Herrnon, Ry, A...can you elaborate on this GH question.

jlm25 · May 22, 2016

Mike Arnold said:
Although there are still some unanswered questions regarding the different methods of GH administration, the person's goals will largely determine which method is ideal. This means there is no single best way to take GH simply because different dosing patterns will produce different results, especially in terms of fat loss. This is a fairly complex subject, but as you said...a very interesting one. However, to really make this a viable thread (in terms of providing new information), we would need to address a bunch of different variables within the context of goal attainment. This would require a considerable time investment by those participating.

What methods have you seen used in terms of adding size that work well?

Massive G · May 22, 2016

Mike Arnold said:
Although there are still some unanswered questions regarding the different methods of GH administration, the person's goals will largely determine which method is ideal. This means there is no single best way to take GH simply because different dosing patterns will produce different results, especially in terms of fat loss. This is a fairly complex subject, but as you said...a very interesting one. However, to really make this a viable thread (in terms of providing new information), we would need to address a bunch of different variables within the context of goal attainment. This would require a considerable time investment by those participating.

I definitely agree on that.
I have always said that GH works if you inject into your toes upside down.

My personal experience is that I never tried GH until I had been bodybuilding for over 12 years. The flavor of the time was 5 on 2 off which made no sense to me. Dosing recommendations were all over the place too. I in 2003 finally took the plunge, a friend had access to seros from AIDS patients (sounds terrible but it is what it is) I started at 6 ius per day post work out, and with in 3 weeks I wanted to kill myself.

I had the most god awful nerve pain, I couldn't close my hands I could grip the bars, I was up and down all night felt like a torch and knives burning couldn't shake it loose. So I started skipping days EOD it got a little better, than tried every third day finally and had virtually no sides except muscle and strength especially when taken after a workout with insulin.
I'd gain 18 solid pounds and keep it. Thought I found the missing link to a pro card cause I broke the 300 lb barrier with abs. - but oh there is soo much more to that as we know.
so for pure mass I'd take it ETD, at 18 -21 iu's so 42 ius a week about the same as 6 ius a day but so much easier.

You are correct as there are many ways to take the GH for fat loss, longevity, mass, and tissue healing..my favorite for mass was infrequent dosing with 2 large dose a week, well large back then...now everyone seems to think 20 ius a day is common.

We didn't even touch the other aspect of GH - the brands. I have no idea what the best stuff is now as far as generics as I don't follow it... I took the real HYGES and RIPS 2011 - 2012? and they were on par with the seros although the cardiac effects were different strong heart beats and raised pulse rate.
I did get Jintropins straight from the factory too back in 2004, and took them on and off with seros and they burnt me up, no water retention and the fat melted off on a bulking diet.

I still think the most effective dosing schedule for AAS which is the most dangerous is fast acting esters in and out around the time of the work out .
When I took orals I always took them once a day and sometimes in the case of drol EOD.

People all talk about even blood levels but if you are constantly saturating the receptors with any hormone it becomes highly ineffective.
Best example in the real world is insulin, look a what the world has created type 2 diabetes which left untreated goes full blown.
These people are constantly bombarding their cells with insulin and they just don't react 100% anymore- and bodybuilders are no different with steroids insulin and GH.

RamboStallone · May 23, 2016

Massive G said:
I definitely agree on that.
I have always said that GH works if you inject into your toes upside down. My personal experience is that I never tried GH until I had been bodybuilding for over 12 years. The flavor of the time was 5 on 2 off which made no sense to me. Dosing recommendations were all over the place too. I in 2003 finally took the plunge, a friend had access to seros from AIDS patients (sounds terrible but it is what it is) I started at 6 ius per day post work out, and with in 3 weeks I wanted to kill myself.

