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thethinker48

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Other than high bp what causes this decrease in ejection fraction from steroid use? Like if your bp is controlled but you are still blasting can the steroids themselves reduce the EF via another pathway?

High enough doses of androgens and GH can contribute to cardiomyopathy irrespective of BP readings. The high BP is also present without pharm intervention in majority of people throttling the gas.

There are examples of folks on here who developed low EF and HF mega dosing GH with androgens. Some have developed it using not such "insane" dosages

I know the famous advice of "take as much GH as you can afford" from a former Mr. O might have practical applications in bbing for some folks, but it's not quite as safe as most people originally thought in the past

Just gotta decide where one wants to draw the line, and be ok with possible risks associated with one's decisions
 

Bleed

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My understanding is that cod liver oil has more A and D and a bit less of the omega 3's and the fish oil is more omega 3s and less A and D.

I dont think I can say Cod liver oil is the "better" option necessarily just that I dropped Vitamin A from my supplementation and its probably the most A I am getting in my diet.

I should have said I recommend Nordic naturals and I take their cod liver oil. Carlsons is good as well. There may be others that are worth the price but it's one supplement where going with a reputable brand is a good idea. Ive basically whittled down the brands of supplements I will buy to about 10 at this point due to reputation, testing, and consumer reports.

I started looking into algae recently but dont know enough one way or the other to comment on it.

Interesting you mentioned Nordic naturals cod liver oil. How is it different from Nordic fish oil? How do they both compare and why do you think cod oil is a better option?
 

Killer.7

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High enough doses of androgens and GH can contribute to cardiomyopathy irrespective of BP readings. The high BP is also present without pharm intervention in majority of people throttling the gas.

There are examples of folks on here who developed low EF and HF mega dosing GH with androgens. Some have developed it using not such "insane" dosages

I know the famous advice of "take as much GH as you can afford" from a former Mr. O might have practical applications in bbing for some folks, but it's not quite as safe as most people originally thought in the past

Just gotta decide where one wants to draw the line, and be ok with possible risks associated with one's decisions
Yeah i never did insane doses but certainly used over an extended period of time.

Decade +


like I said im off clean everything now besides my trt. Do you guys think I can boost my EF back into the 50% range? My nuclear scan said my heart was looking good and functioning good. No signs of cell death or clogs. EKG was also good.
 

maldorf

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Yeah i never did insane doses but certainly used over an extended period of time.

Decade +


like I said im off clean everything now besides my trt. Do you guys think I can boost my EF back into the 50% range? My nuclear scan said my heart was looking good and functioning good. No signs of cell death or clogs. EKG was also good.
I think you have a great shot at it. The big challenge is going to be staying off the juice so that the cardiomyopathy doesn't come back again. We've had guys on here that went back on and later died. I went back on and nearly died.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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Great way to supplement magnesium.

Magnapower Powder, each 5 grams servings contains 400 mg of caffeine. Having been bonded to creatine I conjecture that it will have less effect on stool consistency, which my anecdotal experience reinforces.

Search for the powder via Swanson Vitamins.

Good Vibes, Best Regards and Support.
 

Killer.7

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I think you have a great shot at it. The big challenge is going to be staying off the juice so that the cardiomyopathy doesn't come back again. We've had guys on here that went back on and later died. I went back on and nearly died.
I have 2 kids , bodybuilding is behind me. I just wanna be able to stay healthy and be fit / look half decent.

if i can recover my EF i will be very happy.
I finished my last blast at the end of april and did this nuclear scan middle of may. Could that blast have impacted my scan results?
 

maldorf

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I have 2 kids , bodybuilding is behind me. I just wanna be able to stay healthy and be fit / look half decent.

if i can recover my EF i will be very happy.
I finished my last blast at the end of april and did this nuclear scan middle of may. Could that blast have impacted my scan results?
Yes. The effects will last a long time too. I asked my cardiologist about the effects of anabolic steroids on cardiac cells and he talked about how the metabolism of the cells is altered for some time. Certainly get excess hypertrophy and the walls of the heart become more stiff. The walls don't stretch as well and movement is reduced, diskinesia. Starlings effect certainly greatly reduced during exercise.

