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For those who do 2 or 4 week cycles

pesty4077

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Just curious has anyone done this approach here. I am currently trying the 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. That means completely off everything except nolvadex and GH. Just wondering if doing insulin on the off weeks would be fine or would it be better on the 4 week cycles? Trying to do a different approach with health in mind. My strength is good the 4 weeks off too. Just looking for some honest feedback.
 

luki7788

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Honestly? let's think how much we can actually build muscle in 4 weeks. 90% of what we catch will be glycogen and fullness but not real muscles because they take time. It would still make sense if 4 weeks were on long esters, then during "off" the drugs continue to work only the concentration slowly drops - I saw a similar approach in Russians. This is old school - 3 weeks on high doses of long esters and 3 weeks "off" and repeat, with insulin and gh being administered nonstop.
 

Elvia1023

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There are so many variables to this. I don't really think short cycles are generally healthier especially if going on/off constantly. There is only so much muscle you can build in a few weeks as well. Depending upon the cycle layout many could not inject for a few weeks but they are on the entire time due to the steroid/ester used. With this will come constant up's and down's which can result in more side effects. I also know you don't use high doses and take low ones and I think to get the most bang out of a short cycle you need to use fairly high doses which defeats the health reasons why you started such a protocol.

Again there are so many variables and all systems can be effective but I would recommend a constant TRT dose and just to move up and down in dose for short cycles throughout the year. By short cycles anywhere from 3-8 weeks and not come completely off at any point. Coming off at your age is not a healthy thing to do after years of aas usage.

I have always recommended adding in certain aids during off/low periods to maintain or even gain whilst your recover/stabilize your sex hormones. Insulin is one of these aids and can be used to great effect. Although it can be used during any period and I would recommend using it during some short term blast cycles and also during some off/low periods. Just ensure you take breaks between usage and keep insulin sensitivity high at all times. Other aids that can be used during off periods could include hgh, mk-677, creatine, inj l-carnitine and igf-1 lr3 etc.
 

nothuman

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This study seems relevant here

 

MR. BMJ

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Yep, this has been debated going back to the late 90's, and again for a second wave in the mid-2000's. Animal used to call them the Fangowango cycles back in the day. The debate back in the day was whether or not you could recover with the 2-on/2-off , and similar for 4-on/4-off. The Minto study showed us that it was not possible, even at small doses. However, it depends on the context of why you want to follow such a plan....if it's to back off the sauce similar to a shortened blast/cruise (and thus let health/labs normalize), it could work, but I still have my doubts when it comes to complete recovery, especially as we age after long-term use. There are many ways it can be structured....orals and 'quick acting' injects during the "on" period, then 'off' for a break or trt to let labs/health improve some......or long esters (and orals) at elevated levels for the "on" part, then no more injects/orals and let the esters fade out during the "off" period, as Luki mentioned. I think we just had a thread on this where we also talked about the old member RealGains....not sure how long back or what thread it was, but I remember a link and quick mention by Homon.

Here is the Minto study:
 

Fit2Serve

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if i am not mistaken u r on trt right pesty? so i dont get why dropping EVERYTHING. stay on at least trt
keep ur test at 150-250mg (whatever dose u r healthy at) and blast 4 weeks of other things on and off
basic blast and cruise just shorter duration
-F
 

w8tlifterty

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Hernon at one point had me doing 3on 3off if I remember correctly many, many years ago. It was a nice break from pinning and it was long esters so I was never truly off but seemed to be as effective as the usual course of action, only much less gear and I would imagine it being a slightly healthier approach? I was young and dumb and didn't get blood work back then but I do remember doing it for quite some time. I do it instinctually now, on trt. Just get tired of the jabs and will take weeks off from time to time.
 

TheOtherOne55

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The question to me isn't CAN YOU RECOVER. We've seen mixed results with this.
The bigger question is, can you grow any appreciable amount of muscle this way.
IMO, no. Muscle takes takes tiiiime to grow. Those first 2-4 weeks is glycogen and fluid. Its like a glorified oral run.
Just my 2 cents. I tried this for a couple years in my 20s.
 