I had the most god awful nerve pain, I couldn't close my hands I could grip the bars, I was up and down all night felt like a torch and knives burning couldn't shake it loose. So I started skipping days EOD it got a little better, than tried every third day finally and had virtually no sides except muscle and strength especially when taken after a workout with insulin.
I'd gain 18 solid pounds and keep it. Thought I found the missing link to a pro card cause I broke the 300 lb barrier with abs. - but oh there is soo much more to that as we know.
so for pure mass I'd take it ETD, at 18 -21 iu's so 42 ius a week about the same as 6 ius a day but so much easier.

You are correct as there are many ways to take the GH for fat loss, longevity, mass, and tissue healing..my favorite for mass was infrequent dosing with 2 large dose a week, well large back then...now everyone seems to think 20 ius a day is common.

We didn't even touch the other aspect of GH - the brands. I have no idea what the best stuff is now as far as generics as I don't follow it... I took the real HYGES and RIPS 2011 - 2012? and they were on par with the seros although the cardiac effects were different strong heart beats and raised pulse rate.
I did get Jintropins straight from the factory too back in 2004, and took them on and off with seros and they burnt me up, no water retention and the fat melted off on a bulking diet.

I still think the most effective dosing schedule for AAS which is the most dangerous is fast acting esters in and out around the time of the work out .
When I took orals I always took them once a day and sometimes in the case of drol EOD.

People all talk about even blood levels but if you are constantly saturating the receptors with any hormone it becomes highly ineffective.
Best example in the real world is insulin, look a what the world has created type 2 diabetes which left untreated goes full blown.
These people are constantly bombarding their cells with insulin and they just don't react 100% anymore- and bodybuilders are no different with steroids insulin and GH.

I'm glad you are sharing your experiences with us. You are definitely onto something cuz I'm one of those nutcases who constantly takes different things, isn't too consistent most of the time with dosing and I haven't hit the brick wall yet. From week to week I may take different compounds or different doses. Bad case of OCD sometimes lol. But progression hasn't stopped. Adding to what you are saying, I think constantly bombarding the body with a substance will always lead to some type of desensitization because the body will eventually fight it to go back into homeostasis. If you keep switching things up I believe you prevent this.

Either way probably works. I'm not saying one way is better then the other.

More then one way to skin a cat.

the_warrior · May 23, 2016

Massive G said:
I definitely agree on that.

I have always said that GH works if you inject into your toes upside down. My personal experience is that I never tried GH until I had been bodybuilding for over 12 years. The flavor of the time was 5 on 2 off which made no sense to me. Dosing recommendations were all over the place too. I in 2003 finally took the plunge, a friend had access to seros from AIDS patients (sounds terrible but it is what it is) I started at 6 ius per day post work out, and with in 3 weeks I wanted to kill myself.

I had the most god awful nerve pain, I couldn't close my hands I could grip the bars, I was up and down all night felt like a torch and knives burning couldn't shake it loose. So I started skipping days EOD it got a little better, than tried every third day finally and had virtually no sides except muscle and strength especially when taken after a workout with insulin.

I'd gain 18 solid pounds and keep it. Thought I found the missing link to a pro card cause I broke the 300 lb barrier with abs. - but oh there is soo much more to that as we know.

so for pure mass I'd take it ETD, at 18 -21 iu's so 42 ius a week about the same as 6 ius a day but so much easier.

You are correct as there are many ways to take the GH for fat loss, longevity, mass, and tissue healing..my favorite for mass was infrequent dosing with 2 large dose a week, well large back then...now everyone seems to think 20 ius a day is common.

We didn't even touch the other aspect of GH - the brands. I have no idea what the best stuff is now as far as generics as I don't follow it... I took the real HYGES and RIPS 2011 - 2012? and they were on par with the seros although the cardiac effects were different strong heart beats and raised pulse rate.

I did get Jintropins straight from the factory too back in 2004, and took them on and off with seros and they burnt me up, no water retention and the fat melted off on a bulking diet.

I still think the most effective dosing schedule for AAS which is the most dangerous is fast acting esters in and out around the time of the work out .

