IGF Questions

[Coopie]

There seems to be a lot of competing information on the use of IGF so I'm hoping to clear it up here and now.

Can those who have first-hand knowledge please provide input to the following:

1. When is the best time to use IGF?
(Pre-workout, post-workout, divided doses, AM, PM, etc.)

2. SubQ or IM?
(If IM - do you shoot the muscles you're working that day for localized growth?)

3. Dose?
(Average dose for a typical "enhanced" athlete and a "natural" athlete)

4. Duration?
(How long do you run it for? Does the dose increase over time?)

5. Other info?
(Mixing, pins, anything useful)

Thanks!

 

[edge250]

1. i prefer morning and pre-workout, i have experimented with both pre and post and i personally prefer pre-workout

2. IM, i like the biceps

3. i got optimal results from 80mcg per day, tried lower and didnt get the same results, tried 100-120mcg and got very bad headaches

4. 30 days straight, 30 days off

 

[TheGame46]

With preworkout you should make sure to take a good carb loaded pre workout meal/shake b/c of IGF's effect on glucose regulation similar to insulin

 

[Coopie]

edge -

So if you do 80mcg per day is that 40 mcg per bicep? Spilt the dose into left and right bi's?

I heard from a buddy of mine that he shoots into whatever muscle group he's hitting that day. He finds it gives him "amazing local growth". I can't say if it's true or not - he's a monster either way!

Did you work up to that dose or just started at it?

Thanks bro!

 

[edge250]

yes, 40mcg per arm. and yes it seems to increase localized growth where its injected but your whole body will respond.

 

[g32]

here is some info i found somewhere cant remember i like to give proper credit .



IGF-1 LR3/huIGF-1 cycle guide
________________________________________
This is a basic IGF cycle guide. It is meant to answer a lot of very simple questions. I will continue to update as I see fit

What is it? And what is the difference between huIGF-1 and LR3 IGF-1?

IGF-1 stands for insulin like growth factor. IGF-I is the primary protein involved in responses of cells to growth hormone (GH): that is, IGF-I is produced in response to GH and then induces cellular activities. One such example is muscle growth or hyperplasia
This compound also makes the human body more sensitive to insulin. It is the most potent growth factor found in the human body. IGF-1 causes muscle cell hyperplasia, which is an actual splitting and forming of new muscle cells, this is a good thing.

LR3 IGF-1
Long Recumbent 3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-1 sequence with the substitution of an arg for the glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long).

HuIGF-1
It has a 70 amino acid string. It is very short lived in the body (half life of probably around 10-15 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth.

This coupled with PGF2a and TNE would do wonders for site specific growth IMO.

Usage
It needs to be shot PWO. Most shoot bilaterally into the muscle that was worked. Though this is not totally essential, you can shoot it all into one injection site. Just make sure to switch off each workout.

Stacking- because LR3 increases hyperplasia it is best when used in conjunction of other AAS.
The ideal situation would be to inject twice ED due to the life of LR3. If this isnt feasible PWO will suffice, and suffice well.
If you are on your off day, in the AM is best. It will help fight catabolism (muscle breakdown).
If you add insulin to your LR3, be careful. LR3 will make you more sensitive to the effects that insulin has on you. So raise your PWO carb intake to accommodate the added LR3.

If you have never ran insulin before, DO NOT add it with LR3
If you want to learn about insulin click here

What can I expect?
First off you can expect to drop a little BF if your diet is good. LR3 seems to burn off fat.
You can expect an increase in hunger, this is awesome when bulking. That though can be controlled while cutting.
Another thing to remember is hyperplaisa, once again the forming of new muscle cells, thus more size. Strength will go up along with the new muscle mass.
You can expect great pumps. For some people so bad it hurts... you be the judge. I for one have never got pumps that hurt like that... for me personally I feel more pumps with insulin.

Dosing For LR3
The general consensus for dosing LR3 seems to be 40mcg to 60mcg. For no longer than 5 weeks. Do not exceed 100mcg. The average user should have no reason to ever come close to that dose. Some people shoot everyday, some just PWO. So on the days you do not work out the best thing to do is shoot whenever you wake up this helps maintain constant blood levels and helps fight of catabolism.

The first time user should just use 40mcg on PWO days only. This way you can use 40mcg for 5 weeks assuming you have just one MG of LR3. It is a great starting dose that will get you results. But if you have used 40mcg in the past and didnt see the results you wanted, try 60mcg.

