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For those that deload or cruise their training?

N.L....M.....

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So the issue isn't that the stimulus was over shooting the recovery??? If you need to deload that often I'd be questioning the program.



K were talking deloads here. If you think cruising while deloading is a good idea than we have a whole nother problem.
Cruise in this context is literally another term for deload or time off. Again you don’t know what you think you know.
 

N.L....M.....

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So the issue isn't that the stimulus was over shooting the recovery??? If you need to deload that often I'd be questioning the program.
When you train you’re digging a hole. the hole gets deeper and deeper Everytime you train. If you’re training with proper intensity and overload then you will eventually dig the hole too deep to climb out thus overtrain. There’s more to it than just muscle recovery and cns. You also have joints and ligaments will eventually lead to injuries. Theres a reason your conclusion is different from almost everyone from coach to athlete and I don’t think the answer is that you know more
 

N.L....M.....

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I'm not the one asking for explanations like a five year old though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I wanted to fully understand what you were saying before calling you a dumbass. I was thinking maybe I’m misinterpreting what you were saying. But nope I wasn’t. You sound like a know it all who doesn’t know what you think you know
 

ASAPBlocky

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When you train you’re digging a hole. the hole gets deeper and deeper Everytime you train. If you’re training with proper intensity and overload then you will eventually dig the hole too deep to climb out thus overtrain. There’s more to it than just muscle recovery and cns. You also have joints and ligaments will eventually lead to injuries. Theres a reason your conclusion is different from almost everyone from coach to athlete and I don’t think the answer is that you know more

I just got called stupid by someone who used an analogy of hole digging to explain the endocrines response to training stimulus. Life's weird.
 

comedycentral

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I would go right back to that last week's weight and just try to match your reps.
I just recently did this...8 or 9 days fully off from the gym AND dropping down to cruise dose.

Went back in to Hammer Incline and just wanted to try and MATCH my reps from that last week.
Chances are you'll match or lose a rep but then use that as a new baseline to build from.
Thanks. When I start back I will run the same exercises same weight and try to match reps then run it another 2-3 weeks then swap out.
Thanks.
 

TheOtherOne55

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A deload is to clear fatigue from critical systems, typically hypertrophy blocks dont stress any one system to the point of failure other than the peripheral tissues. You take a week or so with less stimulus and stress just to have to take time to work back to that point.

I understand what you're saying, but every example everyone is giving is about progressive overload. So although IT IS a hypertrophy thing, it also is a CNS strength related issue too.
 

ASAPBlocky

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I understand what you're saying, but every example everyone is giving is about progressive overload. So although IT IS a hypertrophy thing, it also is a CNS strength related issue too.

I challenge you to listen to Mike T of RTS or Dan Green on their issues with deloads. Trust me when I say no one understands nervous system function in athletics like those who design powerlifting programs.
 

DOGGCRAPP

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I always found it hard to make the guys I trained to take any time off (myself included)....
Nowadays I really base a cruise around these paramaters
a) Got a lagging injury that you just know if you ease up on the accelerator it will fix itself
b) Just really have been pushing hard for quite a while and it is just time to maintain for about 7 days and hit it hard again
c) I really try to push people to take short naps after workouts if they can...helps the recovery process immensely (not possible for night time trainers usually but early morning trainers....really helps with building muscle mass and with recovery)

I use my cruises so productively nowadays its unreal. I dont cruise often anymore...maybe once or twice a year now because i really make up the recovery i used to lack sometimes with short naps when i can get them in........but when i cruise i do the following
1) i stay on the exact same bodysplit schedule and I cruise for one week only
2)I only do one exercise per bodypart
3) I raise my reps to about 20 on that one exercise
4) I train at about maybe 75-80% intensity
5) Above all else i will go over every single piece of equipment in my gym at that time in my head pre bed or when on a long drive or a cardio walk and i will think out a new exercise for every single bodypart....that is my goal on a cruise to develop exercises that i can switch to in the future when i am at a strength threshold or if needed switch in this new exercise into the schedule of movements when coming off the present cruise.

I am on a cruise right now....

