FDA: “Kratom is an opioid”

[brownbanana]

Watch "SouthPark Dopamine Explained" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/_t5aG9XEQgs

"Who's not trying to fill a fucking hole, right? What kind of bullshit is that"?
-Satan

 

[Massive G]

All that’s left is for the DEA to schedule 1 it and that’s all folks. Kratom is doomed. I bought a thousand grams this morning and planning for more before the whole shit house goes up in flames.

I don’t understand this. I don’t understand why they want to do this. The only people who benefit are big pharma pill mongers unless I’m missing something. Frustrating.


Compounds in herbal supplement kratom are opioids, FDA says - CNN

To be blunt it has fked up a lot of people's lives here to the point of addiction..just as steroids have...the dangers of kratom is well documented on here in a bunch of threads here...imagine it in the hands of non lifters party goers etc...they fuck everything up re: GHB - date rape, ketamine for those who remember...go one some of these "blue light" (hard core drugs benzo's painkillers) forums and read some threads and topics and you'll about faint, they stack so many drugs it's pitiful makes bodybuilding look like a candy cane.

 

[buck]

BB'ers and lifters probably have a tendency to addiction more then other groups I would bet. And are not any more upright then the rest of the population from my decades of hanging around them. Most of my non-lifter friends that have used kratom use it once in a while same as pot, but do drink moderately on the weekends.

 

[nickels]

no

I don't do drugs

Huh. No coffee, beer, or aspirin?
That's interesting....

 

[Samson250]

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I never said that kratom would keep people from being an addict. What I was saying was addictive people will find something to be addicted to if they don't guard against it. And the government can make laws but as we have seen addicts don't care and will do what it takes to find some thing to suit their needs. I figure kratom is a far better choice then other things as far as that goes.

And as for your last statement many 12 step groups would disagree as they have had great success with the spiritual approach.

Good points.

To be blunt it has fked up a lot of people's lives here to the point of addiction..just as steroids have...the dangers of kratom is well documented on here in a bunch of threads here...imagine it in the hands of non lifters party goers etc...they fuck everything up re: GHB - date rape, ketamine for those who remember...go one some of these "blue light" (hard core drugs benzo's painkillers) forums and read some threads and topics and you'll about faint, they stack so many drugs it's pitiful makes bodybuilding look like a candy cane.

The threads on PM are pretty bad your right Massive. You bring up some true points here as usual.
I suppose I see it from the angle of good for a junkie like me to stay off the hard stuff but like you say there is also the opposite angle I guess and that is as a gateway type substance. I really can’t argue against that possibility man

Huh. No coffee, beer, or aspirin?
That's interesting....

LS does only one drug and has only one addiction








Tranny’s!

 

[brownbanana]

I ordered some the 5th. A day before the FDA came out with the recent news. Yeah, it's effective. Definitely helped with the pain without the Blissfulness and false happiness of opiates. I am having difficulty finding some solid studies on this.

And that should be pushed. Meaning the FDA is acting out on very weak evidence. Here is one article that provided good info, scholarly back (scientists that is), and a good argument to not ban it. Because then it becomes very difficult to study it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-Opioid--We-re-Here-to-Explain-What-It-Does-/

"On the molecular level, what we know in terms of interaction with the different opioid receptors is that yes, they bind to the opioid receptor. . . . But how they interact with the opioid receptor is distinctly different from classical opioids. If you look at morphine or at something like fentanyl . . . what we usually look at when we classically look at opioid receptors, these are G-protein-coupled receptors, where basically the morphine or another binding agent binds from the outside to the receptor and then you have a kind of second-messenger cascade that happens inside the cell"...

So it sounds like there is something there. But the similar argument could compare and contrast Alcohol and Xanax. Both work the the Gaba receptor. They work similar. Alcohol is a bit more complex because it effects the whole body. But one is legal and one is a controlled substance. To come back to my point. I can't find legitimate sources on kratom to learn more about it and that includes what the FDA are providing. Meaning their evidence is shit.

 

[Samson250]

I asked my online supplier what will happen if the DEA schedules. I wanted to take their temperature and get a feel for how serious they are taking it. I know international shipments are already being seized and he admitted it had begun to affect them directly. Anyway here’s the owners reply

Hey ####, Last time it happened in September 2016 we had a 30 day notice. Within that 30 days it took about 2 weeks to go from full stock to nothing left. Typically customers rush in to get what they can while they still can.

I would imagine they would again have to issue another 30 day notice to allow time for disposal. It's hard to say what their agenda is but it certainly doesn't look good. They don't want to give up. It has been getting more difficult to get shipments through customs. After a good year with no issues, our latest one was held up. That may very well be their method of approach should they fail getting anything passed.

I know there is a lot of worry in the streets, sales always go through the roof when something is around the corner. We just have to keep up the fight, contact out representatives, sign the petitions as they come around and make sure we are heard. The longer we can hold them off the stronger our community grows and that is a good thing!