When I took orals I always took them once a day and sometimes in the case of drol EOD.

People all talk about even blood levels but if you are constantly saturating the receptors with any hormone it becomes highly ineffective.

Best example in the real world is insulin, look a what the world has created type 2 diabetes which left untreated goes full blown.

These people are constantly bombarding their cells with insulin and they just don't react 100% anymore- and bodybuilders are no different with steroids insulin and GH.

MG, thank you for sharing your experience

Did you notice that the day that the large dose was applied mattered for results. To be more specific, was the growth even all over body or (or as even as it tends to be) or did the body parts trained on the bonus dose days seem to grow more, less or same?

Did you apply the large dose all at once or spread it out over the day? From the perspective of maximizing igf, it would seem you would want to maximize the window during which gh is active and you would want to have some amount of insulin present for the conversion to proceed optimally in the liver

I am also intrigued by your mention of short acting AAS - have you found this to work primarily with orals or with things like TNE to an equal or greater degree? I am wondering whether it might be worth adding a base compound preworkout on days that I train my weak body parts (I use insulin in the same manner)

Protein719 · May 23, 2016

Massive G said:
I definitely agree on that.
I have always said that GH works if you inject into your toes upside down. My personal experience is that I never tried GH until I had been bodybuilding for over 12 years. The flavor of the time was 5 on 2 off which made no sense to me. Dosing recommendations were all over the place too. I in 2003 finally took the plunge, a friend had access to seros from AIDS patients (sounds terrible but it is what it is) I started at 6 ius per day post work out, and with in 3 weeks I wanted to kill myself.

I had the most god awful nerve pain, I couldn't close my hands I could grip the bars, I was up and down all night felt like a torch and knives burning couldn't shake it loose. So I started skipping days EOD it got a little better, than tried every third day finally and had virtually no sides except muscle and strength especially when taken after a workout with insulin.
I'd gain 18 solid pounds and keep it. Thought I found the missing link to a pro card cause I broke the 300 lb barrier with abs. - but oh there is soo much more to that as we know.
so for pure mass I'd take it ETD, at 18 -21 iu's so 42 ius a week about the same as 6 ius a day but so much easier.

You are correct as there are many ways to take the GH for fat loss, longevity, mass, and tissue healing..my favorite for mass was infrequent dosing with 2 large dose a week, well large back then...now everyone seems to think 20 ius a day is common.

We didn't even touch the other aspect of GH - the brands. I have no idea what the best stuff is now as far as generics as I don't follow it... I took the real HYGES and RIPS 2011 - 2012? and they were on par with the seros although the cardiac effects were different strong heart beats and raised pulse rate.
I did get Jintropins straight from the factory too back in 2004, and took them on and off with seros and they burnt me up, no water retention and the fat melted off on a bulking diet.

I still think the most effective dosing schedule for AAS which is the most dangerous is fast acting esters in and out around the time of the work out .
When I took orals I always took them once a day and sometimes in the case of drol EOD.

People all talk about even blood levels but if you are constantly saturating the receptors with any hormone it becomes highly ineffective.
Best example in the real world is insulin, look a what the world has created type 2 diabetes which left untreated goes full blown.
These people are constantly bombarding their cells with insulin and they just don't react 100% anymore- and bodybuilders are no different with steroids insulin and GH.

What do you mean? How is it dangerous?

Thanks

jlm25 · May 23, 2016

Massive G said:
I definitely agree on that.
I have always said that GH works if you inject into your toes upside down. My personal experience is that I never tried GH until I had been bodybuilding for over 12 years. The flavor of the time was 5 on 2 off which made no sense to me. Dosing recommendations were all over the place too. I in 2003 finally took the plunge, a friend had access to seros from AIDS patients (sounds terrible but it is what it is) I started at 6 ius per day post work out, and with in 3 weeks I wanted to kill myself.

