IGF Questions

[Gavin Kane]

That's what I was thinking... Since I work out early AM I was going to do 1 shot post workout and another shot before bed. Almost Pro - would this be a good protocol?

Also, what size pin do you all use for IM IGF? 1/2" SLIN PIN?

I use 28 or 29g 1/2" slin pins with a 50 or 30 unit slin pin so I can measure more accurately.

 

[edge250]

gonna try this starting next week, i'll let you know how it goes compared to the more conventional way

 

[Coopie]

gonna try this starting next week, i'll let you know how it goes compared to the more conventional way

Yup, me too. But, I'll start in two weeks.

 

[maxsupplements]

AP..

AlmostPro, i like your schedule and looks to be quite promising. one question, as i am a bit confused.. are you only doing IGf 3 times a week??? not all week long?? so, basically, you make a single mg last a long time right?? i mean that should last atleast 30 days...

so, as everyone else talks about receptor downgrade and such, wont only doing it 3 times a week make your blood levels fluctuate like crazy???

i just finished a 5x a week inj. of 50mcg, done in the am, split into two injections in the arms, rotating sites, and loved it.. was my second cycle, and i will definately try your routine in the next run..

 

[Big Bapper]

If you cannot do the 4x per day schedule because of work restrictions then by all means go with 2x per day, once in the am and once pwo. Try to coincide at least one of your injects right after your workout, preferably in the muscle just trained. You can even split up that pwo injection into two shots to hit each muscle equally.

I personnally take my gh on a similar 3x per week schedule doing one weeks worth of dosage in those 3 days. So instead of taking 6iu per day, I take 15iu pwo 3x per week. This is not an optimal way for those looking for fat loss, but for a lot of guys who have tried this protocol with me, the lean mass gains are far superior to the daily inject method.

Since I work out M, W, F I just take my igf on those days, with gh on those days as well. I would recommend if you take igf two times per day to make sure one of those times is pwo with your gh. The best method of taking gh is right after your workout, immediately, and then take the igf 20-30 mins after that.

The reason is that gh has a peak 1/2 life of about 16-19 mins depending on which report you read and since it has a conversion to igf near the end of that peak, you should inject your igf at this time to sort of super-charge your igf accumulation.

Now mind you, most of this is mere speculation by me during my research and studies, tested on me and some of my clients and found to work. I can't say this is gospel, nor do I have anything more to back it up than my empirical evidence but I am always researching and passing along things to you guys so you can try it and give me honest feedback. I am a scientist by trade and this is what I do.

Anyway, for the volume of igf recon I use 4cc per 1000mcg to I can have some additional water at time of inject since 15mcg is such a small amount.

I hope I answered all the questions, but keep shooting them at me so I can make sure you guys are covered.

Could we add slin into the mix PWO since we are only going to be using a low dose of IGF.

 

[Gavin Kane]

AlmostPro, i like your schedule and looks to be quite promising. one question, as i am a bit confused.. are you only doing IGf 3 times a week??? not all week long?? so, basically, you make a single mg last a long time right?? i mean that should last atleast 30 days...

so, as everyone else talks about receptor downgrade and such, wont only doing it 3 times a week make your blood levels fluctuate like crazy???

i just finished a 5x a week inj. of 50mcg, done in the am, split into two injections in the arms, rotating sites, and loved it.. was my second cycle, and i will definately try your routine in the next run..

You really should only be concerned with blood fluctuations with androgens such a drol or dbol, that is when you want stability. Gh peak in about >20mins, igf has a really short half life so are you really reaching stable levels when doing it just once per day?

No you are not, hence no need to stress or even blood levels. What we should be worried about and focus on is receptor downregulation and supersaturation. The 3 day per week will help prevent overstimulation of the receptors, using multiple times per day in smaller doses will even out our total anabolic window for growth.

What we are doing is maximizing your anabolic window for target cell growth on training days, then letting the receptors cool down so to speak before you hit them again with another superphysiological dose.

 

[Gavin Kane]

Could we add slin into the mix PWO since we are only going to be using a low dose of IGF.