 

[BillyBlanco]

USA, Land of the free. So, the government can seize lawful personal property of individuals because they don’t agree with? For a substance that doesn’t cause depression meaning you can’t kill yourself. The FDA stared it filled the same receptors as opiates, just like naltrexone which is used to save overdose patients but of course, they did it to sensationalize it. Kratom is the same to me as marijuana and ephedrine. They might be mildly bad for you, won’t kill you, but they help people and but the govt. doesn’t want you to be able to take your health into your own hands. The nanny state knows best. They’ll turn Kratom into a prescription medication and sell it back to you at a 1000% markup and they’ll start by stating that you don’t know if you’re buying tainted stuff or not so first comes the ban then the outlawing. It’s big pharma. You turn lawful individuals into criminals overnight and for what? Prohibition doesn’t work. It’s not very toxic either so making it illegal is misguided at best. Can’t have people feeling good

 

[brownbanana]

You are correct Samson. I only have 2 days under my belt. I only discovered Kratom last week. But I know opiates are hell, which is ironic given 'what you believe on them'. That was a few years in the past for me. I was thinking today, if I would have known about Kramton then. Who knows. That being said, DEA would be putting alot of people at risk.

 

[brownbanana]

USA, Land of the free. So, the government can seize lawful personal property of individuals because they don’t agree with? For a substance that doesn’t cause depression meaning you can’t kill yourself. The FDA stared it filled the same receptors as opiates, just like naltrexone which is used to save overdose patients but of course, they did it to sensationalize it. Kratom is the same to me as marijuana and ephedrine. They might be mildly bad for you, won’t kill you, but they help people and but the govt. doesn’t want you to be able to take your health into your own hands. The nanny state knows best. They’ll turn Kratom into a prescription medication and sell it back to you at a 1000% markup and they’ll start by stating that you don’t know if you’re buying tainted stuff or not so first comes the ban then the outlawing. It’s big pharma. You turn lawful individuals into criminals overnight and for what? Prohibition doesn’t work. It’s not very toxic either so making it illegal is misguided at best. Can’t have people feeling good

I was thinking the same thing. Suicide is another epidemic. Someone will probably jump in and give me shit for saying that.

 

[Massive G]

I don't know much about kratom personally read a lot here and there when it was the craze on the boards, that being said the gov't still shouldn't ban it.

 

[aphextwin]

I know for a fact K has helped many addicts out. I just don't see the big deal.
I ran large amounts of Kratom for several years, and the only side effect coming off was two days of trouble sleeping. Now this being said, my results might NOT be typical.

I was running large amounts of OPMS….depending on the day…30-60 grams daily. I did buy from legit sites.

 

[aphextwin]

What they count as a Kratom death isn’t over dosing. It’s people committing suicide with it in their system which obviously occurred because they were mentally ill.
Sometimes only Kratom shows up in the toxicology report so they blame Kratom for the death which is actually caused by other drugs that aren’t tested for.

I don’t believe Kratom can kill you.

You can't OD from Kratom…If you could, I wouldn't be here. Kratom also doesn't suppress breathing. It's all made up that it kills.

 

[Samson250]

I know for a fact K has helped many addicts out. I just don't see the big deal.
I ran large amounts of Kratom for several years, and the only side effect coming off was two days of trouble sleeping. Now this being said, my results might NOT be typical.

I was running large amounts of OPMS….depending on the day…30-60 grams daily. I did buy from legit sites.

Awwww the high end stuff! OPMS! That couldn’t have been cheap. I like their liquid concentrate shot it’s probably the best. Tastes like lightly toasted shit but effective.
I’ve tried a lot of the OPMS capsules. It’s interesting some packages were only five capsules and some only one. I called them roulette caps because I never new what was going to happen. Sometimes I wouldn’t get anything out of them and other times I ended up sick over the toilet it was weird. My head shops sell them but the price is to high for me. I prefer bread and butter same every time. I use Kratom medicinally I guess you could say.

 

[jcc80]

You can't OD from Kratom…If you could, I wouldn't be here. Kratom also doesn't suppress breathing. It's all made up that it kills.

I think the potent extracts are where people get into trouble. I remember 15 years ago when I discovered this stuff, I remember taking a relatively high dose of extract along with some potent kava kava. As I was laying there nodding off on the couch, I had to remember to take a breath several times. Pretty unpleasant. I stick with the whole herb since then.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[brownbanana]

I have always thought "addicts" is such a one-sided term. I know plenty of people who are addicted to food. And you ask them, why they can't eat healthier, and they say, "I can't help", "I just don't have any control" or they deflect, "I dont have time to eat healthy". And it gets in the way of their life on a daily basis.

I see it either as pleasure or coping. After a surgery, to help cope effectively, opiates are appropriate. Using on a daily basis long-term. That's trouble.

Kratom is a healthier choice. And it is more flexible in application.

Now those guys on Bluelight, those guys are nuts. Not crazier than anyone else, just enthusiasts I suppose. But the amounts are mind blowing.

On a positive note, I have noticed I don't need as much caffeine (which is a drug), desire for alcohol is quite minimal. Almost non-existent. And nicotine has been making me feel sick, which I see as a good thing. Then again, that's one reason opiates were so effective. Those damn opioid receptors. But living and suffering go hand-in-hand. I am still apprehensive of Kratom effects on the personality. But as they say, pick your poison.