I had the most god awful nerve pain, I couldn't close my hands I could grip the bars, I was up and down all night felt like a torch and knives burning couldn't shake it loose. So I started skipping days EOD it got a little better, than tried every third day finally and had virtually no sides except muscle and strength especially when taken after a workout with insulin.
I'd gain 18 solid pounds and keep it. Thought I found the missing link to a pro card cause I broke the 300 lb barrier with abs. - but oh there is soo much more to that as we know.
so for pure mass I'd take it ETD, at 18 -21 iu's so 42 ius a week about the same as 6 ius a day but so much easier.

You are correct as there are many ways to take the GH for fat loss, longevity, mass, and tissue healing..my favorite for mass was infrequent dosing with 2 large dose a week, well large back then...now everyone seems to think 20 ius a day is common.

We didn't even touch the other aspect of GH - the brands. I have no idea what the best stuff is now as far as generics as I don't follow it... I took the real HYGES and RIPS 2011 - 2012? and they were on par with the seros although the cardiac effects were different strong heart beats and raised pulse rate.
I did get Jintropins straight from the factory too back in 2004, and took them on and off with seros and they burnt me up, no water retention and the fat melted off on a bulking diet.

I still think the most effective dosing schedule for AAS which is the most dangerous is fast acting esters in and out around the time of the work out .
When I took orals I always took them once a day and sometimes in the case of drol EOD.

People all talk about even blood levels but if you are constantly saturating the receptors with any hormone it becomes highly ineffective.
Best example in the real world is insulin, look a what the world has created type 2 diabetes which left untreated goes full blown.
These people are constantly bombarding their cells with insulin and they just don't react 100% anymore- and bodybuilders are no different with steroids insulin and GH.

I have not found any conclusive evidence that shows saturation occurs, or even at what level. 500mg, 1g,2g? At what point, if any, do the receptors become ineffective? Steady blood levels are very good at maintaining a balance in the body. If the body is constantly trying to go to homeostasis, wouldn't it be easier to treat and keep the body running optimal, if there are steady levels? How can anyone keep, for example, estrogen in check, if shit is being injected at random times?

Using insulin as an example when talking about receptor saturation of anabolics is a stretch. Typically, individuals are going to have a plethora of variables if they are type2.

I still have not seen any sort of proof, other then old school thought, of why this would work. I think we are at the point in time, where with science advances, there needs to be a bit of substantial documentation/source that would help back said theory.

RamboStallone · May 23, 2016

jlm25 said:
I have not found any conclusive evidence that shows saturation occurs, or even at what level. 500mg, 1g,2g? At what point, if any, do the receptors become ineffective? Steady blood levels are very good at maintaining a balance in the body. If the body is constantly trying to go to homeostasis, wouldn't it be easier to treat and keep the body running optimal, if there are steady levels? How can anyone keep, for example, estrogen in check, if shit is being injected at random times?

Using insulin as an example when talking about receptor saturation of anabolics is a stretch. Typically, individuals are going to have a plethora of variables if they are type2.

I still have not seen any sort of proof, other then old school thought, of why this would work. I think we are at the point in time, where with science advances, there needs to be a bit of substantial documentation/source that would help back said theory.

Well there aren't any studies being done on bodybuilders or AAS abusers so doubt we'll see scientific evidence on this subject.

the_warrior · Jun 4, 2016

Bump

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SL1CED · Jun 4, 2016

jlm25 said:
Do you have some sort of proof to illustrate that this is the best way to take it?

How, why, and where would literature be to support that? You guys want literature for everything but fail to realize no one has every done this type of stuff besides us "bodybuilders". We're the damn experiment.

MassiveG is telling you what HE's experienced. Try it for yourself, if it works for you like it did--thank him. If not, find another way.

