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IGF 78 on 5.4iu genotropin... seems I got scammed.

Cris refunded this block of training that I was half way through. Not so much as a hint of an apology.

I thought he was really good til this and maybe when he told me to "chill the fuck out".

But even a thinly veiled apology would've meant something. Shitty.

I don't expect the generic replacement the source "promised" before calling me an asshole either.
 
This is all unfortunate to read.

Sorry you went through this @Josefein421

Any source that jumps down your throat like that when you have concerns about a product is not to be trusted.

I have worked with sources where my blood serum test levels came back low and they instantly sent me new test vials and reached out to other customers with the same batch to have them run blood work and make sure their test vials were ok.

I sell to the top guys too. All of the olympians. I supply their gear.......

JK...See how easy it is to just make stuff up LOL My attempt at levity...

This is also so unfortunate because Cris does seem like a stand up dude. I tend to easily trust anyone in John's circle though and maybe that's ignorant of me.
 
The coach has no control over gear quality. What’s likely is he found a good source that went bad, and highly suggested that source because of how many other bad sources there are.

Recommending fake gear on purpose? Really? His clients would get poor results and it wouldn’t take long to lose a client. Gear profits off an order for a competitor level are what? Not enough to need to skim hormone to make profit.

I just don’t buy the logic about getting ripped off on purpose.

His source just sucks or it went bad. Find another one.
 
Cris refunded this block of training that I was half way through. Not so much as a hint of an apology.

I thought he was really good til this and maybe when he told me to "chill the fuck out".

But even a thinly veiled apology would've meant something. Shitty.

I don't expect the generic replacement the source "promised" before calling me an asshole either.
Him refunding half a training block back is the apology. Most coaches don’t refund clients. Take the win, find another HGH source, coach and get back to it.
 
The coach has no control over gear quality. What’s likely is he found a good source that went bad, and highly suggested that source because of how many other bad sources there are.

Recommending fake gear on purpose? Really? His clients would get poor results and it wouldn’t take long to lose a client. Gear profits off an order for a competitor level are what? Not enough to need to skim hormone to make profit.

I just don’t buy the logic about getting ripped off on purpose.

His source just sucks or it went bad. Find another one.
I never said he did it intentionally. I never said the source did it intentionally either. I went out of my way to not accuse directly I just ask questions because I don't know all I know is how I felt, what the results were lack there were labs

But I never blamed your accused either of them
 
Him refunding half a training block back is the apology. Most coaches don’t refund clients. Take the win, find another HGH source, coach and get back to it.
You're very very right. You've given great advice throughout the stretch. Thank you for the advice and knowledge but also the perspective
 
You're very very right. You've given great advice throughout the stretch. Thank you for the advice and knowledge but also the perspective
I’ve worked with Milos, Berry, Vu and am now with AJ. When you work with the best you learn the standards.

At the end of the day coaches still shouldn’t treat clients that way in how they handle things. As AJ tells me all the time, he wants it to be a privilege working together in both directions.

You go through some shit together as you prep and progress. You’d better trust one another and synch. Glad I could be of help.
 
Cris refunded this block of training that I was half way through. Not so much as a hint of an apology.

I thought he was really good til this and maybe when he told me to "chill the fuck out".

But even a thinly veiled apology would've meant something. Shitty.

I don't expect the generic replacement the source "promised" before calling me an asshole either.
Man, I understand you're upset.

However, you keep skipping over the facts because you're upset. You don't have proof that the GH is fake, bad, whatever. You have a reason to be suspicious at this time, nothing more. What if your IGF test was botched by the lab?

There are so many variables that could be at play and you have minimal data. As mentioned, send the GH to Janoshik. You either find out it's fake and then you can shove it in their face, or you find out it's real...then what?

If you want an apology because the dude seems rude, sure. If you want an apology for bad GH, test the product first. It's the ONLY way to be 100% sure.
 
I know a lot of people didn’t care for Boston loyd for whatever reason. But I feel like he knew what he was talking about when it came to a lot of things gear wise. He said on legit pharma and generics his igf levels never have been out of the normal range on lab test (just like myself and many others). But obviously he got the visual benefits from gh though. He also stated that he had a fridge full of legit pharm gh but couldn’t justify the price to benefit ratio on using it vs good generics. So idk take that for what’s it worth. Gh serum is the blood test that actually shows if your gh is legit.
 
Yeah, HGH still works without serum IGF going up. As @luki7788 said, HGH tells all the cells to make IGF; muscles, skin, bone, hair.


Most of the IGF-1 you see in blood work is made by your liver, so you won't be able to see the intracellular IGF. Trenbolone makes the liver produce less, but animal studies suggest trenbolone either increase muscle igf production or the sensitivity of muscle to igf.

Regardless, guys who stack HGH with trenbolone see no decrease in results from either compound.


HGH increases lipolysis aka fat loss independently of any IGF production or effect.


Generally, HGH seems to peak closer to 3 hours than 30 m to 1 hour for most guys. Route of Administration, activity levels and genetics will affect that peak from person to person.


If you repeat the IGF-1; i would try something like TO blacks, same dosage and protocol you just did with the "genos".


