?

Crazy.lol

After I got in my 30's, I just don't believe in high dose anything. I get good results on low doses. For instance, I basically stay on 100mg of test a week, periodically I add in short cycles(4-6 weeks). Like now, 200mg of tren e and 25 mg of anadrol. I also believe that long cycles in your 30's(over 6-7 weeks) is just plain bad for you body.
I stay on gh year round(alternated with ghrp)
At 38, I more concerned with my health(which includes diet) then getting really large. As a matter of fact, its the last thing I worry about.

I think alot of these guys doing really high dosages thru their 30's and 40's will pay a very high price in terms of their health.

Just my opinon.
 
I think alot of you guys should look into Borresson's background....alot of mental issues, breakdowns, complete fabrications and flat out lying, so much so Kerry Keyes and Yates distanced themselves from him at one point. (He took me for I think close to 1000 bucks on book sales....just took the money).....I dont think very highly of him except he was an individual who so desperately wanted to make a name for himself, any way he could do it....

Is what he saying potentially true....yes...probably...maybe

but it sure as hell is a bad source for it to come from....
 
I think alot of you guys should look into Borresson's background....alot of mental issues, breakdowns, complete fabrications and flat out lying, so much so Kerry Keyes and Yates distanced themselves from him at one point. (He took me for I think close to 1000 bucks on book sales....just took the money).....I dont think very highly of him except he was an individual who so desperately wanted to make a name for himself, any way he could do it....

Is what he saying potentially true....yes...probably...maybe

but it sure as hell is a bad source for it to come from....



100% Agree, he was a crazy mofo.

Tried to kill himself by jumping out of a 2nd story building...
All busted up real bad, but he survived.
The 2nd suicide attempt was sucessful.
 
I did a quick search..... but there is probably much more out there Maldorf....you might want to read thru this.

**broken link removed**
 
I did a quick search..... but there is probably much more out there Maldorf....you might want to read thru this.

**broken link removed**

I knew he was controverseal, but I didnt know how much. THe only way to know if this study he speaks of really happened is to search it down. Ill look around a bit.
 
Dr. Bruce Davies

Found this. It lists all of his studies. Starting in 2001 he began research involving anabolic steroids. If you look at peer reviewed extracts, the studies start at #15 and go on from that point. I havent been able to find the studies online yet, but im sure they are there somewhere. I do not doubt that they found cardiac issues in those athletes.

**broken link removed**
 
One interesting thing, I know that scandanavian countries have fewer laws that surround studies like this. I worked toward my masters in exercise physiology here in the states and one of the docs I knew really well, he taught gross anatomy at the medical school, told me how he went over there for 2 years and conducted some studies that he would not have been able to do over here because of legal implications. Im not sure what he was studying/
 
maldorf, have you seen this?

YouTube - True Strength: Kris Dim

What do you think of his decision to get back into bodybuilding?

Thanks for that. Recovering from my heart attack I felt all the same things he did. Listening to him was like a window into my mind. I think its great that he is back,and happy. It is indeed a risk for him to do what hes doing ,but I totally understand. I still squat with 300 lbs +, which would have been a warm up weight before, and I am probably putting myself at risk. The doctors talked about me squating with a pair of small dumbells. I did almost die 2x after squating, but I still squat. I understand and would have done the same as he. I just hope that he isnt using AAS anymore. Its hard to believe though that he could have built back to where he is today without doing that though.
He had an aortic dissection. Thats where a segment of your aorta is weak and balloons out. Eventually that will burst, and then you are bleeding internally inside your chest. Like he said, the biggest risk for him is high blood pressure. I would worry about lifting really heavy in things like squats and deadlifts because your BP is going to spike.
 
Thanks for that. Recovering from my heart attack I felt all the same things he did. Listening to him was like a window into my mind. I think its great that he is back,and happy. It is indeed a risk for him to do what hes doing ,but I totally understand. I still squat with 300 lbs +, which would have been a warm up weight before, and I am probably putting myself at risk. The doctors talked about me squating with a pair of small dumbells. I did almost die 2x after squating, but I still squat. I understand and would have done the same as he. I just hope that he isnt using AAS anymore. Its hard to believe though that he could have built back to where he is today without doing that though.
He had an aortic dissection. Thats where a segment of your aorta is weak and balloons out. Eventually that will burst, and then you are bleeding internally inside your chest. Like he said, the biggest risk for him is high blood pressure. I would worry about lifting really heavy in things like squats and deadlifts because your BP is going to spike.

Do think aas caused his aortic dissection? I think he just got incredibly unlucky. A friend of friend had one never did drugs in his life. Died on the spot.
 
IMO it's a crap shoot. How many of these guys have done other drugs and drank along with AAS usage? It is just not proving too much. There's a shit ton of guys that have to have heart surgeries for various reasons.
 
Paul Boresson's book The Big Secret..etc.

Hey DC.. back in the day...probably 11 or 12 years ago I bought Borresson's book the Big Secret from you.. parts of the book were decent... but it really seemed like Paul embellished a significant portion of the it as well. Some his comments regarding physiology were very puzzling if not totally off.. I have a few copies of an old publication of his called the Governor as well... after Chemical nutrition Paul formed another company called Biohazard.. I believe the company is still around and has a US affiliate.. I have never tried any of their products so I don't know about it quality.. Has anyone????

all the best,

H2C2 (Ivor)

I think alot of you guys should look into Borresson's background....alot of mental issues, breakdowns, complete fabrications and flat out lying, so much so Kerry Keyes and Yates distanced themselves from him at one point. (He took me for I think close to 1000 bucks on book sales....just took the money).....I dont think very highly of him except he was an individual who so desperately wanted to make a name for himself, any way he could do it....

Is what he saying potentially true....yes...probably...maybe

but it sure as hell is a bad source for it to come from....
 
Hey DC.. back in the day...probably 11 or 12 years ago I bought Borresson's book the Big Secret from you.. parts of the book were decent... but it really seemed like Paul embellished a significant portion of the it as well. Some his comments regarding physiology were very puzzling if not totally off.. I have a few copies of an old publication of his called the Governor as well... after Chemical nutrition Paul formed another company called Biohazard.. I believe the company is still around and has a US affiliate.. I have never tried any of their products so I don't know about it quality.. Has anyone????

all the best,

H2C2 (Ivor)

I have a few of his old underground magazine called Gearuzer. Found them in a bin of old muscle magazines at some local weightlifting store maybe about 7 years ago. I have to look through them see whats i there.
 
Do think aas caused his aortic dissection? I think he just got incredibly unlucky. A friend of friend had one never did drugs in his life. Died on the spot.

Well, he was probably born with a weakness in that spot of his aorta, but if he had high blood pressure caused by AAS that would have aggrevated it. If you notice, his doctor warned him about high BP now and they are watching it very carefully. i wouldnt doubt it if he had untreated high blood pressure. Of course when you lift hard doing something like squats your BP is going to get really high especially during the concentric part of the lift(when you are coming up). Not holding your breath is important here in keeping intrathoracic pressure down. Holding your breathe and exerting yourself like that is called a valsalva maneuver, like what you do when you take a big dump, and should be avoided!
 

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