Sunday was chest and limited triceps and abs so i thought it all out the days prior and did all new exercises
1) Slight incline dumbell press X 20 reps with a 5 second pause in the hole (nothing spectacular...but an option for the future for myself, maybe maybe not because things are going good exercise wise right now)
2) Did a freaking awesome J press/reverse california press exercise i thought out in my head with a cambered U bar X 20 reps.....my training partner was like "holy crap dude....we need to add this"....just a incredible exercise....no doubt this will be added in the future
3) developed a new seated ab exercise on a high incline with a triangle bar....training partner and I felt this was awesome...switching to it right after the cruise

Monday was biceps forearms rear delts and calves
1) did a great low pulley bar curl with a different twiset to it to pivot on the curl...you place a heavy preacher bench on your backside so you can pivot off of it slightly on the curl....really makes a huge difference .....will use that in the future
2) forearms we used a really skinny (like rebar skinny) custom barbell and did reverse curls with it.... also with the preacher bench on the backside to pivot off of.....I dont know if i will use it in the future i need to think about it more
3) rear delts did chest supported row with EZ curl bar but did it by gripping the plates instead of the bar parallel and rowing it high...it was allright, Ill pass on this one....i got better ones in to go to ...worth the experiment
4) Did a thing I decided to call "chasing the jackass" on a standing calf raise where training partner has to go right after me and we do 10 reps back and forth with 40 pound jumps until failure......Ill pass....it was ok but i got better exercises and it came to me that my training partner followed my lead on these so i was the "jackass"

Tuesday Quads hams adductors

1) Experimented with deep box squats on smith machine for 20 reps....it was ok....something to think about in the future in case im at a loss on exercises but im good right now
2) Took about 30 minutes or experimentation and had to think out a hamstring exercise that is akin to a single leg glute bridge that is weighted and it was freaking brutal.....absolutely will use this in the future as its about as close to a flat dumbell bench press for chest but instead for the hamstrings as there is....brutally sore from these and i didnt even train that hard
3) Tried my best to make a new adductor exercise work but just couldnt get it to work the way i wanted it to work so I will nix that one....Hey they dont always come to fruition but the 40% of the time when they do work out.....is incredible. All these weird exercises you have seen me or guys I trained do over the years (rack chins, DC rows, on and on etc etc) they all came from cruises and me thinking things out of new exercises

Thursday will be
Shoulders Triceps abs and I already got the new shoulder movement i want to try with a U bar, still working the tricep one out, have the ab one down

Friday will be Back width, Back thickness, limited biceps, calves (working it all out in my head)

You know that chest exercise that you think "man those always work for me" and you always go back to them....or that tricep exercise which is your "bread and butter" and always gets the job done? When you figure out key exercises for every single bodypart just like those ones you know work and work well....you will be 10 steps ahead of the game. Staying with exercises that you have proven to yourself HAVE not worked...is death in bodybuilding. Thats what 90% of my cruises are about....and the other 10% is just resetting myself to make a big push again
 

TheOtherOne55

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I challenge you to listen to Mike T of RTS or Dan Green on their issues with deloads. Trust me when I say no one understands nervous system function in athletics like those who design powerlifting programs.

I understand that. I PLed before i did any bodybuilding stuff and truly understand that they are completely different beats. MUCH more listening to your body when it comes to PLing training. Your program realllly needs to be understood as you cant just push until you cant push anymore.

I rarely deload with bodybuilding, I'm just stating that when BBers are trying to get strong, more PLing principles come into play when it comes to cruising and deloading.
 

brutus69

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Periodization for hypertrophy is typically not necessary. In this context taking a step back doesn't work towards taking a step forward unless you were heavily over trained, at least physiological stand point. Honestly how you feel and how you look and perform are hardly related.
except its proven to work. the question is, should u time it to cruise on a cycle, or stay juiced during the deload week/weeks?
 

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ASAPBlocky

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I understand that. I PLed before i did any bodybuilding stuff and truly understand that they are completely different beats. MUCH more listening to your body when it comes to PLing training. Your program realllly needs to be understood as you cant just push until you cant push anymore.

I rarely deload with bodybuilding, I'm just stating that when BBers are trying to get strong, more PLing principles come into play when it comes to cruising and deloading.

That's actually the exact opposite of what they say. Listening to your body in the practical sense isn't a key indicator.
 

ASAPBlocky

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except its proven to work. the question is, should u time it to cruise on a cycle, or stay juiced during the deload week/weeks?

I actually hired dr scott and dusty for this exact question. They both advised to not deload and cruise at the same time though I had direct evidence I couldn't hold my size or strength that way.
 

TheOtherOne55

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That's actually the exact opposite of what they say. Listening to your body in the practical sense isn't a key indicator.

You're speaking about 2 ELITE lifter's beliefs. Two guys who probably genetically can train through anything, so you're right they cannot just go off of feel. The other 98% of guys, still probably need to listen to their body.
Two elite lifter's ideas are not the commonly held belief in the entire PLing community.
 

Biggerp73

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If I don't deload for a session after hitting a PR, I usually get weaker
 

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