If you repeat GH serum; i would do everything the same, but inject the genos 3 hours before blood draw to the delt. That's kind of the standard everyone does here on PM you can compare serum #s to.


GHRP / GHRH peptides are unlikely to spike serum GH that high especially with the exact same results as real GH.


It would be really weird if peptides could raise serum GH to very similar numbers as real GH after 3 hours. Peptides are pretty garbage at raising both GH and IGF levels. I'm glad that fad died out.
Lol I remember the peptide craze. Wonder how many hours of leisure/ sleep people lost reading datbtrue and his cult following....the secret gains that magical pharmacy grade peptides could deliver....all provided by some random lawyer ordering junk and reselling it from good ol China.
 
Lol I remember the peptide craze. Wonder how many hours of leisure/ sleep people lost reading datbtrue and his cult following....the secret gains that magical pharmacy grade peptides could deliver....all provided by some random lawyer ordering junk and reselling it from good ol China.

family-guy-mirror.gif
 
If your IGF is low on Generics as well as pharma

Then your liver is bunk, not your GH
Nah. A lot more goes into it than that. I don’t know the exact science but you still can get great results from gh without high igf levels.
 
Thank you.

Source got very defensive as well. I asked how I can just trust that other stuff is legit too. He got all angry saying "top guys and olympians rely on us. How dare you!" Offered to replace w Generic. Said it was an "issue" they corrected. I said everyone claims they have top guys, use labs tests, etc but it's all really reputation, word of mouth and trust. Sure a source could test their stuff to share. Doesn't mean that's what they sell.

I didn't accuse just vented and hypothesized lookingo for reassurance. I mean it was $4k over 5 months.

Just took the wind from my sales a little. Going to stay on diet plan during the day and have a free meal tonight and tomorrow night and go from there. Figure out next step
Jose we feel bad for your situation please and an e-mail to me personally and I will send you something free of charge to serum test that is real pharmaceutical HGH. Happy New Year!
 
I have been dieting hard and introduced pharma GH from the beginning. I worked up to 5.4iu/day split and just didn't get the magical response (or any noticeable response) so I even upped it to 7iu/day for a few weeks.

No super full feeling, no big weight drops/shredding, pumps unchanged... decreased but I thought that was just low carbs... and no negative sides like increased heart rate, CTS or increased BP that I had in the past on generic. I just couldn't shake the suspicion so I had labs drawn...

10iu IM 46min before draw (they got me back way faster than I planned). Also on 5.4iu genotropin for 3-4 months now aside from about a month at 7iu

Results
GH serum- 15.5 < 7.1)
IGF- 78 (52-328)

Seems like it's faked w a ghrp maybe bc I'm getting some bump post inject

Here's the thing... contrast this to 4iu/ day TP black. Same protocol for testing...

Results
GH serum- 16.8
IGF- 411

So I scored higher on serum and WAY higher IGF on 1.4iu LESS from TP than "pharma".

If this is accurate I'm furious in part because the source and using pharma exclusively was pushed and provided by my coach.

Thoughts??
Well you tested high for GH in both tests but clearly the Gens didn't give the signal to produce IGF-1. So, it's possible that the Gens were degraded. These are ELISA based tests so depending on the antibodies used denatured GH can test as if it was fine or at least some of it was fine even if it was degraded.
 
Nah. A lot more goes into it than that. I don’t know the exact science but you still can get great results from gh without high igf levels.

Yeah I was making a joke on the liver lol

I think Chase Irons talked about his IGF not being crazy high when running 16+ ius of pharma a day. But his physique and changes were drastic
 
Yeah I was making a joke on the liver lol

I think Chase Irons talked about his IGF not being crazy high when running 16+ ius of pharma a day. But his physique and changes were drastic
Ok my fault for not catching onto the joke lol 😂. Yeah man and I’m just speaking about my in my experience my igf has never been out of normal range in igf levels but my physique changes drastically on gh
 
Yeah I was making a joke on the liver lol

I think Chase Irons talked about his IGF not being crazy high when running 16+ ius of pharma a day. But his physique and changes were drastic
Yes Chase has below 200 IGF on over 18 units of GH. To me, that shows IGF is not as important as we think it is.
 
I agree with Elvia. Just because your igf is low doesn’t mean the gh is fake at all. There are alot of different factors involved in the igf number. Gh serum is really the number to look for to tell if it’s real gh or not (imo) . That said most ph**m gh is fake anyway so I use generics. I’ve had my igf tested on several sources gh that we all know are legit and my igf is never out of the normal range. I do get great results on it though so the igf number doesn’t bother me.
You are correct. I have people on brand name HGH from a pharmacy and their igf levels dont improve on paper. The number is not end all.
my buddy explained to me (Professor w PHD in this shit- worked at pfizer making GH, mnfctr in the pharma field now so hes credible) that the testing is different from lab to lab and the process in which they obtain the numbers differs drastically so paying attention to the IGF level is not a great way to definitively measure the dose or quality of GH- paraphrasing.
I have had people with higher IGF scores on peptides than on pharma hgh.

I hope you didnt get ripped off. Im simply saying I would not bet my life on that number alone as a lot of things can throw it off.
 

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