IGF Questions

[Big Bapper]

Can I use sterile water to reconstitute my IGF ??

 

[Juice Freak]

Edge, I was thinking about this too, I think I'm going to try the MGF on non workout days multiple times throughout the day to maximize the number of myoblasts available for the next day with causing the problem of running the igf with mgf on the same day.

 

[HELLA SWOLE]

Can I use sterile water to reconstitute my IGF ??

NO!!! It will ruin it...only use water to dilute your IGF INSIDE THE SYRINGE!! Use acetic acid to reconstitute it.

 

[Big Bapper]

Thanks

 

[w8tlifterty]

what's your guys opinion on using igf precontest, like the month leading up to the show...I always stay full and very vascular on igf even when dieting hard so just wondering your opinions on running a 4 or 5 week cycle leading right up to the show and how might you run it....
thanks in advance, have a good 4th fellas

 

[finephysique]

Hell yes. Slin is the last key and link in the massive synergistic effect of androgens, gh, and igf. Slin is what will modulate and mediate all the sensitivity issues from gh and igf. Slin is also best used in moderate doses in very infrequent injection schedules.

Ask Milos or Chad, we all have the same theory and conclusion that it is way to easy to overstimulate insulin receptors and cause insensitivity, quickly. Therefore, Chad recommends only using once or twice per week, Milos a little bit more often.

I personally use slin 3 times per week, again on M, W, F workout days. I used to take it 3 times per day at 20iu per inject when competing but now only do 15-20iu pwo. I time it with my cocktail of pwo gh and igf. I take the gh immediately after training, take the igf 20 mins later and then 10 mins later have the humalog with a dextrose and whey shake.

Very simple and you are still getting maximum nutrition within your peak window because the shake is only 1/2 hour after training and then I have an easily digestible meal one hour after that.

Thanks for all the top quality info AP. When you are talking about IGF do you mean regular IGF or the LR3 version?

I personally have only used LR3 and when using it along with slin it brought on hypo attacks very easily even when taking in 300 grams of carbs on one occasion.

 

[Gavin Kane]

AP, I'm not sure if you remember me but we first chatted on Bolex when you helped me out with my first HGH and IGF cycle. Just to let you know, because of your help, I was able to step on stage at 239 lbs... about 30 lbs heavier than last year!... and in similar condition. I placed 2nd in my class... I lost because I screwed up my water manipulation, but it's all good, I've learned my lesson and next year I plan to come in at 250 lbs... and shredded!

So, thanks a lot for your help! And it's because of this great advice that I encourage everyone to listen to what AP has to say! He gives sound advice and would not suggest anything he hasn't tried himself. And from his pic, he knows what he's doing.

Now, back to the question(s) at hand.

AP, I'm on PCT right now, but I'm planning to start up the HGH and IGF again in about 2 months. This time I also plan on adding slin to the mix to finally get fukkin huge! And after reading this thread, I will be trying these "new" protocols for the HGH, IGF, slin. But like before, I want to make certain I have a good understanding of what you have laid out.

So, as I understand it:
HGH - 3 x wk, 15iu pwo (to maximize muscle gains) vs 4/6iu per day (to maximize fat loss - best for pre-comp)

IGF - 3 x wk, 60 mcg/day (15iu x 4)... 15mcg upon wake up... the following 3 x 15mcg inj's spaced out every 4 hrs... and re-con with 4 ml acetic acid to help measurements.... pwo inj taken 20-30 min after HGH inj.

Slin - 3 x wk, since I've never used slin I start with 2iu pwo... go up 1iu per usage until reach 20iu peak?... use the fastest acting slin you can get... humalog?... taken 10 min after IGF inj.... then consume whey iso protein with dextrose (10g per iu?) right away.

Now, if the above is correct, then I have a few questions:

1. If I workout 4, 5, or 6 x wk, then do I still stick the 3 x wk protocol? Or did you pick 3 x wk because you only workout 3 x wk?

2. Could I inj IGF twice per day?... in the am upon wake up after the HGH inj and then pwo... each being 15mcg x 2 shot bi-laterally, so I still get the 60mcg/day total? I'm speculating that I would get a bigger influx of IGF pwo with the larger dosage (2x day) then with the more frequent inj protocol (4x day). Or is the constant supply of IGF (4x day injs) more important to it's effetiveness than a larger pwo surge?

3. Is slin inj'd sub-q or IM?

Sorry for the long post, but this is very interesting stuff and I really like the 3 x wk protocol and I want to try it. I just want to make sure I understand all the elements of it.

Thanks,
MR

Hey bro, congrats on the comp, that is very impressive to say the least! I remember you quite well bro, I like to keep track of the guys I help out. Anyway, to answer some of your questions, in using my igf theory I believe multiple small amounts are more beneficial when taken in one day with at least a day off between injects. I have found that my body reacts better to smaller amounts more frequently, I believe it is possible that you are not oversaturating the cell at one time.

You still stick with the 3 day a week protocol with a day spaced in between all injects because you want the cells to stay "fresh" so to speak. The whole point is trying to prevent overstimulation of the cell so that it does not downregulate. It doesn't matter how many times per week you train, the important thing is to let your cells have some downtime.