FrancisK

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I’ve done it and I didn’t get results from it like I would form longer cycles. There is definitely a point of diminishing returns but I don’t think it’s anywhere near 4 weeks. Of course that is not to say it doesn’t work but it’s just not as effective from my expierence.

What is the specific reasoning for it as far as your health? Just the idea of taking more time off?
 

TripppleP

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Back in the day on Freakz online they called them SHICs, short high intensity cycles. I largest I ever had been was dong 6 weeks test prop, NPP with 4 weeks 50mg d-bol. I didn't keep much from that but then again I did not repeat this over and over again like the OP is planning.
 

MR. BMJ

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If you read the Minto study you will see that a measly 100mg injection dropped test levels significantly, and they stayed suppressed for over 32 days. This was just from a small 1 time dosage, which is going to be WAY less than that anybody here would take doing a 2-on-2-off, or 4-on-4-off. Depending on how you structure the drugs, If you push the gas for those 2-4 weeks, you should still have significant hormone by the next time you push the gas, so if you follow it long-term with training and eating, you should gain size. I don't see this as an optimal way of going about size, but it can work. It depends on how you set up the drugs and their amounts....then if you are also going to go back down to low trt levels and prevent further crashing. I've known guys who liked this set-up, and some were well-built.
 

pesty4077

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If you read the Minto study you will see that a measly 100mg injection dropped test levels significantly, and they stayed suppressed for over 32 days. This was just from a small 1 time dosage, which is going to be WAY less than that anybody here would take doing a 2-on-2-off, or 4-on-4-off. Depending on how you structure the drugs, If you push the gas for those 2-4 weeks, you should still have significant hormone by the next time you push the gas, so if you follow it long-term with training and eating, you should gain size. I don't see this as an optimal way of going about size, but it can work. It depends on how you set up the drugs and their amounts....then if you are also going to go back down to low trt levels and prevent further crashing. I've known guys who liked this set-up, and some were well-built.

For some odd reason, I can't get the link to work
 

MR. BMJ

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For some odd reason, I can't get the link to work
Hmmm....the link has the full study, but here is the abstract:

If you can access this site, it is about 11 studies down in the box below, on the AAS aisle (look for "Pharmacokentics and Pharmacodynamics of Nandrolone esters in oil volume.pdf Minto":

The afboard site is defunct now, but if you see the "MAXIMILIAN FREI MEMORIAL LIBRARY" on the main page, it should take you to the link above with the Minto study.
 

Stonewall58

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Honestly? let's think how much we can actually build muscle in 4 weeks. 90% of what we catch will be glycogen and fullness but not real muscles because they take time. It would still make sense if 4 weeks were on long esters, then during "off" the drugs continue to work only the concentration slowly drops - I saw a similar approach in Russians. This is old school - 3 weeks on high doses of long esters and 3 weeks "off" and repeat, with insulin and gh being administered nonstop.
Russians did 20 days on 10 days off and in the “off” periods training was also decreased 50%. Personally I felt it had worked well put into practice for powerlifters. 21 days on 7 days off is the approach I’d advise lifters back in the day and they consistently hit world records in the APF back then. Personally it was my fav way to run my own drug programs. * im only recently getting back after a few year layoff
 

OuchThatHurts

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Russians did 20 days on 10 days off and in the “off” periods training was also decreased 50%. Personally I felt it had worked well put into practice for powerlifters. 21 days on 7 days off is the approach I’d advise lifters back in the day and they consistently hit world records in the APF back then. Personally it was my fav way to run my own drug programs. * im only recently getting back after a few year layoff
I'm not sure who invented or used this method but I do remember a few radical cycles back in the 90's, blitz cycles. The idea was to blast yourself 10 wks (until your bloodwork went south likely lol) then off until health improved and right back to it.