A great way to run a cycle that includes IGF would be this-
weeks 1-12 test enanthate E3D 500-750mg a week
Weeks 1-4, 15-19* 40mcg of LR3 ED
PCT 14-18

*IMO I do not feel that its needed the first week of PCT, if my weight falls off it does in weeks 2-3, so I want to aleviate that problem.

Dosing For huIGF

This is about the same as LR3, this is stritcly my opinion based on what I have gatherd and read. As there is next to no information on this. So from what I know about it, this is how Id/do/will use it.
PWO with 30-40mcg into each muscle that was worked. 20-30 min later, repeat. Do this for 4 times. for a total of 120-160mcg
And if I were using this Id use it with humalog. The insulin will remain active for over and hour after the IGF was injected. So this will get all the possible gains from it that you could.

How to figure out dosing

Ok I get, I should use 40mcg.... but how do I figure that out?

1mg = 1000mcg... assuming there is 1ml of liquid we can say that 1ml = 1000mcg and also = 100units...
So 2 units = 20 mcg
The best way to measure this is to use an insulin syringe. You can get away with a 1cc syringe but I prefer to use the .5cc or even the .33cc ones. They measure out each unit, so when you are measuring two units it is much easier on the smaller pin. While the 1cc syringe is fine, it is mesured out by two IU at a time. So one "tick" on the 1cc is 2iu, the .5cc each "tick" is one IU.

Wow so you mean you’re telling me I shoot 4iu of this stuff? What if I do not get it all out of there ?

I thought you would never ask. I have found the best way to get it and even measure my LR3 is like this. First draw out 30iu of B12 or BW (bacteriostatic water) on the dot. Then draw your LR3 out for a total of 34iu. This means you have 4iu of LR3 in the end of your syringe. Shoot out all of it and that way you can be sure all of the LR3 is out and into your desired muscle of choice.

Reconstitution.
RedBaron has a great thread on reconstitution with AA (acetic acid), check it out here.
But just about always you do not have to worry about reconstituting it yourself. All of the manufacturers usually suspend their LR3 in either BA or AA for you.

Storage
The stability of a liquid solution of LR3IGF-I was monitored for a period of two years at storage conditions of -20 C, +4 C, +22 C, and +37 C. The final concentration of LR3IGF-I was in acetic acid. At various time points, samples were taken and compared to a lyophilized control (stored at 4 C). Listed below are the stability results for each respective storage condition.

Storage Condition: -20 C (-4 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 2 years
Immunological Activity No Change up to 2 years
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 2 years
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 2 years

Storage Condition: +4 C (39.2 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 2 years
Immunological Activity No Change up to 2 years
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 2 years
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 2 years

Storage Condition: +22 C (71.6 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 2 years
Immunological Activity No Change up to 2 years
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 2 years
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 2 years

Storage Condition: +37 C (98.6 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 1 year
Immunological Activity No Change up to 1 year
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 1 year
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 1 year
In conclusion
There is no significant difference in the potency of LR3IGF-I associated with the storage of the liquid formulation when stored at this range of temperatures. There is no evidence for loss of biological activity at any of the tested temperatures when stored as a liquid product. As you can see IGF can be quite stable for even a year at room temp, but if you want to keep it around for a while stick it into the fridge. So IMO the best way to store LR3 that is suspended in BA is in the freezer. The BA wont allow it to freeze. And if you have it suspended in AA, store it in the fridge.

 

[Gavin Kane]

I have probably done more igf cycles than just about any guy here. I have tried every method possible and after doing all this research I have come to a few conclusions.

Igf does not need to be in high dosages. More is definitely not better. Igf is very synergistic when used in conjunction with androgens more so than anabolics. Igf has a very short half life, shorter than most initial studies show, new studies are more accurate.

I have done the standard 50-60mcg ed for 6 weeks. Tried a 12 week cycle. Did a 4 week on, 4 week off. Did really high doses at 200mcg per day. Tried high dose 3 times per week post workout, etc. As I said I have tried them all.

Here is what I have come up with based on my research and using my body as a guinee pig. Since igf has a very short half life, many injections are needed. Igf can saturate cells quickly, thereby necessitating an irregular schedule to prevent downregulation of the cells. Low doses work better.

Look at it this way, part of the reason gh works in an anabolic state is the small conversion to igf. This conversion is much smaller than the amounts we inject. Igf has a very small chain structure not unlike insulin. You can become resistant similar to insulin use, therefore, infrequent dosing is best.