But shit, another damn posting requesting bullshit literature smh. When will you guys get it, there's no piece of literature that'll have all the variables we're accustomed to here. No "study" is done on us bodybuilders that eat the way we do, shoot the gear we do, the peptides, the gh, the insulin, workout x kind of way or y kind of way. All these variables will come with no abstract.

finephysique · Jun 4, 2016

Massive g I see you mention the generics effect on pulse and strength of heart beat, any idea why this is? I have been using the providers Gh and have had a noticeable increase in both of these things my resting heart rate goes from around 56 to high 60's which about a 25% increase but within 2 days of going off it comes back down it is very strange.

Massive G · Jun 4, 2016

the_warrior said:
MG, thank you for sharing your experience

Did you notice that the day that the large dose was applied mattered for results. To be more specific, was the growth even all over body or (or as even as it tends to be) or did the body parts trained on the bonus dose days seem to grow more, less or same?

Did you apply the large dose all at once or spread it out over the day? From the perspective of maximizing igf, it would seem you would want to maximize the window during which gh is active and you would want to have some amount of insulin present for the conversion to proceed optimally in the liver

I am also intrigued by your mention of short acting AAS - have you found this to work primarily with orals or with things like TNE to an equal or greater degree? I am wondering whether it might be worth adding a base compound preworkout on days that I train my weak body parts (I use insulin in the same manner)

hey - the primary way I took it evolved through reduction of side effects.
as mentioned before EOD dosing of 6 ius was killing me side effect wise, and it wasn't just the seros, as I had Jins too and later on tried RIPS and HYGES and they killed me too at 6 ius.

I took the large dose post work out with insulin - round 15 i'us of Humulin R and in a few short weeks everything exploded. I tried dosing at bedtime a few times because the experts at the time were saying not to take GH with insulin or it would be cancelled out or some crap like that, forgive me but it's been 12 years now, but anyway when I took it at night I woke up with a killer headache, and dry mouth. when I checked my BG levels there were 200 points larger than normal for fast am glucose at 275.

The whole point of this was I couldn't tolerate GH at more than 6 iu's a day (and never have been with even RIPS or other good chinese generics)
So my peak doses every third day of 21 ius = the exact same use of 6 ius over 7 days.

I was amazed and the size and strength I gained off of it because I was convinced like most others that the more you take both and the dosage plus the frequency the better, and I learned it's not the case.

I learned it several years prior to that before taking the plunge with GH, with a couple of long higher dosed cycles with multiple compounds and just HATED it, on the few 16 weeks cycles I did trying to make it big, I gained an enormous amount of weight and size, but then would lose a lot of it, and would feel miserable about half way in, "testy" is what I called it moody all the time BP up liver enzymes hemo all that stuff goes up don't care what supps you take to counter you just feel "toxic" after a while.

The PCT therapy crap never worked clomid, HCG, etc, always lost a lot of mass and gained some fat back too when crashing to clean out.

There's a certain formula I would use that if advising myself back then I would have been a lot happier and more successful in gaining maximum mass and size and strength with out all the ups and downs.

for the fast acting comment, the experiences I had with dermal fina, and Androgel led me to better gains when applied prior to work out - the androgel was probably the best.

I always felt that raising the hormone levels very high centered around the powo period was the best way as your cells are more receptive to them
insulin GH t3 and fast acting test - orals are good but then again that's what I was talking about when I mentioned damaging as they stress the liver.

Never tried a topical oral but know a few guys that have experimented with dermals tren no ester, test no ester, and dbol and var from transdermal preps around taking twice a day am and before a work out.

I was one of those guys that never took orals 5-6 times a day to get even blood levels, you know why? because I tried it several times. So when doing orals early on I would take the full dose at one time pre-workout, and sometimes take orals EOD on training days only. Never noticed a difference in mass, but felt a lot better on once or EOD dosing. The few times I cycled orals an took them 5-6 times a day with meals I felt miserable- the sides were worse. I still got the typical sides with once or EOD dosing but they weren't as bad.