I use humalog for all my slin injects to I don't have to worry about a re-peak 4 hours later. I like knowing when it has cleared my system since I train at 6pm and would like to get to bed early some nights, dang kids wear me out, lol. Do all igf injects IM, I do my gh IM as well because of the brand I use but my slin is always sub-q right by my navel. Chart times for slin are based on sub-q so I know how my body will react.

Take care bro and shoot over any questions you still have.

 

[Gavin Kane]

what's your guys opinion on using igf precontest, like the month leading up to the show...I always stay full and very vascular on igf even when dieting hard so just wondering your opinions on running a 4 or 5 week cycle leading right up to the show and how might you run it....
thanks in advance, have a good 4th fellas

I didn't have the luxury of LR3 when I was competing but I highly recommend using it up to about 3 days out.

 

[Gavin Kane]

Thanks for all the top quality info AP. When you are talking about IGF do you mean regular IGF or the LR3 version?

I personally have only used LR3 and when using it along with slin it brought on hypo attacks very easily even when taking in 300 grams of carbs on one occasion.

Always receptor grade LR3. Some people are highly sensitive to the reaction with slin, some are not. You have to start really low, around 2-3iu to see how you react and then go from there.

I highly recommend you guys buy the BD glucose tabs. They taste really good and are very handy to have if you go hypo.

 

[Gavin Kane]

Interesting how people always speak of "receptor" down grade with IGF-1.
I am not sure of the duration that growth defecient children recieve in human grade IGF-1 (INCRELEX), but the dosage is incredibly high compared to what BB'ers are taking. The package insert says 40-80 mcg PER KG of bodyweight administered twice a day.
(A 50 kg (100 lb child) would be given 4-800 mcgs per day by that dosing scheme.
As AP mentioned half life has nothing to do with results with GH.
Insulin is one thing that I think the body blunts rather quickly too-so it shouldn't be used everyday.

Infrequent administration is best. Over the years I have seen many posts on kids injecting GH 4-6 times a day, crazy shit like people recomending "mainlining GH" and shit like that.

IGF-1 I have never experimented with and don't know if I will because of the increased cancer risk associated with it's use. (if you are prone to cancer).

Good to see you on here AP you are a wealth of knowledge and back most of it up with real world EXPERIENCE.

Hey MG, it is awesome to see you here. Thanks for the props bro, I have really been trying so many new things. I try to share everything as I figure it out.

 

[Gavin Kane]

AP,

As you say people aren't getting the fat loss on the 3 x per week GH protocol I assume this would stand true for your IGF protocol also?

Yeah, guys are not experiencing the same type of fat loss with a typical long term gh protocol. I haven't really looked into the reasons too much but I know it isn't happening. I don't know too many guys that are getting fat loss from IGF alone, I know the vascularity increases are insane but no so much for fat loss so I don't think it will affect it one way or the other.

 

[HELLA SWOLE]

I didn't have the luxury of LR3 when I was competing but I highly recommend using it up to about 3 days out.

Why would you recommend dropping it 3 days out??

 

[Gavin Kane]

almost pro how would you incorporate mgf into this mix. thanks

I am sorry bro but to be honest this is something I have not yet tried or gotten into with my research.

 

[Gavin Kane]

Why would you recommend dropping it 3 days out??

I drop everything about 3 days out when I hit my diuretics really hard so I can wring out every last drop of water. I used to have a very hard time drying out completely (just look at my pics I posted) so I stopped everything in timing stages so I could eliminate any variables that might make me hold water. Not everyone is the same, this is just my recommendation bro.

 

[Big Bapper]

Hi Almost Pro at what times PWO should I use my Slin/Gh/IGF. I was thinking 15iu slin PWO(sc), 12iu GH(im) when I get home then one of my 15mcg(im) shots 20 mins later. What do you think.

 

[Gavin Kane]

Hi Almost Pro at what times PWO should I use my Slin/Gh/IGF. I was thinking 15iu slin PWO(sc), 12iu GH(im) when I get home then one of my 15mcg(im) shots 20 mins later. What do you think.

The slin is always taken last. There are a lot of reasons why, in fact I will post up my gh article on the board so you can read up why but just know that gh is first, igf next and then slin. Other than that, the protocol looks perfect.

 

[Big Bapper]

Thanks AP looking foward to your GH artical, one question for now. When should I have my PWO drink.

 

[finephysique]

Thanks again AP I will start with alow slin dose and work up.
Do you recommend both IGF and GH to be shot intra-muscular?

 

[Monster Rhino]

Damn, this is great info AP! ... I can't wait to see what's going to happen to me in a couple months when i start this up...

Now, I realize that the final week prep is different for everyone, but I'm very curious to see how you did it. I'd like to see details in regards to carb deplete, carb vs. crap (fat) load, diuretic use, gear use and which products (including HGH, IGF, and slin) you stopped and when leading up to the show, water & sodium manipulations, did u use slin for the carb/crap load, etc.

Once again, your info and advice is greatly appreciated!

... and I'll be sure to keep you posted on how my off season goes as well.

MR

 

[biggreene]

great info AP, will keep you posted on my progress using the protocol we discussed.