If yours is like mine, it's going to take almost 1 year to recover. I had a few echocardiograms done along my journey that 1 year and you could watch it go up slowly. I felt better too as I went along.
 

Killer.7

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Yes. The effects will last a long time too. I asked my cardiologist about the effects of anabolic steroids on cardiac cells and he talked about how the metabolism of the cells is altered for some time. Certainly get excess hypertrophy and the walls of the heart become more stiff. The walls don't stretch as well and movement is reduced, diskinesia. Starlings effect certainly greatly reduced during exercise.

If yours is like mine, it's going to take almost 1 year to recover. I had a few echocardiograms done along my journey that 1 year and you could watch it go up slowly. I felt better too as I went along.
Ya the plan sounds like 1 echo every 3 months or so. I have been reading some sites say cardio will not fix low EF and some sites say cardio will help fix low EF. Thoughts ?
 

prodaf

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High enough doses of androgens and GH can contribute to cardiomyopathy irrespective of BP readings. The high BP is also present without pharm intervention in majority of people throttling the gas.

There are examples of folks on here who developed low EF and HF mega dosing GH with androgens. Some have developed it using not such "insane" dosages

I know the famous advice of "take as much GH as you can afford" from a former Mr. O might have practical applications in bbing for some folks, but it's not quite as safe as most people originally thought in the past

Just gotta decide where one wants to draw the line, and be ok with possible risks associated with one's decisions
I d like to know how is EF of PRO IFBB with mega dosing o_O
 

maldorf

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Ya the plan sounds like 1 echo every 3 months or so. I have been reading some sites say cardio will not fix low EF and some sites say cardio will help fix low EF. Thoughts ?
I have not proof, but I know with me after my heart attack I definitely felt better after exercising for a few months. After about 1 year of exercise my EF went up from about 20% to 25%. I cant say for certain that it was all due to exercise or even partly due. I just know I feel better while I am exercising and my heart failure symptoms are lessened. There are times I got sick or injured something and went a few weeks without exercise and I would feel like shit by the end. Start exercising and feel better within a few weeks. I know its not all psychological because my blood pressure drops, resting heart rate slows, and EF went up in the beginning. I think if your resting heart rate goes down then that means that your stroke volume has gone up. Stroke volume is directly proportional to ejection fraction. So there is that. When you have cardiomyopathy, your heart rate will go up to compensate for the lower stroke volume/Ejection Fraction.

What is your resting heart rate? When I first got diagnosed with cardiomyopathy, years before my heart attack, my resting heart rate in bed after waking up was around 105 BPM!
 

maldorf

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I d like to know how is EF of PRO IFBB with mega dosing o_O
My guess is that a lot of them have a low ejection fraction and dont even know it. Ive watched many of them on youtube and even on camera you can see them breathing hard just walking across the room, and having to breathe a lot during normal conversation.
 

Killer.7

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My resting heart rate currently is 75ish i wanna get that down too. Like i said before i dont have any symptoms with regards to fatigue or inability to train hard
 

Killer.7

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Does anyone have links to matt porter threads or info where he documents boosting his EF??
 

Killer.7

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Thread update.

Going for my follow up echo on the 22nd. Been following the supplement regime that has been posted here. Added Carditone and upped my dose of telmasartan from '40mgs to 80mgs. BP now reads around 118/70 120/70 with the usual flux. I also managed to get my resting heart rate to below 70. Now sits in the mid 60s

Upped my cardio big time as well. My weight as dropped from 230 to the low 220's

also did some hormonal bloods. This is on my trt dose

Estradiol118<162pmol/L
Testosterone27.38.4 - 28.8nmol/L
 

NGL34

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If you don't mind me asking, why did they want to do an echo in 2016 and now this most recent stress test?
 

Killer.7

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If you don't mind me asking, why did they want to do an echo in 2016 and now this most recent stress test?

“They” did not want anything. I did the echo in 2016 on my own volition. Same with this most recent nuclear scan.
 

Bio

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Killer.7

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I second this! It has so many incredible properties!!
Does anyone have any reliable brands / types of curcumin I can use? I read most curcumin does not absorb well when taken orally.
 

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