Apparantly, there was believed by some that there was some kind of magic up there in those megadoses. I'm talking 2 grams test, 1.5g nandrolone per week, 100mg dbol a day, where receptor density increase was massive enough to actually allow hypertrophy, myosatellite cell activation, etc in that short of time. I tried to google around but can't find it. It might even be on this site. All I found was this image. I do remember not long ago it was not uncommon to hear people say the were doing 600-800mg of tren. These were regular normal trustworthy dudes.

I always liked ramping up the compounds. Not dosages but compounds over 6 months. Test only for 2 months, than boom add in the deca (although Tren was better for me because I needed so little), 2 months later boom add the dbol or drol in week 6. Retained a boatload of water but the strength was awesome.

Cycles-300x295.png
 

heavyhitter

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I'm not sure who invented or used this method but I do remember a few radical cycles back in the 90's, blitz cycles. The idea was to blast yourself 10 wks (until your bloodwork went south likely lol) then off until health improved and right back to it.

Apparantly, there was believed by some that there was some kind of magic up there in those megadoses. I'm talking 2 grams test, 1.5g nandrolone per week, 100mg dbol a day, where receptor density increase was massive enough to actually allow hypertrophy, myosatellite cell activation, etc in that short of time. I tried to google around but can't find it. It might even be on this site. All I found was this image. I do remember not long ago it was not uncommon to hear people say the were doing 600-800mg of tren. These were regular normal trustworthy dudes.

I always liked ramping up the compounds. Not dosages but compounds over 6 months. Test only for 2 months, than boom add in the deca (although Tren was better for me because I needed so little), 2 months later boom add the dbol or drol in week 6. Retained a boatload of water but the strength was awesome.

View attachment 132956
I cycle pretty much just like this. I run longer cycles. I always have high test in there and then as the cycle progresses I’ll add a new compound, then in a few weeks increase the dose, then add another compound.....and so on until gains stall and then I’ll hold that weight for a bit and then cruise
 

heavyhitter

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Just curious has anyone done this approach here. I am currently trying the 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. That means completely off everything except nolvadex and GH. Just wondering if doing insulin on the off weeks would be fine or would it be better on the 4 week cycles? Trying to do a different approach with health in mind. My strength is good the 4 weeks off too. Just looking for some honest feedback.
I feel like if you’re doing this and trying to keep health in mind...,I’d rather see you using the insulin on the blasts, and then dropping it on the cruise. Come completely off everything to try and reset as opposed to keeping something exogenous in there and possibly hampering this
 

maldorf

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I'm not sure who invented or used this method but I do remember a few radical cycles back in the 90's, blitz cycles. The idea was to blast yourself 10 wks (until your bloodwork went south likely lol) then off until health improved and right back to it.

Apparantly, there was believed by some that there was some kind of magic up there in those megadoses. I'm talking 2 grams test, 1.5g nandrolone per week, 100mg dbol a day, where receptor density increase was massive enough to actually allow hypertrophy, myosatellite cell activation, etc in that short of time. I tried to google around but can't find it. It might even be on this site. All I found was this image. I do remember not long ago it was not uncommon to hear people say the were doing 600-800mg of tren. These were regular normal trustworthy dudes.

I always liked ramping up the compounds. Not dosages but compounds over 6 months. Test only for 2 months, than boom add in the deca (although Tren was better for me because I needed so little), 2 months later boom add the dbol or drol in week 6. Retained a boatload of water but the strength was awesome.

View attachment 132956
Paul Borrenson was one that discussed that method and used it himself.
 

pesty4077

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I feel like if you’re doing this and trying to keep health in mind...,I’d rather see you using the insulin on the blasts, and then dropping it on the cruise. Come completely off everything to try and reset as opposed to keeping something exogenous in there and possibly hampering this

Just for the record, to me it was the worse way to cycle. You put all that size on in 4 weeks, just to lose it in the next 4 weeks. You are better off lower doses for a longer extended time. That is my opinion.
 

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