Here is what I am currently doing and getting better results than my first igf cycle when I had virgin receptors. I am taking 60mcg per day spread out into 4 shots. I inject 2 muscle groups per day each side with 15mcg for a total of 60mcg for the day. I too, have noticed localized growth, whether it is anectodal or not. So I do 15mcg in one bicep before breakfast. 4 hours later I do the other bicep with 15mcg. 4 hours later I do a delt with 15mcg and then 4 hours after that I do my last inject with 15mcg in the other delt.

I only do this 3 times per week so I can keep my receptors fresh, prevent saturation and downregulation and optimize my dosages without needing to use ever increasing doses. I do 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off, though theoritically and I have yet to test this, I should be able to do at least a 20 week cycle because of the minimal downregulation.

I came up with this theory after talking to some pro's (some post here, you know who you are) and talking with other about insulin and minimal cycling theories about slin. Since igf is such a similar structure, following a less is more approach has brought on fantastic results.

Try it and let me know how well it works for you. I am always looking for more guinee pigs in my research studies.
AP

 

[Vander_V]

yes, 40mcg per arm. and yes it seems to increase localized growth where its injected but your whole body will respond.

Why wouldnt you shoot the muscle that you just trained? if its a chest day shoot up the chest ect.

 

[edge250]

very interesting almost pro, would like to try that but with a normal job injecting 4 times per day would be conflicting, since its only 3x per week maybe i could just try it on my days off. vander i focused on biceps because that was the area i wanted to bring up the most.

 

[Gavin Kane]

very interesting almost pro, would like to try that but with a normal job injecting 4 times per day would be conflicting, since its only 3x per week maybe i could just try it on my days off. vander i focused on biceps because that was the area i wanted to bring up the most.

Lol, you guys and your normal jobs. Well I guess you could pre-load the syringes and keep them in a traveling insulin pack, the kind that has the cooler packs in it. You can get one at a pharmacy for about $12 and then keep it on ice all day. Or you can use the work fridge if you have one and again keep them in a diabetic pack. Just grab a syringe and use it in the bathroom. Not sure anyone would notice but then again, never had a normal job like the rest of you guys, haha.

 

[basskiller]

Why wouldnt you shoot the muscle that you just trained? if its a chest day shoot up the chest ect.

some do just that while other find the pump to intense

 

[basskiller]

Coopie some things should be taken into consideration.. like other items used with your cycle.. namely slin and or GH.
Doses are effected and dosing times.
I haven't tried slin with it but I have done GH and Igf at the same time.
Gh in the am and IGF post w/o
I made the mistake of doing both right after each other and my feet swelled up like ballons..That was freaky.

I've been through about 20mgs of this so far and waiting on a new batch of lyophilized igf
Funny part about this drug..From what I've seen you either love it or hate it.Some say it did nothing for them. It could be that they got ahold of some bad or outdated or ruined IGF...who knows

 

[n4dmoney]

Almost Pro,

I will try this approach on my next IGF run in about a month or so. I'll keep you posted.

I've had good results running it like this:

Week 1: 40 mcgs
Week 2: 60 mcgs
Week 3: 80 mcgs
Week 4: 100 mcgs
Week 5: 120 Mcgs

IM - always quads

 

[Gavin Kane]

Almost Pro,

I will try this approach on my next IGF run in about a month or so. I'll keep you posted.

I've had good results running it like this:

Week 1: 40 mcgs
Week 2: 60 mcgs
Week 3: 80 mcgs
Week 4: 100 mcgs
Week 5: 120 Mcgs

IM - always quads

I too had good results trying it with a very similar cycle. But after reading over 130 peer reviewed research articles about igf, I knew there must be a better way. We know so very little about it at this time, we are just in the beginning, much like gh in the 80's and slin in the 90's. I was one of the very first to take and report on Humalog in the late 90's.

I have done so much research, I know you will get great results with a cycle like that, but at what cost? I firmly believe you can get the same or better results at a much lower cost by doing a 5 week cycle but never having to go over the 60mcg because of the timing issues.

Give me theory a try and let me know how it goes for you. At worst you have similar results but saved a ton of money, god knows igf is friggen expensive.

 

[n4dmoney]

I will definitely give it a go and keep you guys posted.

I like the less, more often approach. Works perfect with my 3x a week training too. Love the Ironman HIT approach when trying to gain mass....I digress

 

[Big Ian]

Some excellent new info there AP

I'm going to be doing my very first cycle next week & would dearly love to try that schedule but with my work it would be impossible as others have said. Do you think twice a day 3 times a week would still be okay. ie. once first thing in the morning & once as soon as getting home from work?