Hell yes. Slin is the last key and link in the massive synergistic effect of androgens, gh, and igf. Slin is what will modulate and mediate all the sensitivity issues from gh and igf. Slin is also best used in moderate doses in very infrequent injection schedules.

Ask Milos or Chad, we all have the same theory and conclusion that it is way to easy to overstimulate insulin receptors and cause insensitivity, quickly. Therefore, Chad recommends only using once or twice per week, Milos a little bit more often.

I personally use slin 3 times per week, again on M, W, F workout days. I used to take it 3 times per day at 20iu per inject when competing but now only do 15-20iu pwo. I time it with my cocktail of pwo gh and igf. I take the gh immediately after training, take the igf 20 mins later and then 10 mins later have the humalog with a dextrose and whey shake.

Very simple and you are still getting maximum nutrition within your peak window because the shake is only 1/2 hour after training and then I have an easily digestible meal one hour after that.

 

[Gavin Kane]

P.S. if you guys want to know who the hell I am, lol, I put up a small pic in the members pic section from when I used to compete in the late 90's, early 2000's.

 

[Big Bapper]

Almost Pro

Thank for your information. Keep it coming and you dont even want payed. Great stuff.........seen your pic you need to post a larger one so we can all have a look...............I am starting my first run of IGF on Monday and you have helped allot in me making my mind up on how to run it with all my other goddies. Thanks again. Respect.

Big Bapper

 

[Coopie]

Really Excellent Info Almost Pro - Much Appreciated!

Do you mix Slin and Igf in the same pin? If I'm taking them together, and I have Hum R, can't I just hit them together IM?

The IM use of Hum R would speed up it's action, similar to using Humalog.
Is this a good idea or bad?

Also, I'm not going to run GH for cost reasons - can the IGF and Slin work together without the GH?

 

[Gavin Kane]

Really Excellent Info Almost Pro - Much Appreciated!

Do you mix Slin and Igf in the same pin? If I'm taking them together, and I have Hum R, can't I just hit them together IM?

The IM use of Hum R would speed up it's action, similar to using Humalog.
Is this a good idea or bad?

Also, I'm not going to run GH for cost reasons - can the IGF and Slin work together without the GH?

Actually I don't mix anything, call me paranoid. I have used humulin-r for years before humalog but after the log came out I never went back. If you were to use the R I would definitely recommend IM to speed up the onset. Remember according to many charts R can remain active for up to 8 hours, though I have never experienced that.

With R, I would have a peak at about 1 hour and then a re-peak about 4 hours and then it would clear. During that time I kept fats to a minimum and ate pasta and chicken.

With R you can safely take it before your workout if you are drinking a sports drink and not training for more than 45mins to an hour.

 

[edge250]

almost pro your pic needs resized its to small to see anything. bacteriostatic water ok for extra dilution along with aa the igf come with?

 

[Gavin Kane]

almost pro your pic needs resized its to small to see anything. bacteriostatic water ok for extra dilution along with aa the igf come with?

I am a computer moron, I will put some more pics up that hopefully are bigger. Anyway, bacterio is fine. .9% sodium chloride is better.

 

[Gavin Kane]

Sorry guys about the pic. Not sure why it is so small but I put up a few more I had on my harddrive.

 

[HELLA SWOLE]

almost pro your pic needs resized its to small to see anything. bacteriostatic water ok for extra dilution along with aa the igf come with?

It is fine to dilute with IN THE PIN, but DO NOT put the water into your vial of igf.

 

[Juice Freak]

AP, Glad to see you on this board bro. Thought I lost an awesome resource when Bolex went down. Your theories are always on point since I've switched to the e3d gh, slin, my body has responded much better then previous cycles. Now I will try out this IGF-1 with it. Just wondering about how you feel about the best way to use PGF2a with the above combo??? I've found that by doing your previously mentioned theory on the gh and slin e3d I wait till all my heavy sets are done, inject the pgf2a and gh then igf then slin combo perform some heavy stretches and then cram a high rep pump set for the muscles I've just worked out after taking some vitargo and the pumps are painfull and last a long as time. I've had great results running it like this just wandering if you'd tweak anything??? Again glad to see you again man, and for anyone that doesn't know AP he's probably the most knowledgeable guy I know on this subject. Cheers bro.

