Glycogen stores......how much depletes them?

[Amazon Doll]

We all know that PWO shakes should have enough fast acting carbs to shuttle nutrients & protein to the muscles via an insulin spike as well as replace or start to replace muscle glycogen lost during a workout for better recovery.

This has me wondering how much glycogen stores are lost through various forms of exercise?

How much glycogen can the muscles actually store?

How fast can someone who is totally glycogen depleted, rebuild stores in the muscle? How many grams of carbs does this take?

I know that all the answeres are going to be based on many various factors, like how much muscle a person has and that sort of think.

Is there anyone that knows this stuff or knows how to find it?

 

[thedonker]

We all know that PWO shakes should have enough fast acting carbs to shuttle nutrients & protein to the muscles via an insulin spike as well as replace or start to replace muscle glycogen lost during a workout for better recovery.

This has me wondering how much glycogen stores are lost through various forms of exercise?

How much glycogen can the muscles actually store?

How fast can someone who is totally glycogen depleted, rebuild stores in the muscle? How many grams of carbs does this take?

I know that all the answeres are going to be based on many various factors, like how much muscle a person has and that sort of think.

Is there anyone that knows this stuff or knows how to find it?

I have some of this info in one of my books in my libary I will try and dig it out for you, again this all depends on the individual, but I think I have some guide figures. I will try and get back asap.

 

[rmtt]

I remember in Dan Duchaine's Body Opus book, he went into specific numbers for that when following a keto type diet. It was for use on the weekends during carb ups.

Sadly, I lost the book in one of my moves.

 

[oldfella]

The actual muscle glycogen is a very fast burning short lived fuel. Our bodies are in a constant state of use and replenishment. it is not until the muscle is under stress or load that the depletion is much faster. Now having that in mind when you take a set to musclualr failure you have basically spent all of the stored glycogen in that perticular muscle group. Fortunately for us we can restore about 50% of this very quickly. around 2-5 minutes. Now this is where it gets interesting. The remaining glygogen replenishment process can take anywhere from 24-36 hours. This is to refill, so to speak, all of the muscle glycogen back to it's 100% level. This may depend on your level of training and experience. This is why, and I'm about to touch some nerves here, I believe there is a much bigger window of oppurtunity than many believe. I do not subscribe to the "you only have xxx minutes or hours to get your carbs in" theories. As long as you get nutrition happening at some stage after your trianing it really does not matter, that much. Now what happens on extreme low carb diets? Why does it make no difference? This is because your body will produce the required amounts of glycogen from proteins and fats in the absense of carbs. So don't sweat it! Just get your nutrients in as soon as is practical after your training.

 

[mike1107]

The actual muscle glycogen is a very fast burning short lived fuel. Our bodies are in a constant state of use and replenishment. it is not until the muscle is under stress or load that the depletion is much faster. Now having that in mind when you take a set to musclualr failure you have basically spent all of the stored glycogen in that perticular muscle group. Fortunately for us we can restore about 50% of this very quickly. around 2-5 minutes. Now this is where it gets interesting. The remaining glygogen replenishment process can take anywhere from 24-36 hours. This is to refill, so to speak, all of the muscle glycogen back to it's 100% level. This may depend on your level of training and experience. This is why, and I'm about to touch some nerves here, I believe there is a much bigger window of oppurtunity than many believe. I do not subscribe to the "you only have xxx minutes or hours to get your carbs in" theories. As long as you get nutrition happening at some stage after your trianing it really does not matter, that much. Now what happens on extreme low carb diets? Why does it make no difference? This is because your body will produce the required amounts of glycogen from proteins and fats in the absense of carbs. So don't sweat it! Just get your nutrients in as soon as is practical after your training.

I totally second that !

even if there is this "magic hour" post training, the 24 hours post training are as important as this anabolic window ....

 

[Amazon Doll]

Thanks Donker...keep me posted if you find anything

Oldfella, you are not only handsome but smart too!!! woo! woo!

rmtt, I will see if I can get my hands on Dan's book.

I guess my area of interest is in the 50% that is left after the immediate replenishing that the body takes care of in the first few minutes.

My training has shifted more towards "fight training" so I am doing quite a bit of aerobic & anaerobioc work as well as lifting and just want to understand the timing that is going on.

I have tried googling various terms without much luck, maybe some of you know various terms I should be searching

 

[oldfella]

Thanks Donker...keep me posted if you find anything

Oldfella, you are not only handsome but smart too!!! woo! woo!

rmtt, I will see if I can get my hands on Dan's book.

I guess my area of interest is in the 50% that is left after the immediate replenishing that the body takes care of in the first few minutes.My training has shifted more towards "fight training" so I am doing quite a bit of aerobic & anaerobioc work as well as lifting and just want to understand the timing that is going on.

I have tried googling various terms without much luck, maybe some of you know various terms I should be searching

There is no 50% left after the intial depletion. When you take a muscle group to failure that is exactly what you have done, spent all of the stored glycogen in that muscle. But because our bodies have a way of replenishing partially the glycogen used in an almost immeadiate time it may seem like we have a reserve or something. Now lucky for us we can not deplete all of the glycogen from all of our muscle at once or we would be in big trouble. So our system makes an adjust ment and brings other muscle groups into play. There are alternate energy pathways the body can use to keep us going. The key to some of that lies in the slow twitch or endurance fibres. Not as strong or as big but will sustain us long enough until the fast twitch fibres recover suffiently. Now in the fight or flight response to danger or stress adrenaline takes over here and the muscle can then be pushed well beyond normal limits and even to the brink of self destruction. Because the adrenaline dulls the nerves and exhibits a greater muscular contraction than we are capable of normally. Most accident victims or violent crime victims sustain further injury to themselves by way of muscle damage in trying to get further out of danger or in the act of self preservation.......LIKE FIGHTING!