I just think the less frequently you take a compound the better you react to it, I can't say I ever mainlined GH, but I did try multiipe dosing 3 x 2 ius a day when trying to find the right formula for me, and it led to extra sides vs one 6 iu dose.
Insulin is the same way - I know guys that took insulin with every meal and they were a mess after a few months until they cleaned out, and guys that took insulin EOD centered around the work out and they had great gains with little sides.

I can write more on this on the ideal cycling pattern if you like - some of my ideas have changed over the years as I continue to try to read all I can about real world and research.

Today with all the knowledge out there - you can be very large and lean year round by cycling up and down and still keep your libido mass and strength.
soo much easier than back in the day when we were hitting 12 and 16 week cycles and crashing - it only took me about a year to realize that to stop as the high dosed stuff was killing my overall long term goals as mentioned gains stopped about mid cycle and sides were potentiated and felt miserable.

Massive G · Jun 4, 2016

Protein719 said:
What do you mean? How is it dangerous?

Thanks

I was really referring more to orals than the fast acting esters, the quickest ones are TNE or test suspension, but they aren't as fast as everyone thinks sometimes as the body takes time to process it from even the water based depot site.

Massive G · Jun 4, 2016

finephysique said:
Massive g I see you mention the generics effect on pulse and strength of heart beat, any idea why this is? I have been using the providers Gh and have had a noticeable increase in both of these things my resting heart rate goes from around 56 to high 60's which about a 25% increase but within 2 days of going off it comes back down it is very strange.

I have never been able to find out why it is, it could be a reaction to a material they use in/as a stabilizer to freeze-dry the GH peptide with.

It seemed to improve when I (hyper diluted) mixed the cake with 3 mls water.

nothuman · Jun 4, 2016

finephysique said:
Massive g I see you mention the generics effect on pulse and strength of heart beat, any idea why this is? I have been using the providers Gh and have had a noticeable increase in both of these things my resting heart rate goes from around 56 to high 60's which about a 25% increase but within 2 days of going off it comes back down it is very strange.

How many iu's do you use to get that increase in heart rate and is it greys or black tops?

the_warrior · Jun 4, 2016

SL1CED said:
How, why, and where would literature be to support that? You guys want literature for everything but fail to realize no one has every done this type of stuff besides us "bodybuilders". We're the damn experiment.

MassiveG is telling you what HE's experienced. Try it for yourself, if it works for you like it did--thank him. If not, find another way.

But shit, another damn posting requesting bullshit literature smh. When will you guys get it, there's no piece of literature that'll have all the variables we're accustomed to here. No "study" is done on us bodybuilders that eat the way we do, shoot the gear we do, the peptides, the gh, the insulin, workout x kind of way or y kind of way. All these variables will come with no abstract.

I see your point - at the same time it is worth asking about why something mighty work better than another - the mechanism as it were. It's only through such understanding combined with experimentation that we are able to optimize protocols over time for various intended effects

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the_warrior · Jun 4, 2016

Massive G said:
hey - the primary way I took it evolved through reduction of side effects.

as mentioned before EOD dosing of 6 ius was killing me side effect wise, and it wasn't just the seros, as I had Jins too and later on tried RIPS and HYGES and they killed me too at 6 ius.

I took the large dose post work out with insulin - round 15 i'us of Humulin R and in a few short weeks everything exploded. I tried dosing at bedtime a few times because the experts at the time were saying not to take GH with insulin or it would be cancelled out or some crap like that, forgive me but it's been 12 years now, but anyway when I took it at night I woke up with a killer headache, and dry mouth. when I checked my BG levels there were 200 points larger than normal for fast am glucose at 275.

The whole point of this was I couldn't tolerate GH at more than 6 iu's a day (and never have been with even RIPS or other good chinese generics)

So my peak doses every third day of 21 ius = the exact same use of 6 ius over 7 days.

I was amazed and the size and strength I gained off of it because I was convinced like most others that the more you take both and the dosage plus the frequency the better, and I learned it's not the case.