Anyway, just thought I would throw that out there. Relating it to the board. It works quite well for pain. My lower back has been killing me lately and foam rolling it was unbearable and inefficient. Not recently. It helps with pain management, it doesn't mask it.

 

[Phidias]

The actual effects of Kratom might be very mild compared to usual opiates (no real "high" so to speak, just a profound sense of well-being and deeply improved mood/mental clarity along with noticeably increased energy), the withdrawal symptoms SOME people experience when coming off after a heavy and extended use (15-20g several times per day non-stop for months/years) are in fact extremely close to what "addicts" of much harsher drugs feel when they have to stop... not only can't you function physically AT ALL for days straight for you're deprived of the least bit of life in you, but the psychological exhaustion/lack of motivation/unbearable anxiety you go through makes it even worse...

I learnt it the hard way, believe me. If you've been a heavy user for quite some time and know you'll have to go somewhere where Kratom is illegal or you simply won't have access to it, plan well in advance (two months at least) the moment you'll come off... otherwise, fooling yourself into thinking you'll still be able to make it no matter what and thus stopping the day before your trip will just be a recipee for disaster.... so much that odds are high you'll have to go back home for you'll feel such a wreck one word only will define you: uselessness. And I mean it.

Everyone of course reacts differently, but be aware that THIS can happen.

Now do I think FDA should ban it? Hell no! A moderate use can and actually will dramatically improve someone's life.

But as with everything of that kind, please, guys, don't take the stuff for granted and consume it too lightly as if it was nothing... cause it's clearly not.

 

[Mike Arnold]

The U.S. consumes some 90% of the world's opioid. That isn't a epidemic?

This isn't something new, the Chinese had a opioid epidemic in the past.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China

As personal as our choice what we do. Free-will. Society has to step in sometimes.

I don't think the government EVER has a right to "step in" and tell me what I can or can't put in my body. Government for the people, not people for the government.

 

[brownbanana]

I don't think the government EVER has a right to "step in" and tell me what I can or can't put in my body. Government for the people, not people for the government.

I don't mean government. It's quite hard to explain. The government isn't real. It's not one person or a single object.

You state, Government for the people. Well what is the government composed of? ... your next door neighbor.

So when I say step in, we aren't alone. We live in a community. If one of our house catches on fire, are we truly alone? I have had it happen. Not my house but I bushes behind my house. Before the first department showed up. There was a dozen people trying to put it out with buckets of water. I didn't even recognize half of them.

Let me clarify that I don't want anybody telling me how to live my life. I disagree with alot of laws. And still break plenty. My morals, ideals and ethics derive from me. And only me. Right and wrong cannot be external from myself. And it really is the individual to truly create his on foundation of Being and how he chooses to live in the world.

But we need some externalized structure of limited authority. Authority is not the best word but that is why I said limited. Otherwise, who will pick up your trash? Who will make sure your water is still running and is drinkable? You can say contractors will, but that is why my they are called contractors, they operate within the system. Will you pay taxes to each and every one of the services you use? Or would you rather pay one central hub and have them deal with it.

Point being is, people make society. Society doesn't make people.

 

[Samson250]

The actual effects of Kratom might be very mild compared to usual opiates (no real "high" so to speak, just a profound sense of well-being and deeply improved mood/mental clarity along with noticeably increased energy), the withdrawal symptoms SOME people experience when coming off after a heavy and extended use (15-20g several times per day non-stop for months/years) are in fact extremely close to what "addicts" of much harsher drugs feel when they have to stop... not only can't you function physically AT ALL for days straight for you're deprived of the least bit of life in you, but the psychological exhaustion/lack of motivation/unbearable anxiety you go through makes it even worse...

I learnt it the hard way, believe me. If you've been a heavy user for quite some time and know you'll have to go somewhere where Kratom is illegal or you simply won't have access to it, plan well in advance (two months at least) the moment you'll come off... otherwise, fooling yourself into thinking you'll still be able to make it no matter what and thus stopping the day before your trip will just be a recipee for disaster.... so much that odds are high you'll have to go back home for you'll feel such a wreck one word only will define you: uselessness. And I mean it.

Everyone of course reacts differently, but be aware that THIS can happen.

Now do I think FDA should ban it? Hell no! A moderate use can and actually will dramatically improve someone's life.

But as with everything of that kind, please, guys, don't take the stuff for granted and consume it too lightly as if it was nothing... cause it's clearly not.

Well said. I hope the trip you went on wasn’t supposed to be a nice vacation and you ended up “sick” the whole time.

I don't think the government EVER has a right to "step in" and tell me what I can or can't put in my body. Government for the people, not people for the government.

Mike this doesn’t have an effect on your product line but it must be intimidating to see the government step in and threaten a businesses livelihood like this especially what the FDA is doing AS WE SPEAK intervening in international shipments coming in even though it is NOT banned or scheduled! They are just taking it!