 

[bulldog21]

The actual muscle glycogen is a very fast burning short lived fuel. Our bodies are in a constant state of use and replenishment. it is not until the muscle is under stress or load that the depletion is much faster. Now having that in mind when you take a set to musclualr failure you have basically spent all of the stored glycogen in that perticular muscle group. Fortunately for us we can restore about 50% of this very quickly. around 2-5 minutes. Now this is where it gets interesting. The remaining glygogen replenishment process can take anywhere from 24-36 hours. This is to refill, so to speak, all of the muscle glycogen back to it's 100% level. This may depend on your level of training and experience. This is why, and I'm about to touch some nerves here, I believe there is a much bigger window of oppurtunity than many believe. I do not subscribe to the "you only have xxx minutes or hours to get your carbs in" theories. As long as you get nutrition happening at some stage after your trianing it really does not matter, that much. Now what happens on extreme low carb diets? Why does it make no difference? This is because your body will produce the required amounts of glycogen from proteins and fats in the absense of carbs. So don't sweat it! Just get your nutrients in as soon as is practical after your training.

You touched on my nerve!!! If you read my shake thread you would know the exact window of carb opportunity!! LOL...

This is a good post oldfella I agree with your statements in it...

 

[oldfella]

You touched on my nerve!!! If you read my shake thread you would know the exact window of carb opportunity!! LOL...

This is a good post oldfella I agree with your statements in it...

Yea i need some new batteries for my timex!!! I missed my PWO the other day by 16.92983333333 seconds. Wrecked my whole day! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[A50#]

I remember in Dan Duchaine's Body Opus book, he went into specific numbers for that when following a keto type diet. It was for use on the weekends during carb ups.

Sadly, I lost the book in one of my moves.

I still cherish my mint condition copy of BodyOpus

Glucose supercompensation, carbing up should be reached in 30 hrs following this formula:

16g carbs X your lean bodyweight in kg.

Duchaine goes onto say that anymore than the 16g rule of thumb doesnt provide more glycogen loading it only provides to more fat storage.

 

[Amazon Doll]

thanks

I really need to find a copy of that book

 

[NY Muscle]

I still cherish my mint condition copy of BodyOpus

Glucose supercompensation, carbing up should be reached in 30 hrs following this formula:

16g carbs X your lean bodyweight in kg.

Duchaine goes onto say that anymore than the 16g rule of thumb doesnt provide more glycogen loading it only provides to more fat storage.

I still have the book and thank God I did not follow his guidlines too long, I actually got up every few hrs at night to drink carbs - way too much spill over, turns out it wasn't needed and probably echos oldfella's statements that all these carbs do not have to be consumed ASAP after training, depletion, etc.

Loved the book though and the rebirth of a CKD after it...

 

[Amazon Doll]

Thanks for all the info guys.

Sounds like Body Opus has quite a bit of the information I am looking for. There are quite a few copies of it for sale at Amazon, so I ordered one.

Thanks again

 

[Amazon Doll]

I bought Dan's book Body Opus and Lyle's book UD2

tons of great info and I'm going to give Lyles UD2 a try for a few weeks and see how I do on it compaired to just doing a lower carb type diet wit one refeed day per week. I like how he works the training into the diet. Curious to how my body responds.

 

[MilitaryMuscle]

Table 2: Amount of glycogen depleted for sets of differing lengths
Length of set (seconds) Glycogen depleted (mmol/kg)
30 10
40 14
50 17
60 21
70 24
80 28
90 31


30 mmol/kg divided by 5.56 = ~5 grams of carbohydrates to replace 30 mmol of glycogen

got this off lyle mcdonald ketogenic diet book.

 

[wakejump4me]

30 mmol/kg divided by 5.56 = ~5 grams of carbohydrates to replace 30 mmol of glycogen

got this off lyle mcdonald ketogenic diet book.

don't you love ''MY'' BOOKMARKS ?


wake

 

[Amazon Doll]

I guess what I was looking for was how much exercise or days it would take to deplete and it seems like 2 back to back full body hi rep workouts with some cardio thrown in will doing zero carb is what it takes and another 24+ hours to replenish.

Acording to that table, I did an hours worth of circuit training with minimal rest between sets, but even if I said a set took 30 secon and another 30 seconds to transition to the next set, then I did an hour of 70% intensity cardio..... I lost 900mmol/kg

but I have absolutly no idea what that means

 

[MilitaryMuscle]

don't you love ''MY'' BOOKMARKS ?


wake

What are you talking about? Cough* Cough*

 

[Sesshomaru]

Lyle's UD2 is an AMAZING book and I highly recommend it to anyone (natty or otherwise) to give it a try if you meet the specifications outlined in it.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I guess what I was looking for was how much exercise or days it would take to deplete and it seems like 2 back to back full body hi rep workouts with some cardio thrown in will doing zero carb is what it takes and another 24+ hours to replenish.

Acording to that table, I did an hours worth of circuit training with minimal rest between sets, but even if I said a set took 30 secon and another 30 seconds to transition to the next set, then I did an hour of 70% intensity cardio..... I lost 900mmol/kg

but I have absolutly no idea what that means

150g carbs