I learned it several years prior to that before taking the plunge with GH, with a couple of long higher dosed cycles with multiple compounds and just HATED it, on the few 16 weeks cycles I did trying to make it big, I gained an enormous amount of weight and size, but then would lose a lot of it, and would feel miserable about half way in, "testy" is what I called it moody all the time BP up liver enzymes hemo all that stuff goes up don't care what supps you take to counter you just feel "toxic" after a while.

The PCT therapy crap never worked clomid, HCG, etc, always lost a lot of mass and gained some fat back too when crashing to clean out.

There's a certain formula I would use that if advising myself back then I would have been a lot happier and more successful in gaining maximum mass and size and strength with out all the ups and downs.

for the fast acting comment, the experiences I had with dermal fina, and Androgel led me to better gains when applied prior to work out - the androgel was probably the best.

I always felt that raising the hormone levels very high centered around the powo period was the best way as your cells are more receptive to them

insulin GH t3 and fast acting test - orals are good but then again that's what I was talking about when I mentioned damaging as they stress the liver.

Never tried a topical oral but know a few guys that have experimented with dermals tren no ester, test no ester, and dbol and var from transdermal preps around taking twice a day am and before a work out.

I was one of those guys that never took orals 5-6 times a day to get even blood levels, you know why? because I tried it several times. So when doing orals early on I would take the full dose at one time pre-workout, and sometimes take orals EOD on training days only. Never noticed a difference in mass, but felt a lot better on once or EOD dosing. The few times I cycled orals an took them 5-6 times a day with meals I felt miserable- the sides were worse. I still got the typical sides with once or EOD dosing but they weren't as bad.

I just think the less frequently you take a compound the better you react to it, I can't say I ever mainlined GH, but I did try multiipe dosing 3 x 2 ius a day when trying to find the right formula for me, and it led to extra sides vs one 6 iu dose.

Insulin is the same way - I know guys that took insulin with every meal and they were a mess after a few months until they cleaned out, and guys that took insulin EOD centered around the work out and they had great gains with little sides.

I can write more on this on the ideal cycling pattern if you like - some of my ideas have changed over the years as I continue to try to read all I can about real world and research.

Today with all the knowledge out there - you can be very large and lean year round by cycling up and down and still keep your libido mass and strength.

soo much easier than back in the day when we were hitting 12 and 16 week cycles and crashing - it only took me about a year to realize that to stop as the high dosed stuff was killing my overall long term goals as mentioned gains stopped about mid cycle and sides were potentiated and felt miserable.

Your thoughts on these topics are fascinating. I am particularly interested as I am running some experiments around spiking various PED's around workout on the days I train weak body parts.

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SL1CED · Jun 4, 2016

the_warrior said:
I see your point - at the same time it is worth asking about why something mighty work better than another - the mechanism as it were. It's only through such understanding combined with experimentation that we are able to optimize protocols over time for various intended effects

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck finding a single abstract that would apply to a group of people like us.

doug1 · Jun 4, 2016

Massive G said:
I have never been able to find out why it is, it could be a reaction to a material they use in/as a stabilizer to freeze-dry the GH peptide with.

It seemed to improve when I (hyper diluted) mixed the cake with 3 mls water.

Hmmm. Very interesting, I'm gonna have to do this, also, along with the other things you have said. Extremely informative posts Massive G. Thank you very much, it's greatly appreciated.

the_warrior · Jun 4, 2016

SL1CED said:
Good luck finding a single abstract that would apply to a group of people like us.

I am not suggesting there would be an abstract - as stated, I recognize your point.

But say for example someone observes that they gain more muscle using gh and insulin so that they are active at the same time. We can just say, well, it workable cause it worked for you.

We could also ask why it might work better than separating the two. One answer would be that gh increases insulin resistance acutely in fat cells and Therefore exogenous insulin has preferential action on muscle When coax ministered with gh

Also, we could observe that maximal igf production in the liver requires the presence of insulin.

We could also observe that insulin i creases gh receptor expression

Do you see what I'm saying?

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