 

[Coopie]

Some excellent new info there AP

I'm going to be doing my very first cycle next week & would dearly love to try that schedule but with my work it would be impossible as others have said. Do you think twice a day 3 times a week would still be okay. ie. once first thing in the morning & once as soon as getting home from work?

That's what I was thinking... Since I work out early AM I was going to do 1 shot post workout and another shot before bed. Almost Pro - would this be a good protocol?

Also, what size pin do you all use for IM IGF? 1/2" SLIN PIN?

 

[Big Bapper]

I have probably done more igf cycles than just about any guy here. I have tried every method possible and after doing all this research I have come to a few conclusions.

Igf does not need to be in high dosages. More is definitely not better. Igf is very synergistic when used in conjunction with androgens more so than anabolics. Igf has a very short half life, shorter than most initial studies show, new studies are more accurate.

I have done the standard 50-60mcg ed for 6 weeks. Tried a 12 week cycle. Did a 4 week on, 4 week off. Did really high doses at 200mcg per day. Tried high dose 3 times per week post workout, etc. As I said I have tried them all.

Here is what I have come up with based on my research and using my body as a guinee pig. Since igf has a very short half life, many injections are needed. Igf can saturate cells quickly, thereby necessitating an irregular schedule to prevent downregulation of the cells. Low doses work better.

Look at it this way, part of the reason gh works in an anabolic state is the small conversion to igf. This conversion is much smaller than the amounts we inject. Igf has a very small chain structure not unlike insulin. You can become resistant similar to insulin use, therefore, infrequent dosing is best.

Here is what I am currently doing and getting better results than my first igf cycle when I had virgin receptors. I am taking 60mcg per day spread out into 4 shots. I inject 2 muscle groups per day each side with 15mcg for a total of 60mcg for the day. I too, have noticed localized growth, whether it is anectodal or not. So I do 15mcg in one bicep before breakfast. 4 hours later I do the other bicep with 15mcg. 4 hours later I do a delt with 15mcg and then 4 hours after that I do my last inject with 15mcg in the other delt.

I only do this 3 times per week so I can keep my receptors fresh, prevent saturation and downregulation and optimize my dosages without needing to use ever increasing doses. I do 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off, though theoritically and I have yet to test this, I should be able to do at least a 20 week cycle because of the minimal downregulation.

I came up with this theory after talking to some pro's (some post here, you know who you are) and talking with other about insulin and minimal cycling theories about slin. Since igf is such a similar structure, following a less is more approach has brought on fantastic results.

Try it and let me know how well it works for you. I am always looking for more guinee pigs in my research studies.
AP

I am starting my first run of IGF on Monday and will try the 60mcg taken in 15mcg shots IM 4xday, 3 days per week. I am also using GH at 12iu EOD. What would be the best times of the day to use my GH ??

 

[edge250]

almost pro since the injections are very small are you using more dilutent for the igf to provide a more volumous injection

 

[Gavin Kane]

If you cannot do the 4x per day schedule because of work restrictions then by all means go with 2x per day, once in the am and once pwo. Try to coincide at least one of your injects right after your workout, preferably in the muscle just trained. You can even split up that pwo injection into two shots to hit each muscle equally.

I personnally take my gh on a similar 3x per week schedule doing one weeks worth of dosage in those 3 days. So instead of taking 6iu per day, I take 15iu pwo 3x per week. This is not an optimal way for those looking for fat loss, but for a lot of guys who have tried this protocol with me, the lean mass gains are far superior to the daily inject method.

Since I work out M, W, F I just take my igf on those days, with gh on those days as well. I would recommend if you take igf two times per day to make sure one of those times is pwo with your gh. The best method of taking gh is right after your workout, immediately, and then take the igf 20-30 mins after that.

The reason is that gh has a peak 1/2 life of about 16-19 mins depending on which report you read and since it has a conversion to igf near the end of that peak, you should inject your igf at this time to sort of super-charge your igf accumulation.

Now mind you, most of this is mere speculation by me during my research and studies, tested on me and some of my clients and found to work. I can't say this is gospel, nor do I have anything more to back it up than my empirical evidence but I am always researching and passing along things to you guys so you can try it and give me honest feedback. I am a scientist by trade and this is what I do.

Anyway, for the volume of igf recon I use 4cc per 1000mcg to I can have some additional water at time of inject since 15mcg is such a small amount.

I hope I answered all the questions, but keep shooting them at me so I can make sure you guys are covered.