 

[Monster Rhino]

AP, I'm not sure if you remember me but we first chatted on Bolex when you helped me out with my first HGH and IGF cycle. Just to let you know, because of your help, I was able to step on stage at 239 lbs... about 30 lbs heavier than last year!... and in similar condition. I placed 2nd in my class... I lost because I screwed up my water manipulation, but it's all good, I've learned my lesson and next year I plan to come in at 250 lbs... and shredded!

So, thanks a lot for your help! And it's because of this great advice that I encourage everyone to listen to what AP has to say! He gives sound advice and would not suggest anything he hasn't tried himself. And from his pic, he knows what he's doing.

Now, back to the question(s) at hand.

AP, I'm on PCT right now, but I'm planning to start up the HGH and IGF again in about 2 months. This time I also plan on adding slin to the mix to finally get fukkin huge! And after reading this thread, I will be trying these "new" protocols for the HGH, IGF, slin. But like before, I want to make certain I have a good understanding of what you have laid out.

So, as I understand it:
HGH - 3 x wk, 15iu pwo (to maximize muscle gains) vs 4/6iu per day (to maximize fat loss - best for pre-comp)

IGF - 3 x wk, 60 mcg/day (15iu x 4)... 15mcg upon wake up... the following 3 x 15mcg inj's spaced out every 4 hrs... and re-con with 4 ml acetic acid to help measurements.... pwo inj taken 20-30 min after HGH inj.

Slin - 3 x wk, since I've never used slin I start with 2iu pwo... go up 1iu per usage until reach 20iu peak?... use the fastest acting slin you can get... humalog?... taken 10 min after IGF inj.... then consume whey iso protein with dextrose (10g per iu?) right away.

Now, if the above is correct, then I have a few questions:

1. If I workout 4, 5, or 6 x wk, then do I still stick the 3 x wk protocol? Or did you pick 3 x wk because you only workout 3 x wk?

2. Could I inj IGF twice per day?... in the am upon wake up after the HGH inj and then pwo... each being 15mcg x 2 shot bi-laterally, so I still get the 60mcg/day total? I'm speculating that I would get a bigger influx of IGF pwo with the larger dosage (2x day) then with the more frequent inj protocol (4x day). Or is the constant supply of IGF (4x day injs) more important to it's effetiveness than a larger pwo surge?

3. Is slin inj'd sub-q or IM?

Sorry for the long post, but this is very interesting stuff and I really like the 3 x wk protocol and I want to try it. I just want to make sure I understand all the elements of it.

Thanks,
MR

 

[Massive G]

Interesting how people always speak of "receptor" down grade with IGF-1.
I am not sure of the duration that growth defecient children recieve in human grade IGF-1 (INCRELEX), but the dosage is incredibly high compared to what BB'ers are taking. The package insert says 40-80 mcg PER KG of bodyweight administered twice a day.
(A 50 kg (100 lb child) would be given 4-800 mcgs per day by that dosing scheme.
As AP mentioned half life has nothing to do with results with GH.
Insulin is one thing that I think the body blunts rather quickly too-so it shouldn't be used everyday.

Infrequent administration is best. Over the years I have seen many posts on kids injecting GH 4-6 times a day, crazy shit like people recomending "mainlining GH" and shit like that.

IGF-1 I have never experimented with and don't know if I will because of the increased cancer risk associated with it's use. (if you are prone to cancer).

Good to see you on here AP you are a wealth of knowledge and back most of it up with real world EXPERIENCE.

 

[Big Ian]

AP,

As you say people aren't getting the fat loss on the 3 x per week GH protocol I assume this would stand true for your IGF protocol also?

 

[edge250]

almost pro how would you incorporate mgf into this mix. thanks